Post-Game Talk: Kaned again Jets lose 4-1

[Royale With Cheese]

not watched this game but tonight propably will make my opinions sums up of state of this team at this moment. sourt of makin guest appearance at this team boards for this day. stay in tune. is this ok Writing about this in this thread? ill watching for right Place to write in. no offense no explosion. thanks

ill be back

sir avgard hockeyprofessor

The prodigal son returns...

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

As far as the PP goes, I think the only change to PP1 has been to occasionally switch 55/29. That's not what's wrong with the PP though. The problem is that it's static or very close to that. Watching other teams' PP is mostly very dynamic and creates confusion for the PK. Even teams that don't have the weapon that Laine is, have much more success getting passes to open guys for one timers.

My belief is that Laine isn't scoring on the PP for the past calendar year because of the PP setup and lack of playmaking/passing. I think I asked previously if there was any way of knowing exactly how many really good chances Laine has had to beat the goaltender on the PP from a great pass. It would be interesting to know, because I can't remember even one off hand.

Buf is missed on the powerplay. He was a threat on his own to blast from the point. And he was able to feed Laine with hard passes right in Laine's wheelhouse for the blistering one timer. Now when Laine is occasionally getting a pass from the point, Pionk or whoever, it tends to be a feather soft pass allowing the opposing keeper plenty of time to establish perfect position on the Laine shot.

 

[Jets 31]

First the vengeance guy and now the prosessor is mulling a comeback. You know, some things are just better off staying buried.

Weird how right after we start to get our hearing back now the professor shows up .

 

[grieves]

Huh, I thought Scheifele's line was pretty damn good. Lehner robbed them multiple times. Keep playing like that and they'll score a lot.

Excellent line offensively but defensively that line was not good enough and seems to be a weak link. They bleed a lot of chances and in our zone the best defensive player is Laine who is merely ok (Laine has good forecheck, backcheck, and neutral zone play though).

Just switch Connor and Perreault and I think we are a lot better. Or something similar like that. Connor on the Lowry line could do some serious, serious damage and boost his linemates numbers as well because they are are a good possession line with limited finishing ability. The first line can handle being a little less offensive if they take a big step forward in the defensive zone.

Then just figure out the special teams and things will be looking a lot better. We should be a top team on the PP so there is a lot of work to do.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I not giving up on the year because of a bad week, considering I thought that the team would take a step back this year for obvious reasons I welcome any playoff position. Agreed, we match up well against Pacific teams (at least the ones that we make the playoffs )

Absolutely. I get excited for every game and always have a renewed sense of optimism each time..... Yeah, I know I'm weird like that

We have many bright spots on the team, and obviously quite a few very important injuries that would make us a completely different team.

The only time I'm really bothered is lack of effort (like how we seem to start games recently), or lack of seemingly obvious changes that could help us win a game (like our PP which everyone knows is a problem, and when you need a goal down near the end of a game, load up a line as in switching ehlers and KC).

Winning is more fun that losing, and the only frustrating part is not being able to be a fly on the wall of the planning of our special teams.

Other than that, I'm already looking forward to the next game.

 

[DRW204]

How would you folks think a ehlers-wheeler-Laine line look? I think wheeler has been playing the position of C better than scheifele over the past few games, and we all know ehlers is our best 5v5 forward... Or is that to many players that allegedly Laine cannot play with on the same line

 

[Jets 31]

If i remember right the professor hated Buff , never passed to Laine maybe he's making a comeback because he has inside info that Buff will be back .

 

[kanadalainen]

Hey!

not watched this game but tonight propably will make my opinions sums up of state of this team at this moment. sourt of makin guest appearance at this team boards for this day. stay in tune. is this ok Writing about this in this thread? ill watching for right Place to write in. no offense no explosion. thanks

ill be back

sir avgard hockeyprofessor

Avgard,

Great to see you back here. Missed your inventive invective, not to mention your highly original and creative posts. Post away - its all good! Best of the holidays to you man.

- Kanadalainen

 

[Neuf]

Someone in the canes thread has a theory on who avgard was...

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Someone in the canes thread has a theory on who avgard was...

Do tell.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Absolutely. I get excited for every game and always have a renewed sense of optimism each time..... Yeah, I know I'm weird like that

If you can bottle that, I'll pay for some.

 

[grieves]

How would you folks think a ehlers-wheeler-Laine line look? I think wheeler has been playing the position of C better than scheifele over the past few games, and we all know ehlers is our best 5v5 forward... Or is that to many players that allegedly Laine cannot play with on the same line

IMHO cannot touch the second line right now. Tinker with everything else first and only if nothing works, touch the second line. That formation would dislodge Roslo so it would be Connor-Chef-Roslo, and they would be murdered defensively even more. First line just needs a defense guy with a couple of offensive maniacs, now we have 3 offensive maniacs on that line. It might even be overkill to have 3 maniacs on one line in any case. Third line could use a maniac with the defensive beasts to improve their goal output.

I think Ehlers is the only player right now that could be considered a maniac and a d-beast at the same time (honorable mention to Wheeler who has really taken his center role and ran with it, just fantastic). Laine is slowly getting there. Chef is a little bit of a disappointment in that area, but his offensive game 5v5 and on the PP is excellent, so it's kind of cool although I think he has it in him to improve the d-side.

 

[kanadalainen]

Absolutely. I get excited for every game and always have a renewed sense of optimism each time..... Yeah, I know I'm weird like that

We have many bright spots on the team, and obviously quite a few very important injuries that would make us a completely different team.

Viewed on a wider scale, this is a treatise on how to live life. Cheers my friend.

 

[Roughneck1]

Huh, I thought Scheifele's line was pretty damn good. Lehner robbed them multiple times. Keep playing like that and they'll score a lot.

They were good in the offensive zone but sucked in the d-zone. Lost too manny pucks along the walls, that is if they even tried as they were waiting around for the puck to come to them.

 

[Heldig]

We've been playing over our heads all season.

Scheif needs to pay attention to details, which is something I thought I would never say about him. His defensive play is not where it needs to be. That top line is elite offensively but bleeds scoring chances against. Ehlers is the best forward on this team right now imo.

Helle wasn't bad but we need .930 Helle to make the playoffs.

Scheifele has been cheating in the defensive zone for 2 seasons now.

 

[DRW204]

IMHO cannot touch the second line right now. Tinker with everything else first and only if nothing works, touch the second line. That formation would dislodge Roslo so it would be Connor-Chef-Roslo, and they would be murdered defensively even more. First line just needs a defense guy with a couple of offensive maniacs, now we have 3 offensive maniacs on that line. It might even be overkill to have 3 maniacs on one line in any case. Third line could use a maniac with the defensive beasts to improve their goal output.

I think Ehlers is the only player right now that could be considered a maniac and a d-beast at the same time (honorable mention to Wheeler who has really taken his center role and ran with it, just fantastic). Laine is slowly getting there. Chef is a little bit of a disappointment in that area, but his offensive game 5v5 and on the PP is excellent, so it's kind of cool although I think he has it in him to improve the d-side.

fair point, the 2nd line is probably the least of my worries. was just gathering opinions

id rather have one of perreault/ehlers/copp on that top line to help a bit more defensively/possession to that line. there's lots of finish ability on there already with Scheifele and Laine. However, evidently 2/3 of those aforementioned players are out with injuries and Ehlers is on the 2nd line. I agree, CSL is not great defensively but they can finish with the best of them on most nights which could mask their deficiencies.

the 2nd line atm is strong in the shot share (both in quantity CF%, and quality xGF%), I think a strong finisher such as Laine over Roslovic could help convert more of the scoring opportunities into goals (if Laine remembers he has that shot lol). I think Ehlers and Wheeler are good enough to drive that line offensively/defensively, and then add Laine as an adept finisher. Roslovic is a strong playmaker and stick handler to enable zone entries, but i don't think his shot is a threat at all. That line scoring at a 2.71 gf/60 rate [9GF, 4GA in 199 mins] which seems a tad low at first glance however i don't have league wide comparisons to really rank it (unfortunately corsica's line tool doesn't work). It's not like Ehlers hasn't had success playing with Laine; ESL, ESL2.0 were both great lines.

I am guessing you think Roslovic is a liability in possession stats/defensively? some of his on-ice shot share statistics might be propped up playing with ehlers and wheeler, however, RAPM (which isolates individual from linemates) rates him favorable in CF and CA. I think Rosie could be a Perreault-esque on the RW.

Lastly, id consider playing the Wheeler line more than the Scheifele line at 5v5.

 

[grieves]

fair point, the 2nd line is probably the least of my worries. was just gathering opinions

id rather have one of perreault/ehlers/copp on that top line to help a bit more defensively/possession to that line. there's lots of finish ability on there already with Scheifele and Laine. However, evidently 2/3 of those aforementioned players are out with injuries and Ehlers is on the 2nd line. I agree, CSL is not great defensively but they can finish with the best of them on most nights which could mask their deficiencies.

the 2nd line atm is strong in the shot share (both in quantity CF%, and quality xGF%), I think a strong finisher such as Laine over Roslovic could help convert more of the scoring opportunities into goals (if Laine remembers he has that shot lol). I think Ehlers and Wheeler are good enough to drive that line offensively/defensively, and then add Laine as an adept finisher. Roslovic is a strong playmaker and stick handler to enable zone entries, but i don't think his shot is a threat at all. That line scoring at a 2.71 gf/60 rate [9GF, 4GA in 199 mins] which seems a tad low at first glance however i don't have league wide comparisons to really rank it (unfortunately corsica's line tool doesn't work). It's not like Ehlers hasn't had success playing with Laine; ESL, ESL2.0 were both great lines.

I am guessing you think Roslovic is a liability in possession stats/defensively? some of his on-ice shot share statistics might be propped up playing with ehlers and wheeler, however, RAPM (which isolates individual from linemates) rates him favorable in CF and CA. I think Rosie could be a Perreault-esque on the RW.

Lastly, id consider playing the Wheeler line more than the Scheifele line at 5v5.

Good stuff.

Honestly, I don't have a good picture of what Roslo actually is as a player. I think I've been undervaluing him severely and I'm not sure what I should replace that image with. I know Ehlers and Wheeler are doing really good things defensively on that line and I guess I'm just assuming Roslo is the "bad-d, good-o" guy on that line. He seems to have very good chemistry with Ehlers and Wheeler. I'm just really hesitant to touch the Wheeler line. It's really a 1a+1b situation with the top lines currently so I think they should played as much. I'm hesitant to overplay Wheeler because he seems to improve with a slightly limited workload (which is to be expected at his age).

I'm probably going against the grain here a little bit but I've never been a major fan of Ehlers and Laine together (not that they have been bad when centered with Scheifele, but it seems that it was more Chef+Laine, and Chef+Ehlers on that line) and it seems to me that the second line is just too good to touch right now regardless. Perreault and Copp are indeed injured right now so maybe the right answer currently is to do something completely crazy with the Connor swap. Or just wait for Copp and Perreault to get better. Not a bad time for the Christmas break in that regard.

I think currently the first line could use some D and the third could use some O. If you replace Laine on the first, you take away some D from there which is not optimal. They need clearly more D, not a little bit more. That is what she said.

Third has plenty of D and first has plenty of O so I think it's a natural place to start. It's not like the first line is bad based on their overall results because they have insane scoring, but the team-balance could be even better.

Do you think Roslo is good defensively as a player? I really don't notice him in the d-zone but for sure do in the o-zone, especially the tic-tac-toe plays with full speed.

(super long post, sorry about that. Posting a bit more frequently recently since I have a bit more free time for the time being)

 

[Mbraunm]

Power Play is completely static. So surprised that at the NHL level, a power play could be so amateurish. Quite unbelievable.

 

[tbcwpg]

Power Play is completely static. So surprised that at the NHL level, a power play could be so amateurish. Quite unbelievable.

Better amateurish than the peewee level power plays of the 11 teams below the Jets in PP%.

 

[Sperss1997]

Laine has been the only player on the first line to play a consistent 200 foot game and is ppg. Connor is a disaster defensively and also weak along the boards, and has easily the worst playmaking ability in out top 6. Chef wakes up when the puck is in the offensive zone, but seems half asleep and totally uninterested in the defensive part of the game. Yet you single out Laine as the weak link, because how he looks out there? There are tons of stats showing that Laine is way above an average player, and his accomplishments speak for themself.

Is Laine the only player who loses pucks along the boards? Has Laine been worse on defense than Connor or Chef this season? Has Laine lacked hustle along the boards? Hasn’t Laine been able to use his big body succesfully to shield the puck and keep posession and deliver crisp passes in the o-zone? Connor has been worse in all those areas this season.

funny to hear Laine fanboys use advanced stats in his defense. Things has gone up side down - good for you

Laine has been a lot better alround so far this season. He has been great and he has also had a little puck luck, but when you work hard that will come to you at some point. He has struggled defensively since CSL was introduced. The reason could be that Connor with his poor defensive game (and Scheifs too), put Laine in situations he is not comfortable with. Focusing hard on his defensive game is after all a relatively new and difficult (i guess) thing for Laine, and it might not be healthy to let him play with defensively weaklings when he is supposed to learn that part of the game. I am guessing here, but it is certainly plausible.

I know that CSL create chances and they are usually very good at scoring on their chances. Problem is they allow a LOT more chances that they create and aince they play versus the other team’s best for 33%+ of the teams 5v5 minutes night in and night out, you are destined to be beaten in the long run, because guess what - the other teams best are elite scorers as well. You rely on that your goalie saves your butt. Helly has done this so far - will probably not last.

WPG has the worst xG ratio in the division, and close to bottom in the league.

If WPG qualify for the playoff, Helly wins the Vezina

I would definitely put KC on the third line and try a guy like Perrault on the Scheif line. Keep the Wheeler line as it is.

You cannot let a guy like KC play other teams best a third of the game.

 

[DRW204]

Good stuff.

Honestly, I don't have a good picture of what Roslo actually is as a player. I think I've been undervaluing him severely and I'm not sure what I should replace that image with. I know Ehlers and Wheeler are doing really good things defensively on that line and I guess I'm just assuming Roslo is the "bad-d, good-o" guy on that line. He seems to have very good chemistry with Ehlers and Wheeler. I'm just really hesitant to touch the Wheeler line. It's really a 1a+1b situation with the top lines currently so I think they should played as much. I'm hesitant to overplay Wheeler because he seems to improve with a slightly limited workload (which is to be expected at his age).

I'm probably going against the grain here a little bit but I've never been a major fan of Ehlers and Laine together (not that they have been bad when centered with Scheifele, but it seems that it was more Chef+Laine, and Chef+Ehlers on that line) and it seems to me that the second line is just too good to touch right now regardless. Perreault and Copp are indeed injured right now so maybe the right answer currently is to do something completely crazy with the Connor swap. Or just wait for Copp and Perreault to get better. Not a bad time for the Christmas break in that regard.

I think currently the first line could use some D and the third could use some O. If you replace Laine on the first, you take away some D from there which is not optimal. They need clearly more D, not a little bit more. That is what she said.

Third has plenty of D and first has plenty of O so I think it's a natural place to start. It's not like the first line is bad based on their overall results because they have insane scoring, but the team-balance could be even better.

Do you think Roslo is good defensively as a player? I really don't notice him in the d-zone but for sure do in the o-zone, especially the tic-tac-toe plays with full speed.

(super long post, sorry about that. Posting a bit more frequently recently since I have a bit more free time for the time being)

i've tried to follow Roslovic on that 2nd line a lot in whenever im at games live - which has been 4 i believe - since that line has been put together. I don't think he's a liability at all on that line defensively. He's obviously not Selke level but i am also not expecting him to be stalwart at his age and inexperience in a top 6 role, but overall i think he's not subtracting anything from that line defensively which is key. Perhaps not noticing Roslovic in the dzone means he ain't doing anything noteworthy in a negative manner

Who would you swap Connor with? it's either Ehlers or someone in the bottom 6. I don't think anyone in the bottom 6 currently be of any help on that top line since Copp and Perreault are out. Id be a proponent of Ehlers on the top line, but then again, you're tinkering with the 2nd line. I think Wheeler has done well at C, but playing with Ehlers helps a lot to i bet. What would the net results be to the top 6 from a Connor and Ehlers swap?

 

[grieves]

i've tried to follow Roslovic on that 2nd line a lot in whenever im at games live - which has been 4 i believe - since that line has been put together. I don't think he's a liability at all on that line defensively. He's obviously not Selke level but i am also not expecting him to be stalwart at his age and inexperience in a top 6 role, but overall i think he's not subtracting anything from that line defensively which is key. Perhaps not noticing Roslovic in the dzone means he ain't doing anything noteworthy in a negative manner

Who would you swap Connor with? it's either Ehlers or someone in the bottom 6. I don't think anyone in the bottom 6 currently be of any help on that top line since Copp and Perreault are out. Id be a proponent of Ehlers on the top line, but then again, you're tinkering with the 2nd line. I think Wheeler has done well at C, but playing with Ehlers helps a lot to i bet. What would the net results be to the top 6 from a Connor and Ehlers swap?

Yes, could be that Roslo is actually good defensively. I will put my hands up in that regard.

I think Ehlers is the one player that can make any line tick right now. He did that with the CSW -> ESW swap and right now all of Ehlers, Wheeler, and Roslo is playing amazingly good hockey and having those guys kick ass is a big boon to the team. I just don't want to mess with their mojo (I'm repeating myself) just to have that line reassembled once Copp/Perreault is back.

About who to replace Connor with, I don't have a good answer. I don't understand the bottom-six at all because of all the new faces. The best defensive bottom-6 winger we have currently, whoever that may be could be the answer. Or just maybe do nothing until we get reinforcements (maybe hit Perreault with a 2x4 in the head for an anti-concussion remedy for faster recovery).

For instance, this game wasn't that bad. They wrecked us in the third period and we had a couple of stupid blunders and we can't convert on the PP anymore. 5v5 was slightly in the Jets favor even with the bad third period.

 

[DRW204]

Yes, could be that Roslo is actually good defensively. I will put my hands up in that regard.

I think Ehlers is the one player that can make any line tick right now. He did that with the CSW -> ESW swap and right now all of Ehlers, Wheeler, and Roslo is playing amazingly good hockey and having those guys kick ass is a big boon to the team. I just don't want to mess with their mojo (I'm repeating myself) just to have that line reassembled once Copp/Perreault is back.

About who to replace Connor with, I don't have a good answer. I don't understand the bottom-six at all because of all the new faces. The best defensive bottom-6 winger we have currently, whoever that may be could be the answer. Or just maybe do nothing until we get reinforcements (maybe hit Perreault with a 2x4 in the head for an anti-concussion remedy for faster recovery).

For instance, this game wasn't that bad. They wrecked us in the third period and we had a couple of stupid blunders and we can't convert on the PP anymore. 5v5 was slightly in the Jets favor even with the bad third period.

Yeah I think we were playing well for lots of the game. I don't think we need to do anything drastic, but just wondering what ppl thought.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don’t know if it makes Roslo good defensively but he pick pockets so many guys. They have it, nope now Roslo has it. It’s like he’s invisible.

 

[grieves]

Yeah I think we were playing well for lots of the game. I don't think we need to do anything drastic, but just wondering what ppl thought.

It was an awesome wonderment because it also had me wondering about many things. I think it was a good thought experiment by you, and really talking about stuff like this is how you sort out your own thoughts as well so cool beans man.

I think the doomsayers are wrong about this team currently. We just need a few things to click to get this team to the next level. The D sucks (but not as badly as people thought) but we could seriously have two top lines of the league with a few moves, and the PP is nowhere near what it can be. The third line could also have much improved goal output as well.