Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Nobody wants KK to flourish more than our management and coaches. What would they gain by him not producing? Why would they be out to get him but not out to get Laf, Chytil, Will, Fox, Schneider, or KAM?

I guess? Sure doesnt look like it.

Kakko barely got 8 minutes of ice time last night. Lowest on the team.

Whats the reasoning? I mean he had a stretch where it looked like he was being benched... for what? He's been one of the best defense forwards on the team since hes returned.

What kind of mixed messaging are you sending? As Fly guy said, Wheeler had a PUTRID stretch of games and was still given ample time. No accountability. It would be a miracle if he's on the team next season. It's baffling to me.

Send him out on a few PKs for christ sake. Goodrow has 2 goals in his last 67 games and dont get me started on Bonino

 

[JCProdigy]

So it's not unwillingness, it's incompetence. Good to know nothing changed.

I'm in agreement on incompetence if they saw what we've all been seeing all season and their action in response was to effectively bench Kakko while changing up all the lines to combos that looked worse in game.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I guess? Sure doesnt look like it.

Kakko barely got 8 minutes of ice time last night. Lowest on the team.

Whats the reasoning? I mean he had a stretch where it looked like he was being benched... for what? He's been one of the best defense forwards on the team since hes returned.

What kind of mixed messaging are you sending? As Fly guy said, Wheeler had a PUTRID stretch of games and was still given ample time. No accountability. It would be a miracle if he's on the team next season. It's baffling to me.

Send him out on a few PKs for christ sake. Goodrow has 2 goals in his last 67 games and dont get me started on Bonino

You ask why KK did not play more. The simple answer is I do not know. I am not part of the coaching group. My being there doesn't make me think og Lavi and his assistant coaches do not want KK to flourish. That is not logical. Maybe KK's leg was not feeling great. Maybe the coaches want to light a fire under KK. Maybe the coaches were trying to spark the whole team. All I can do is speculate BUT that last thing I would ever guess is that our coaches do not want KK to do well. That would be like me not wanting my investments to make money. Just is nonsensical.

 

[failure]

Kakko barely got 8 minutes of ice time last night. Lowest on the team.

Whats the reasoning?

Lavi lost him on the bench.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

You ask why KK did not play more. The simple answer is I do not know. I am not part of the coaching group. My being there doesn't make me think og Lavi and his assistant coaches do not want KK to flourish. That is not logical. Maybe KK's leg was not feeling great. Maybe the coaches want to light a fire under KK. Maybe the coaches were trying to spark the whole team. All I can do is speculate BUT that last thing I would ever guess is that our coaches do not want KK to do well. That would be like me not wanting my investments to make money. Just is nonsensical.

I agree, of course the team wants the best but we see a consistent pattern with his usage (or lack thereof).

Maybe they are taking advantage of his quiet and respectful demeanor?

Maybe he wasnt feeling great. Who know knows, but he is always the odd man out.

 

[NickyFotiu]

So it's not unwillingness, it's incompetence. Good to know nothing changed.

I'm so impressed with this board having more compantent coaches than a guy who has won more games than any other USA coach. Also more competent than assistants that were NHL all stars and in the hall of fame. If it is Quinn, Gorton, Drury, Gallant, and Laviolette holding KK from being a great player than the rest of the NHL should see it and be breaking down our door to trade for him just like they were with Kravtsov. Too bad the Rangers were able to convince Tochett not to let Krav flourish either. The entities behind these conspiracies must be so powerful that they get these coaches and NHL teams to go against their own best interests. Who do you think it is behind the master plan to stop KK from being an all star? Besos? Gates? Aliens?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I guess? Sure doesnt look like it.

Kakko barely got 8 minutes of ice time last night. Lowest on the team.

Whats the reasoning? I mean he had a stretch where it looked like he was being benched... for what? He's been one of the best defense forwards on the team since hes returned.

What kind of mixed messaging are you sending? As Fly guy said, Wheeler had a PUTRID stretch of games and was still given ample time. No accountability. It would be a miracle if he's on the team next season. It's baffling to me.

Send him out on a few PKs for christ sake. Goodrow has 2 goals in his last 67 games and dont get me started on Bonino

If Kakko was 33 years old and acquired from another team he’d be getting 20 minutes a night and all situations.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I agree, of course the team wants the best but we see a consistent pattern with his usage (or lack thereof).

Maybe they are taking advantage of his quiet and respectful demeanor?

Maybe he wasnt feeling great. Who know knows, but he is always the odd man out.

Well that is a logical response. I can not say what the reasoning was last night. Nor would I assume the reasoning last night is the same as all the other times KK has played lower minutes in the last 5 seasons. It could be. Or it could just be a individual night thing.

We as fans want KK to play great. Our coaches jobs/money to a small degree depend on KK succeeding. So who do you think wants to see him succeed more?

If Kakko was 33 years old and acquired from another team he’d be getting 20 minutes a night and all situations.

Krav and Lias would be as well. Freaking Aliens master plan to take over the Earth by holding those guys back!

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Well that is a logical response. I can not say what the reasoning was last night. Nor would I assume the reasoning last night is the same as all the other times KK has played lower minutes in the last 5 seasons. It could be. Or it could just be a individual night thing.

We as fans want KK to play great. Our coaches jobs/money to a small degree depend on KK succeeding. So who do you think wants to see him succeed more?


Krav and Lias would be as well. Freaking Aliens master plan to take over the Earth by holding those guys back!

No just backwards, conservative , dinosaur philosophy that has plagued this organization for its entire history.

 

[SA16]

Kakko is 6th on the team in 5v5 TOI/game this year. A whole 40 seconds below Chris Kreider. I'm not really saying a usage issue this year.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Kakko is 6th on the team in 5v5 TOI/game this year. A whole 40 seconds below Chris Kreider. I'm not really saying a usage issue this year.

All the while putting up 4 points in 24 games. I don't know if they really hated him they might not play him that often with such little production.

 

[NickyFotiu]

No just backwards, conservative , dinosaur philosophy that has plagued this organization for its entire history.

Why would we assume multiple owners, dozens of coaches and dozens of GMs over the entire history of an organization think the same way and that it is the wrong way? If you said since Slats or even since Dolan then at least the conspiracy theory might have some leg to stand on but do you really think Gulf and Western Corporation thinks exactly like James Dolan? That Chris Drury thinks exactly like Lester Patrick? I think it is Aliens. They really do not want KK to flourish. They have seen the future. If KK scores 50 goals their take over of Earth fails.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'm so impressed with this board having more compantent coaches than a guy who has won more games than any other USA coach. Also more competent than assistants that were NHL all stars and in the hall of fame. If it is Quinn, Gorton, Drury, Gallant, and Laviolette holding KK from being a great player than the rest of the NHL should see it and be breaking down our door to trade for him just like they were with Kravtsov. Too bad the Rangers were able to convince Tochett not to let Krav flourish either. The entities behind these conspiracies must be so powerful that they get these coaches and NHL teams to go against their own best interests. Who do you think it is behind the master plan to stop KK from being an all star? Besos? Gates? Aliens?

Was the sarcasm not obvious?

 

[Machinehead]

On the occasions Kakko does get benched, it's because he doesn't do anything.

I think there's a tendency to assume most benchings are do to "bad defense" or other things n stuff (fair enough, coaches do that to themselves), but you have to produce also.

Kakko's game is absolutely bereft of offense in a very high scoring era of NHL hockey.

You can disagree that it's the correct approach to better the situation, but asking "why?" just seems disingenuous at this point.

Say what you will about Wheeler being ass, but he somehow found 17 points down the couch. At a certain point, it matters.

 

[17futurecap]

On the occasions Kakko does get benched, it's because he doesn't do anything.

I think there's a tendency to assume most benchings are do to "bad defense" or other things n stuff (fair enough, coaches do that to themselves), but you have to produce also.

Kakko's game is absolutely bereft of offense in a very high scoring era of NHL hockey.

You can disagree that it's the correct approach to better the situation, but asking "why?" just seems disingenuous at this point.

Say what you will about Wheeler being ass, but he somehow found 17 points down the couch. At a certain point, it matters.

It’s amazing he’s been on the ice for 8 goals and 7 against at five on five, literally nothing happens when he’s on the ice.

 

[effen]

On the occasions Kakko does get benched, it's because he doesn't do anything.

I think there's a tendency to assume most benchings are do to "bad defense" or other things n stuff (fair enough, coaches do that to themselves), but you have to produce also.

Kakko's game is absolutely bereft of offense in a very high scoring era of NHL hockey.

You can disagree that it's the correct approach to better the situation, but asking "why?" just seems disingenuous at this point.

Say what you will about Wheeler being ass, but he somehow found 17 points down the couch. At a certain point, it matters.

He's a low event player who does low event things because he's lacking in exceptional things that make exceptional NHL players. He IS doing the very best he can, this is it.

He's not a plus skater, or a plus stickhandler, or a plus passer, or have a plus shot. He's doesn't have galaxy brain vision, at the NHL level he's average to below average in all those things and as a result he's an average to below average player.

The idea that if Quinn and Gorton had tickled his nuts just right he'd have blossomed into a 90 point guy is just wild to me. I mostly want him gone so the insanity stops.

 

[Machinehead]

He's a low event player who does low event things because he's lacking in exceptional things that make exceptional NHL players. He IS doing the very best he can, this is it.

He's not a plus skater, or a plus stickhandler, or a plus passer, or have a plus shot. He's doesn't have galaxy brain vision, at the NHL level he's average to below average in all those things and as a result he's an average to below average player.

The idea that if Quinn and Gorton had tickled his nuts just right he'd have blossomed into a 90 point guy is just wild to me. I mostly want him gone so the insanity stops.

He has tools, but like a lot of guys with tools, he falls short when it comes to hockey IQ. He doesn't process anything outside of skating straight into traffic.

 

[DanielBrassard]

He's a low event player who does low event things because he's lacking in exceptional things that make exceptional NHL players. He IS doing the very best he can, this is it.

He's not a plus skater, or a plus stickhandler, or a plus passer, or have a plus shot. He's doesn't have galaxy brain vision, at the NHL level he's average to below average in all those things and as a result he's an average to below average player.

The idea that if Quinn and Gorton had tickled his nuts just right he'd have blossomed into a 90 point guy is just wild to me. I mostly want him gone so the insanity stops.

yeah this sums it up pretty well. Hes a useful player in some areas and maybe he will do better on another team but he is never going to be a scorer in the NHL.

 

[IDvsEGO]

On the occasions Kakko does get benched, it's because he doesn't do anything.

I think there's a tendency to assume most benchings are do to "bad defense" or other things n stuff (fair enough, coaches do that to themselves), but you have to produce also.

Kakko's game is absolutely bereft of offense in a very high scoring era of NHL hockey.

You can disagree that it's the correct approach to better the situation, but asking "why?" just seems disingenuous at this point.

Say what you will about Wheeler being ass, but he somehow found 17 points down the couch. At a certain point, it matters.

how many of those points are gift points by other guys doing actual things.
This is where advanced stats are actually important.
When you have guys who give a dump and other people do the hard work, and the guy gets a point, what did the point show? That he knows how to dump the puck? Great, marc stall could do that...

 

[Machinehead]

how many of those points are gift points by other guys doing actual things.
This is where advanced stats are actually important.
When you have guys who give a dump and other people do the hard work, and the guy gets a point, what did the point show? That he knows how to dump the puck? Great, marc stall could do that...

This is where sample size is important. He's bad at offense over 264 NHL games.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

This is where sample size is important. He's bad at offense over 264 NHL games.

Then we should trade him.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Lisa Andersson, Krapsoft, Suckvist, Cocko, it’s a giant conspiracy I tell ya! This is why I never listen to couch potatoes hype up prospects.

 

[TheDirtyH]

On the occasions Kakko does get benched, it's because he doesn't do anything.

I think there's a tendency to assume most benchings are do to "bad defense" or other things n stuff (fair enough, coaches do that to themselves), but you have to produce also.

Kakko's game is absolutely bereft of offense in a very high scoring era of NHL hockey.

You can disagree that it's the correct approach to better the situation, but asking "why?" just seems disingenuous at this point.

Say what you will about Wheeler being ass, but he somehow found 17 points down the couch. At a certain point, it matters.

Lol Kakko was not benched bc he wasn't scoring. He had as many goals since getting back as anyone on the team sans Wheeler. Nor have we ever seen that play out in the organization, be serious.

This is where sample size is important. He's bad at offense over 264 NHL games.

You said the same thing about lafreniere how many months ago.

 

[JCProdigy]

This is where sample size is important. He's bad at offense over 264 NHL games.

He was fine last year for his role. 1.7 pts/60 at 5v5. This year, for whatever reason, he's fallen off a cliff.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol Kakko was not benched bc he wasn't scoring. He had as many goals since getting back as anyone on the team sans Wheeler. Nor have we ever seen that play out in the organization, be serious.


You said the same thing about lafreniere how many months ago.

Prior to this year, Lafreniere had trouble driving play. He still sucks at defense but at least his offensive metrics are good now. He always produced at a top six level and I've always said that. Over their careers:

Points per 60:

Lafreniere - 1.69
Kakko - 1.31

On-ice goals per 60:

Lafreniere - 2.67
Kakko 2.19

And no, that gap doesn't close if you take out this year. They're not the same caliber of producer. Never have been.

The biggest problem I had with Lafreniere prior to this year is that prior to this year, he was the worst powerplay player pretty much ever. He's done a 180 on that to become above average.