Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

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bbny

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I don’t understand how the new staff got Laf to move his feet and be more aggressive but they somehow made Kakko less effective.

I think with whatever they started asking them to do, worked for Laf, but now Kakko is struggling with it. They may need to tweak some things about his assignments. I seriously doubt he just decided to start playing worse at age 22. I think he’s lost, and I said the same thing about Laf before.

I get what you're saying, but a coach with structure should be making it easier for players to understand their assignments and where to be. I don't see how Laviolette could have thrown anything complicated his way. Maybe if Kakko doesn't understand where he should be or what he should be doing, it might just mean he doesn't possess NHL quality hockey IQ?

Historically, he has shown terrific ability with possessing the puck, but he rarely knows what to do with it and plays go nowhere. Maybe things just don't click for him at this level. How long do we wait to find out? How much leash is left? The team is probably on the precipice of their highest odds to compete for a Cup than they've had in a long time, and they effectively have a dead spot on the ice here.

Besides all of that, he has 2 more years after this before UFA. What's the next contract look like? What's his role? What's his fit?

So many questions. Not enough answers. He's running out of time here IMO.
 
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huerter

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I get what you're saying, but a coach with structure should be making it easier for players to understand their assignments and where to be. I don't see how Laviolette could have thrown anything complicated his way. Maybe if Kakko doesn't understand where he should be or what he should be doing, it might just mean he doesn't possess NHL quality hockey IQ?

Historically, he has shown terrific ability with possessing the puck, but he rarely knows what to do with it and plays go nowhere. Maybe things just don't click for him at this level. How long do we wait to find out? How much leash is left? The team is probably on the precipice of their highest odds to compete for a Cup than they've had in a long time, and they effectively have a dead spot on the ice here.

Besides all of that, he has 2 more years after this before UFA. What's the next contract look like? What's his role? What's his fit?

So many questions. Not enough answers. He's running out of time here IMO.
He’s hurting the team not at all. In the fact that we don’t lose but also in that he’s not a detriment. Points schmoints.
 

mas0764

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He’s hurting the team not at all. In the fact that we don’t lose but also in that he’s not a detriment. Points schmoints.

Points are important and Kakko has to get scoring. That third line becoming a scoring option is how you will win in the playoffs.

But dealing him is how you ruin your future once we have lost in the conference finals again. Putting your eggs in the win now basket, especially at great cost to your future, is always foolish.
 

Blasds

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There are 13 columns in the Yahoo NHL boxscore other than shifts and minutes. If I'm our coaches I would show KK this games boxscore and ask him if he noticed anything. He was the only Ranger with a 0 in every single column other than shifts and minutes played. Forget about goals, assists and points. No shots, no hits, no takaways, no blocked shots, no PIM. Nothing. Nada.
He's a zero.
 
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HockeyBasedNYC

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Big time confidence issues.

He’s playing a game that is waaaay too safe.

All things being equal when Chytil returns he should be the one sitting, not Pitlick, but I feel that to get him going Chytil could be the key as he’s played very well with him in the past.

I like Kakko and Cuylle together so it would need to be Cuylle-Chytil-Kakko and then Vesey-Bonino-Goodrow. That leaves the top 2 lines intact

This is IF Chytil returns and Kakko doesn’t regress even further. Maybe you do sit him a game for Pitlick to send a wake up call? He looks fragile and there is no fire in his game at all.

Disappointing. What the hell is happening after such a solid camp??

The trade talk is nonsense until we get much deeper into the season. He isn’t hurting the team but isn’t really helping other than making the safe play.
 

bbny

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He’s hurting the team not at all. In the fact that we don’t lose but also in that he’s not a detriment. Points schmoints.

I think you need more than that from a top 6/9 slotted player on a top team come playoff time though
 

huerter

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There are 13 columns in the Yahoo NHL boxscore other than shifts and minutes. If I'm our coaches I would show KK this games boxscore and ask him if he noticed anything. He was the only Ranger with a 0 in every single column other than shifts and minutes played. Forget about goals, assists and points. No shots, no hits, no takaways, no blocked shots, no PIM. Nothing. Nada.
He should start a blog. IYKYK.
 
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NYRangers0723

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Points are important and Kakko has to get scoring. That third line becoming a scoring option is how you will win in the playoffs.

But dealing him is how you ruin your future once we have lost in the conference finals again. Putting your eggs in the win now basket, especially at great cost to your future, is always foolish.
Agree. Look at this point he’s isn’t going to be what we thought when we drafted him and there were whispers that he may even go before Hughes by some. If he can just be a good third liner who can provide some offense that would be huge.
 

mas0764

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Agree. Look at this point he’s isn’t going to be what we thought when we drafted him and there were whispers that he may even go before Hughes by some. If he can just be a good third liner who can provide some offense that would be huge.

I still think he has top line 50-point-Kreider-like-first-line upside. A lower scoring player 25-25-50 but with such amazing defense and penalty killing that he’s still a top line or top 6 player.

We have seen him score 40 at age 21. He’s having a rough start with the new administration. They still need to get through to him and get him active like they did with Lafreniere.

But frankly lock his ass up on a cheap contract if you can, because even like this you know he’ll be a valuable third liner on a discount deal.

But given that it’s the Rangers I fully expect they will deal him for pennies on the dollar and then they will trade away a first rounder too that would otherwise be the center version of Perrault next draft, all for 6 weeks of washed up Patrick Kane part 2.
 

mas0764

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Kinda funny that he’s the one guy who looked better under Uncle Fester’s pond hockey system.

But Kakko looked way better in the preseason. It’s a nut that has to be cracked because there is gold inside. You don’t discard it.

The caveat would be if Anaheim wants a swap of underachievers, like Zegras who has two points. That’s the kind of change of scenery deal you consider: you are trading for a guy with high upside at center as well.
 
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Peltz

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But Kakko looked way better in the preseason. It’s a nut that has to be cracked because there is gold inside. You don’t discard it.

The caveat would be if Anaheim wants a swap of underachievers, like Zegras who has two points. That’s the kind of change of scenery deal you consider: you are trading for a guy with high upside at center as well.
We're not getting Zegras for Kakko. Let's keep him and extend him now while it's cost effective.
 

IDvsEGO

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I still think he has top line 50-point-Kreider-like-first-line upside. A lower scoring player 25-25-50 but with such amazing defense and penalty killing that he’s still a top line or top 6 player.

We have seen him score 40 at age 21. He’s having a rough start with the new administration. They still need to get through to him and get him active like they did with Lafreniere.

But frankly lock his ass up on a cheap contract if you can, because even like this you know he’ll be a valuable third liner on a discount deal.

But given that it’s the Rangers I fully expect they will deal him for pennies on the dollar and then they will trade away a first rounder too that would otherwise be the center version of Perrault next draft, all for 6 weeks of washed up Patrick Kane part 2.
Lavi has been nothing but positive about him. Lavi has been critical of players before but not about kakko.
 
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TheGortonConspiracy

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He'll look better with a better center. Bonino has been great defensively on that line but not someone who is capable of enhancing the offense of a line.
He literally bombed the Zibanejad line for the first stretch of the season. Wheeler moved up there and that line is producing again.

This dude has zero vision is the issue, he can skate battle possess without issue, it's that he holds on to the puck for too long and doesn't find the open areas of the ice when his linemates have the puck. And that was my fatal flaw in hockey too, I have yet to overcome it. So I am worried about him. A lot of his highlights in Finland and here have been solo efforts.
 

LOFIN

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He literally bombed the Zibanejad line for the first stretch of the season. Wheeler moved up there and that line is producing again.
Kreider-Zibanejad-Wheeler has been together for 8 games. They have started to produce in the last two games. Have looked better in the last 4ish games?

I'm more inclined to believe it's just Zibanejad who has actually started playing hockey lately. Let's not pretend that swapping Kakko with Wheeler gave that line an immediate boost, because it took some time.

All that said, doesn't really matter who Kakko plays with because right now the biggest problems are inside his own head. He himself needs to be a lot better, and doesn't matter if he plays with McDavid or Bonino centering him.
 

TheDirtyH

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He literally bombed the Zibanejad line for the first stretch of the season. Wheeler moved up there and that line is producing again.
This isn't really a fair portrait. That's like saying Bonino was an offensive blackhole until Kakko lifted him up. That line scored 3 in one game against Philly. Up until then been together, they'd been worse in every aspect than when Kakko was in that spot (including scoring).
 

HockeyBasedNYC

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Yeah, I'm sorry it wasn't Kakko that was the issue on Line 1 when he was there. Sure, it didn't work out - but it wasn't all on him. That line has only started to produce over the last 2-3 games with Wheeler on it. Before that it didn't look all that much different.

That being said - It still is incredibly disappointing given Kakko's camp that he wasn't able to take the ball and run with the opportunity that was not only given to him, but earned. We talked about how he was jerked around by previous staffs, not willing to be patient enough with him - and here he has a glorious opportunity, with ample amount of games (11 I believe) and he did little to nothing with it.

If he was just playing like he played the majority of last year (3G, 4A, 7P, -5 in his first 19 games; 6G, 2A, 8P, +5 in his last 19 games) then we likely would be talking about how he just needs better linemates. But yes, Bonino isnt Chytil. Cuylle isnt Laf either, but he gets to the net and has some offensive tools.

Bottom line is he needs to start generating his own offense, or at least do the puck possession thing and get a few chances. We've seen it before regardless of his linemates that he can go out there and be noticeable.

He needs to look in the mirror and remember he can be a 40+ point player like he was last season. At this point hes on pace for 13. Hes in a real passive funk and im sure he isnt thrilled about it either.
 
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TheGortonConspiracy

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Kreider-Zibanejad-Wheeler has been together for 8 games. They have started to produce in the last two games. Have looked better in the last 4ish games?

I'm more inclined to believe it's just Zibanejad who has actually started playing hockey lately. Let's not pretend that swapping Kakko with Wheeler gave that line an immediate boost, because it took some time.

All that said, doesn't really matter who Kakko plays with because right now the biggest problems are inside his own head. He himself needs to be a lot better, and doesn't matter if he plays with McDavid or Bonino centering him.
The plays that they are scoring off of - several of which are Wheeler finding Zibanejad in tight - are not plays Kakko could score. The line with Kakko and Zib would still be trying to find it's identity if that switch didn't happen.

I really don't buy the confidence angle. He's a reserved dude, sure. But he has been here plenty of years, has girlfriend, nice apartment in nyc, played well in preseason against worse talent, etc. it's that he has no vision.
This isn't really a fair portrait. That's like saying Bonino was an offensive blackhole until Kakko lifted him up. That line scored 3 in one game against Philly. Up until then been together, they'd been worse in every aspect than when Kakko was in that spot (including scoring).
Yea Kakko is a good 3 liner currently. That could change. Right now he makes sense on the 3rd line where can grind and play a solo game that doesnt rely on vision.
 
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NYR Viper

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The plays that they are scoring off of - several of which are Wheeler finding Zibanejad in tight - are not plays Kakko could score. The line with Kakko and Zib would still be trying to find it's identity if that switch didn't happen.

I really don't buy the confidence angle. He's a reserved dude, sure. But he has been here plenty of years, has girlfriend, nice apartment in nyc, played well in preseason against worse talent, etc. it's that he has no vision.

Yea Kakko is a good 3 liner currently. That could change. Right now he makes sense on the 3rd line where can grind and play a solo game that doesnt rely on vision.

I'm not sure where we are seeing that he doesn't have 'vision'. Some of his passes going back to last year were well above average and often very difficult to make. I would say that his passing is well above average and thus his vision is as well. I think he is struggling to find his linemates on a consistent basis however. That is true.
 

TopShelfSnipes

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Yeah, I'm sorry it wasn't Kakko that was the issue on Line 1 when he was there. Sure, it didn't work out - but it wasn't all on him. That line has only started to produce over the last 2-3 games with Wheeler on it. Before that it didn't look all that much different.

That being said - It still is incredibly disappointing given Kakko's camp that he wasn't able to take the ball and run with the opportunity that was not only given to him, but earned. We talked about how he was jerked around by previous staffs, not willing to be patient enough with him - and here he has a glorious opportunity, with ample amount of games (11 I believe) and he did little to nothing with it.

If he was just playing like he played the majority of last year (3G, 4A, 7P, -5 in his first 19 games; 6G, 2A, 8P, +5 in his last 19 games) then we likely would be talking about how he just needs better linemates. But yes, Bonino isnt Chytil. Cuylle isnt Laf either, but he gets to the net and has some offensive tools.

Bottom line is he needs to start generating his own offense, or at least do the puck possession thing and get a few chances. We've seen it before regardless of his linemates that he can go out there and be noticeable.

He needs to look in the mirror and remember he can be a 40+ point player like he was last season. At this point hes on pace for 13. Hes in a real passive funk and im sure he isnt thrilled about it either.

100%. IMO the issue with Kakko on that line is that he stopped creating chances. It's not just that the line wasn't scoring. It's that the first five games of the season he was setting up Kreider and Zibanejad left and right, lost an assist to the stupidity that is video replay, and was generally noticeable.

He wasn't demoted cuz he wasn't producing. He was demoted because after that ~5 games or so, he went back to playing like a grinder. A step behind the rush, not touching the puck in open ice or dumping and chasing when he gets it, soft on the forecheck/not hitting. Not taking the puck to the net from the wall and just cycling/chipping along the wall until he turns it over. Not shooting. Not forcing anything to the middle. Not being the least bit creative. Once he stopped creating and forcing the opponents into bad plays, that's when he was taken off the 20-93 line.

I don't care if he was putting up goose eggs in goals, assists, and points...if he was creating chances, even if they weren't going in, he'd have deserved to stay there. But he's not, and he's been invisible for about a month now. It's hard to score a goal. It's hard to score an assist. It's not hard to to do one thing a game that leads to a scoring chance that reminds the fans and the coaching staff why he's there.

Look at Lafreniere. Totally held off the scoresheet last game in a game the team scored 7 and 13 players had points. Except he easily could've had four assists, was robbed on a shot from the circle, and made some unreal passes that Panarin and Trocheck just couldn't finish. So what if he was scoreless...he plays every game like that, he'll finish with 75 points cuz puckluck.

Where is the similar argument for Kakko? I think it's stuck over by the zamboni doors where Kakko coughed up the puck last. When was the last time you looked at anything Kakko did, and said, man he created that play, I can't believe it didn't go in...he deserved a point? (My answer to that question is 5 games into the season). I mean, what is there remotely resembling that in the last 10? A phantom assist on Cuylle's disallowed goal because he missed the net and Cuylle recovered the puck weakside boards, drove the net, and did the rest? The "drought is over" relief because he stickhandled 5 feet from the net while trying to pass instead of shooting or drving the net, and the D spiked the puck into his own net? The tired refrain of "at least he's being good defensively" when almost the entire team is solid defensively right now, and he was drafted for his offense?
 
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LionsHeart

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I'm not sure where we are seeing that he doesn't have 'vision'. Some of his passes going back to last year were well above average and often very difficult to make. I would say that his passing is well above average and thus his vision is as well. I think he is struggling to find his linemates on a consistent basis however. That is true.
A lot of people forget that he was setting up Chytil on a lot of those goals that got him a nice contract.
 

TheGortonConspiracy

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I'm not sure where we are seeing that he doesn't have 'vision'. Some of his passes going back to last year were well above average and often very difficult to make. I would say that his passing is well above average and thus his vision is as well. I think he is struggling to find his linemates on a consistent basis however. That is true.
Where we are seeing it:

He has below league average high danger passes/60 for 2 years in a row
1701121566419.png
 
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