Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko
- Thread starter Krams
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- Jan 18, 2012
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dshea19
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- Jun 9, 2015
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Yeah, that miss is the difference between 3-1 and 2-2. It is what it is at this point.
That miss hurt my soul.
It still hurts
You could literally say that about half the team. You wanna hate our young player who has had every break go against him? Do whatever you want man. You be you. But he is doing just as much/little as some guys who get 18 minutes a game and PP time.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Well I never said hate and I still hope he becomes something but he's just not showing me anything at this point.
As for the "rest" of the team you can certainly make an argument that Bread has been awful and I've stated as much (as have MANY others) throughout both series'... Shesty has had his "moments" Zbad and Foxy as well... so I'm not sure what your point is.
Honestly if Bread was half the player he usually is we don't have to gripe about how ineffective Kakko and others have been.
This. It’s not hate and I think it’s pretty obvious that nobody hates any of our kids. The difference is that the fan base has been so starved for the kids to amount to anything, and so defensive against other teams calling them busts, that some people have themselves salivating over a single instance of good stick handling here or a decent shot on goal there, or even a shot attempt that wasn’t on goal but “looked” dangerous. The fact is, while the kids have looked okay they still mostly aren’t doing shit and Kakko is doing the least.
Plenty of other players aren’t doing much either. Can I be calling out Panarin any harder than I have been? Have I even once singled out Kakko? The point isn’t to “hate” on the kids or place any blame on them. The point is that some people want to give the kids wayyyyy more credit than they deserve because they haven’t been completely invisible and awful. The truth is, they’re all massive disappointments and doing little to change that.
Instead of Kakko, imagine you’re talking to a Devils fan about a player who has 2 points in 11 playoff games and has missed some crucial open nets and they’re telling you how “he’s had some really good stick handles though! And a few times he shot the puck wide but it was like, sooooo close!” You’d laugh in their face. That’s what our fan base is doing with the kids. So desperate for signs of life and hope that we’re practically applauding them for simply staying on their feet and not just turning the puck over. They’re literally just… playing hockey… and we’re all acting like it’s some huge breakout post season from the kids. Like, they’re just sort of barely playing NHL level hockey, not producing, but not being a total liability, and the fact that we take this as a bright spot should be a warning sign on its own of how badly they’ve disappointed. Only Laf has shown anything worth being optimistic over, and it hasn’t been that much.
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LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Can you imagine watching a team tied 2-2 in the 2nd round of the playoffs and for more than half the games, the kid line was statistically our best line by FAR, and CONSTANTLY complaining. Imagine how miserable that would be. Feel bad for you guys. You articulate your points really well though.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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Kakko is a couple months away from his second contract, with 58 points in 157 regular season games and 2 points in 14 playoff games. NHL-ready second overall pick. Loads of tools. But hasn’t produced.
I just don’t know what you’re basing that on other than personal feelings? The kids are insanely mediocre. They have combined for 10 points in 11 games. Lafreniere has 5 of those points. Copp is playing on one leg and has the same points as the entire kid line combined. Mika has 14 points himself. Kreider has 8. You’re trying to argue that the kid line has been “the best” “by far” “consistently” but it’s entirely based on feelings that you’re projecting onto wishing the kids would do a f***ing thing, which they haven’t. Kakko has 1 goal and 1 assist. Chytil has 2 goals and 1 assist. You know who has less points? Rooney (2 - tied with Kakko), Motte (missed 5 games), Braun, Reaves, Nemeth (only played 5), Hunt (played 2), Goodrow (played 1), Brodzinski (played 1).
Only 3 players who have played regularly have done less than Fil or KK. Please, explain what besides “looking good” have they managed to accomplish that makes them “consistently” and “by far” our best line? They are being given brownie points for managing to simply play NHL level hockey and look like they belong. Hey, it’s a step in the right direction. It’s still not a whole lot. Your username is literally Cuckoo for Kakko. Let’s not live up to it. You want him to pan out so badly that you’re projecting some nonexistent measure of success onto his very mediocre play.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
I tend to think of generating more scoring chances than a player allows going the other way to be a pretty good indicator of being "good at hockey". And in that regard, during 5 on 5 play, Kakko has been one of the best forwards on the team.
It's hard for our brains to keep track of this and analyze performance in real time, over time. Even simple shit. I bet if you polled the board right now, most people would not be able to even answer who the leading scorer(s) on the team are at even strength in the POs.
The brutal misses often linger more than the good plays. A "less exciting" shift where the puck stays in the offensive zone among the team but doesn't result in a chance is forgotten. The bad shifts other players have where Igor saves their bacon and no goal is allowed get glossed over. Trevor Zegras and Tim Stutzle are can't miss studs, future HOFers, because we see them on Instagram every week.
But yea, super helpful to have page after page of our own fanbase being unable to even properly analyze play. Some iteration of "2 points bro" over and over.
McRanger92
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- Jun 7, 2017
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This has been my concern for awhile. I dont think the offense is going to be there consistently enough to hit his ceiling. Still looks like he will be a good NHLer but expectations may need to be adjusted.
Probably because at the end of the day, if you don’t produce, you don’t stick around. These things that you feel are admittedly hard to measure and keep track of but feel are going in Kakko’s favor are nothing more than excuses when the primary thing Kakko will ultimately be measured upon is missing. We talking about Motte? Or Hunt? I agree with everything you said, but it doesn’t change the fact that there are no “almost” goals awarded that help us win when the clock expires and no additional points given out at the end of the game for the line that best sort of kind of managed to have the puck a decent amount and do nothing tangible with it but also not hurt their team. Going into his second contract and 4th year in the NHL. Some day he’ll actually have to out produce the average 4th liner. You’d hope. Otherwise, even with all that “doing other good stuff” he supposedly does… he’s a 4th liner.
By the way…
All that “good stuff” and those supposed good shifts the kid line keeps having? All of them are tied for the worst +/- on the team, with only Nemeth and Schneider.
Sure, it’s no the most useful stat. But in addition to not producing, they’ve given up at least 4 more goals than the barely anything they’ve created. Both of Kakko’s points and 2/3 of Chytil’s came at 5v5 which puts them on the ice for 6 goals against and only 2 for.
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Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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We've gone down this road with Chytil and Gauthier already. Is it really a scoring chance when they have no ability to finish? That's my worry with Kakko. Laf at least has shown the ability to put the puck behind the goalie. Kakko needs to shoot 100 pucks per day this summer. And if his game is playmaking, not scoring, he needs to become a better skater.
Kakko has scoring ability. We saw that against the flyers.
He needs to improve his speed and acceleration.
He’s got the size and hands he just is a step or two behind the play.
An abstract argument about how it looks like the player is doing good despite not producing and having the worst +/- on the team? We know it does.
ReddestRum
Sad even when winning
- Dec 19, 2013
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Glad the series is tied 2-2, but we'd be in an even better position if, you know, Kakko could hit a wide open net. Then again, this issue seems to be a reoccurring problem for a lot of players on this team in general.
Using +/- when anyone with the tiniest bit of hockey knowledge knows it's a bad measure. Nicely done!
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
He's never going to produce at the rate he was expected to unless he somehow becomes a better skater. That's just a fact.
Actually, it really only takes the tiniest bit of hockey knowledge to understand the application and limits of +/- rather than to write it off with a single blanket statement. There’s 3 forwards on the team who are -4. You guessed it. The mid line. Bro, your username is literally dedicated to Kakko. I’m sure you’re the one who is going to be completely unbiased and logical - not the Rangers fan who calls all of our players out when they suck and gives them their due when they deserve it.
You’re reaction is entirely emotional. Even though I have explicitly stated that no one is hating on him, no one dislikes him and certainly no one is blaming him for any of the team’s shortcomings, you are taking me saying that his playoffs haven’t been the eye opening revelation people are acting like they’ve been as a literal insult. If anyone in this argument is abandoning reason, it’s not me. I’m pretty level handed abojt calling out and praising our guys in equal measures when they deserve it. Kakko hasn’t been nearly as inspiring as some of you think. He’s literally being given credit for doing nothing. He’s produced 2 points, been on the ice for 6 goals against, and occasionally had some decent zone time. Those are very literally the facts of the Kaapo Kakko playoff story.
You’re taking it personally. You think I “hate” Kakko. Or Fil. Or any of them. It’s simple. The only thing they have “accomplished” in the playoffs is not being liabilities and occasionally having some decent possessions. In other words, they’ve managed to look like NHL players. By what metric have they been anything better than replacement level third liners? I’m sorry, but not celebrating the fact that the kids don’t look like disasters doesn’t make me a hater. They simply still have much more to prove.
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You could also say that the +/- is the Nemeth factor that made even Igor play like shit and lead to EN goals against boosting the minus side.
Your argument goes along the line of Kakko "doing nothing", people being depressed about the kids based on "other team's fans" calling them busts etc. Right.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Nothing at all that I said was abstract. It is grounded in actual scoring chance data, which is more comprehensive than simply looking at +/- which doesn’t include apples to apples goalie performance.
The kids have done nothing. I’m baffled that people are really so desperate to give them such kudos. They have managed to not be liabilities while also not producing. That’s the moral victory we’re striving for as our 2OA’s ELC expires now? If so, that’s a sad indication of his performance to date.
The player your describing is a solid fourth line nobody if he doesn’t produce. Kakko is going into his 4th year in the NHL and averaging about 13 goals, 17 assists, 30 points per 82. In the playoffs he has 1 goal and 1 assist. If the object is for him to be a good Tyler Motte clone, I hope he can get a bit faster. If the objective is for him to ever warrant a spot in the top six, he has to do more than “look kinda good” while putting up no points and allowing twice as many goals against.
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LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
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Skating can be fixed, he just has to work for that and someone in the organization should be pounding that fact into his head. Yes, he has taken skating lessons in the recent off seasons but clearly not enough. How about this organization actually starts to develop its young players? Because they are obviously having a hard time figuring it out themselves. That's what a top organization in the league should be able to do. And don't tell me the Rangers are not a top organization. Someone needs to sit down with Kakko and have a plan how to train his skating and shot next season. f*** the weights, he's decent enough in size. Time to focus on more critical areas.
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