Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[McRanger92]

The aggressive responses simply sound like emotional attachment for what Kakko at #2 was supposed to be for the franchise, rather than the reality of the situation. Copp has almost as many points in 13 games as Kakko has in 41 this year. Kakko could very well be better than Copp X years down the road. It might be 2 years down the road. It might be 5 years down the road. It might also be never. But the reality is it is definitely not today.

I dont dislike Kakko but this is pretty accurate. Kakko isnt a 2 way player because he doesn't score. He's also pretty good defensively but isnt trusted to PK. Copp is leaps and bounds better than him, and so is Strome (not that the perpetual rebuild folks want to hear that)

 

[Chytilmania]

I dont dislike Kakko but this is pretty accurate. Kakko isnt a 2 way player because he doesn't score. He's also pretty good defensively but isnt trusted to PK. Copp is leaps and bounds better than him, and so is Strome (not that the perpetual rebuild folks want to hear that)

Strome at $6+ is not better for this roster and future than Kakko.

 

[bbny]

I dont dislike Kakko but this is pretty accurate. Kakko isnt a 2 way player because he doesn't score. He's also pretty good defensively but isnt trusted to PK. Copp is leaps and bounds better than him, and so is Strome (not that the perpetual rebuild folks want to hear that)

I don’t dislike Kakko either. I actually think he’s a pretty good bottom 6 player. I just don’t see the top 6 potential surfacing. My expectations have just changed and his ELC is ending, which forces me to weigh cost to keep (which is more than just about cap hit) versus value to trade (which is trade return + what you can do with the cap space instead). All while considering what happens to his value after another bad year production side, which seems more likely than not to me.

 

[Doctyl]

So are we really going to only keep one of Copp/Strome/Vatrano this offseason just so that we can overpay Kakko on a bridge deal because he was a 2OA? I think I’d rather keep two of those three and get some futures value out of Kakko via trade before it’s gone. There has to be a few teams out there who would still pay a fair amount for him.

I’d rather not have Strome at all. Like not even if it’s a choice between him or Kakko or Copp or Vatrano. I just don’t want him on this roster.

 

[McRanger92]

I don’t dislike Kakko either. I actually think he’s a pretty good bottom 6 player. I just don’t see the top 6 potential surfacing. My expectations have just changed and his ELC is ending, which forces me to weigh cost to keep (which is more than just about cap hit) versus cost to trade (which is trade return + what you can do with the cap space instead). All while considering what happens to his value after another bad year production side, which seems more likely than not to me.

Hes more Joel Armia than Mikko Rantanen from what ive seen

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Did someone ever say that?

Carcillo better than Panarin

 

[fm]

i'm with stan. i'll take prucha over crosby any day (even today).

 

[mas0764]

I'm not saying he's ahead, I'm saying there are a multitude of young winger options in the organization. Its also pretty likely Othmann starts next season in NY

Sounds like Kreider is expendable!

 

[Irishguy42]

i'm with stan. i'll take prucha over crosby any day (even today).

 

[bhamill]

Not going to lie. I'm pretty amazed at the amount of desire there is from some people to move on from 20-22 year olds with a ton of potential around here. I mean, Krav I do kinda get: people dislike the way he's acted, right or wrong. I'll say it again tough: this sort of impatience and knee jerk reaction is how we ended up getting Zib from Ottawa for f***ing Brassard.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Not going to lie. I'm pretty amazed at the amount of desire there is from some people to move on from 20-22 year olds with a ton of potential around here. I mean, Krav I do kinda get: people dislike the way he's acted, right or wrong. I'll say it again tough: this sort of impatience and knee jerk reaction is how we ended up getting Zib from Ottawa for f***ing Brassard.

we all know that if we trade kakko this is exactly what is going to happen

we should not be looking to trade kakko at all, unless the return is another player of similar age and potential that plays center

 

[Doctyl]

we all know that if we trade kakko this is exactly what is going to happen

we should not be looking to trade kakko at all, unless the return is another player of similar age and potential that plays center

I’d rather Kakko and Laf rot on this roster as career 30 point players than do an Ottawa

 

[McRanger92]

Sounds like Kreider is expendable!

Your wishcasting of our younger players is only rivaled by your dismissal of actual good players over the age of 27

 

[will1066]

Not going to lie. I'm pretty amazed at the amount of desire there is from some people to move on from 20-22 year olds with a ton of potential around here. I mean, Krav I do kinda get: people dislike the way he's acted, right or wrong. I'll say it again tough: this sort of impatience and knee jerk reaction is how we ended up getting Zib from Ottawa for f***ing Brassard.

Im no longer entering this thread until the stupidity dies down

 

[bbny]

Not going to lie. I'm pretty amazed at the amount of desire there is from some people to move on from 20-22 year olds with a ton of potential around here. I mean, Krav I do kinda get: people dislike the way he's acted, right or wrong. I'll say it again tough: this sort of impatience and knee jerk reaction is how we ended up getting Zib from Ottawa for f***ing Brassard.

Zibanejad was a 20 goal 45-50 point player for each of his age 21 and 22 seasons before Ottawa made the mistake of trading him. He also had way better progress between 19-21 than Kakko. All signs pointed up for him. Way different.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The aggressive responses simply sound like emotional attachment for what Kakko at #2 was supposed to be for the franchise, rather than the reality of the situation. Copp has almost as many points in 13 games as Kakko has in 41 this year. Kakko could very well be better than Copp X years down the road. It might be 2 years down the road. It might be 5 years down the road. It might also be never. But the reality is it is definitely not today.

Kravtsov isn't "returning to the fold" next year, in fact I will declare now he never plays for the Rangers again.

 

[McRanger92]

Not going to lie. I'm pretty amazed at the amount of desire there is from some people to move on from 20-22 year olds with a ton of potential around here. I mean, Krav I do kinda get: people dislike the way he's acted, right or wrong. I'll say it again tough: this sort of impatience and knee jerk reaction is how we ended up getting Zib from Ottawa for f***ing Brassard.

Zibanejad had multiple 20 goal seasons before Ottawa traded him. And i wouldnt say people have a desire to move Kakko but its just the reality of the situation. Have we not all known for years that the Rangers will eventually have to trade some young players? Forget about the emotional connection and consider that Kakko has shown very little offensively in 3 years, still carries value as a young 2OA pick and needs a new contract.

Im perfectly content with keeping him even if it means Strome and Vatrano walk, but trading him is very much an option for NYR. Thats all im saying.

 

[bbny]

Kravtsov isn't "returning to the fold" next year, in fact I will declare now he never plays for the Rangers again.

Either you meant Kakko instead of Kravtsov, or you've quoted the wrong post

 

[Fitzy]

JVR is a pretty good example of a #2 overall pick who didn't hit his stride until much later.

Bobby Ryan wasn't even a full time NHL player until his d+4

 

[bhamill]

Zibanejad was a 20 goal 45-50 point player for each of his age 21 and 22 seasons before Ottawa made the mistake of trading him. He also had way better progress between 19-21 than Kakko. All signs pointed up for him. Way different.

How does this change my point? They sold short on his potential. If we trade any of these young players, for anything short of a player with the same potential, so likely will we.

 

[bhamill]

Zibanejad had multiple 20 goal seasons before Ottawa traded him. And i wouldnt say people have a desire to move Kakko but its just the reality of the situation. Have we not all known for years that the Rangers will eventually have to trade some young players? Forget about the emotional connection and consider that Kakko has shown very little offensively in 3 years, still carries value as a young 2OA pick and needs a new contract.

Im perfectly content with keeping him even if it means Strome and Vatrano walk, but trading him is very much an option for NYR. Thats all im saying.

The fact that Zbad had shown more (and was older) doesn't change my point. In fact Ottawa was patient enough to wait till after his D+5, more patient than those who want to trade Kakko, Laf, Fil or Krav... And I would certainly say SOME people (not necessarily you) do have a desire to do so, simply out of impatience. I've seen people saying Kakko/Laf will never be top six players...
Again I've not said Kappo is untouchable. If you're able to get fair value (equal young potential) that's one thing, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[bbny]

How does this change my point? They sold short on his potential. If we trade any of these young players, for anything short of a player with the same potential, so likely will we.

Because your point can be applied to any young player. Nobody would ever trade a prospect or young player again out of fear it might turn out like Zibanejad for Brassard. Reasonable estimations of whether or not to move on can be done by way of evaluating what the young player has done and what progression has been made. What the likelihood is for getting better and how much better. Zibanejad showed progression in spades, and had the 2nd lineish stats to back it up. The offensive production indicators said not to trade him. Ottawa fugged up. There’s no such indicators with Kakko. Only hope and good defense. Replaceable traits.

 

[mas0764]

We aren't moving Kakko and if we did the entire front office should be cleaned out the day after.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I'm not saying he's ahead, I'm saying there are a multitude of young winger options in the organization. Its also pretty likely Othmann starts next season in NY

Othmann may start in my next season.
Kakko still has far far more upside.
There is absolutely zero reason to voluntarily move kakko.
He’s improved his game every season as a ranger and still can continue to improve.

 

[bhamill]

Because your point can be applied to any young player. Nobody would ever trade a prospect or young player again out of fear it might turn out like Zibanejad for Brassard. Reasonable estimations of whether or not to move on can be done by way of evaluating what the young player has done and what progression has been made. What the likelihood is for getting better and how much better. Zibanejad showed progression in spades, and had the 2nd lineish stats to back it up. The offensive production indicators said not to trade him. Ottawa fugged up. There’s no such indicators with Kakko. Only hope and good defense. Replaceable traits.

Totally subjective. Kakko is already one of the better defensive players in the league and has shown flashes of his offensive upside.
And for reference:
Mika's first 3 seasons: 120 games 54 points
Kakko's first three seasons: 156 games 56 points
Mika didn't show that much more than Kakko offensively and did not yet have the defensive side down...
I remain amazed at people wanting to move on from Kakko in his D+3. Ottawa at least waited till after Mika's D+5 to f*** up. You are free to continue to think he should be moved.