Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part V
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Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
The guy is talking about people needing to be patient because these kids haven’t been stars right out of the gate.
Ok. I get it.
But they aren’t even competent secondary scorers yet. Forget about stars.
Again, sure, patience. Excuses. Let’s stick with it.
When does it end though?
We do need Kakko and Laf to provide that secondary scoring.
But one thing to note in terms of Kakko, you see the abilities that can make him a 55-75 point player in this league every season. You saw it last game against CBJ, he was unbelievable. But I think part of the problem is when he is on Panarin’s line there is a lot of deferment, and not just by Kakko…its by everyone on the ice. They try to run the play through him so much. And right now Panarin is legit dead weight out there. He is making so many mistakes with the puck. He isn’t skating hard. It just cant be easy when the play is running through one guy and its dying there.
I brought it up in the GDT, in the 3rd period, Kakko battles his way down the RW boards, draws two players to him, takes a hit, and pushes the puck behind the net. Not only is Ryan Strome slow getting to that spot for support, he simply does a fly by. He lets the Kraken player handle the puck easily, barely stick checks him, let alone take the body (cant expect that idiot to do that).
I think Kakko just needs to be more selfish. Thats the bottom line. Same goes for Lafreniere
But one thing to note in terms of Kakko, you see the abilities that can make him a 55-75 point player in this league every season. You saw it last game against CBJ, he was unbelievable. But I think part of the problem is when he is on Panarin’s line there is a lot of deferment, and not just by Kakko…its by everyone on the ice. They try to run the play through him so much. And right now Panarin is legit dead weight out there. He is making so many mistakes with the puck. He isn’t skating hard. It just cant be easy when the play is running through one guy and its dying there.
I brought it up in the GDT, in the 3rd period, Kakko battles his way down the RW boards, draws two players to him, takes a hit, and pushes the puck behind the net. Not only is Ryan Strome slow getting to that spot for support, he simply does a fly by. He lets the Kraken player handle the puck easily, barely stick checks him, let alone take the body (cant expect that idiot to do that).
I think Kakko just needs to be more selfish. Thats the bottom line. Same goes for Lafreniere
I've been watching hockey since the 70s, following talent since the 80s. I've seen a lot of kids, European and North American, come into the NHL and flourish over the years. I've yet to see a single one who was a HOFer at 20. If you cannot see the talent there is nothing I can tell you.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
Go back and read threads from 2019, this guy was penciled in for 70-ish points his rookie season. Anyone who says he hasn’t been a massive disappointment aren’t being honest. I’ll never forget the hilarious graphic they showed during the draft when he was picked “Room for improvement: None”
Had a horrible game.
He has to use his body and stick skills to win puck battles deep. He’s not gonna dangle or out skate someone thru the neutral zone.
Hope he gets off that line soon but don’t think GG is gonna switch things up.
I didn't say I think you believe Kakko or Laf will be a HOFers. Jeez, reading comprehension much? I was making an argument, that does not have to be taken literally you know. I'm saying it's obvious Kakko and Laf are extremely talented and that they will become dominant players in their careers, but their careers are not determined at 20.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
Give me a damn break with the they are only 20 excuse. Guess who else was 20? All the other 1st and 2nd overall picks of the past two decades and very few have produced as infrequently as Lafreniere and Kakko. It's not obvious at all they are going to become dominant.
yea was trying to say not the young version of hossa, more what he was in pitt/chi - kakkos skating has improved but he's nowhere near as explosive as hossa on the sens. either way just a name to throw out there
one other guy i see some similarities to is tavares...the wide base stride, protection down low using those hard stops and pivots to buy time, hands in tight...doesn't have his shot tho - good shot but he ain't on that level as a goal scorer.
re production - i get the stance of at some point looking the part has to become production. but at the same time we're 5 games or whatever into year 3 for him. no one has really generated much production outside of fox and kreider. without looking at any numbers i'd guess he's generated as many turnovers into chances and had the puck in high danger areas as much as anyone on the team 5 on 5. been a little unlucky but do think he needs to sack up and start forcing the issue to the net front. he's been great at getting inside his guy and driving at the net but refuses to actually finish the play and drive to the net and take the shot - not sure if he's afraid of taking contact doing that or what - but he's gotten nothing outta doing all that work to try a low % pass through traffic backdoor or going around the net to move it up high and waste the threat. the only way those backdoor passes are ever gonna be available is if he teams know they need to defend him going to the driving the net.
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 29,192
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Hockey is much different these days than 10-20 years ago….you rarely see 18-19 year olds jump right in and dominate anymore.
people are so damn impatient.
This is 100% accurate. They both need to be more selfish.
Get these kids off Zbad and Panarin’s line. They both keep looking for them in the offensive zone because they expect them to create opportunities, versus trusting their skills to create chances. Both these kids look for excuses to pass the puck to these guys instead of try and make a play.
They’ll never develop if they keep looking for Zbad or Panarin in the offensive zone.
Kreider-Zbad-Goodrow
Panarin-Strome-Blais
Laf-Chytil-KK
Hunt-Rooney-Reaves
Put the kids in a situation where it’s all them. I can guarantee Laf will try and showcase his offensive talent more knowing he doesn’t have Zbad or Kreider to dish it off too and hope they create a play.
lol you did the same thing with Kravtsov.
I actually remember that thread and I forget who suggested 60/70 points from Laf, and I called them crazy for expecting that. But they seemed convinced it was a possibility because he’s a 1st OA pick.
Jova - go scout over that thread and find the culprit so we can make memes out of him!
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 18,834
- 27,725
Yup, get their confidence up by forcing them to make plays by themselves, when that's fixed bring 'em back up if that's what you eventually want to do.
Kakko is my favourite player alongside Rantanen, but it's getting hard to keep this "the points will come" -narrative up even if that's the sensible thing to do. Something needs to happen, and like stated, I too would like to see GG actually try to activate these kids by shuffling the lines. Not like our game has been that good during the first 9 games. Without Shesty (and a reborn PP-Kreider), we would be in Defcon 2 with the play of this team. So far the results don't really reflect on how we have played.
IronBloodedLion
Registered User
I’m giving our kids the benefit of the doubt between the new players, coach, system, etc…but at some point they do need to start producing.
I’m also concerned with our organizations ability to develop forwards. Kakko isn’t an outlier here, he’s part of a trend.
I’m also concerned with our organizations ability to develop forwards. Kakko isn’t an outlier here, he’s part of a trend.
KevinFinnerty
I bomb atomically...
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,767
- 27,709
If we’re being serious for a moment, we can probably hold off on career assessments until Kakko is 24-25 years old. With few exceptions, that is about the age when players cease developing. Is he going to be an impact player in his teens and early 20s? Not based on what we’ve seen so far. But the jury is still out on what he will be for the remainder of his career. I’ve seen enough year over year improvement to keep me optimistic.
savebyrichter94
I’m No Longer Here
Hard to say really, their “face only a mother could love” %’s are pretty identical
Inferno
Registered User
WojtekWolski86
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- Nov 14, 2019
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That world championship and the goal he scored against Murray created an expectation level. Sure there were NHLers playing, mostly bottom 6 guys and Murray is Swiss cheese now but we haven't seen him replicate the entire execution like he was during that tourney.
We keep getting these teaser bites of him muscling guys off or that breakaway goal in preseason and we keep thinking "this will be the jump start" and then it goes back to pointless Kaako. He has failed to find that finish at this level. He has failed to put all his tools together at once for multiple games in a row.
Bottom line, what determines Kaako is abust or not is getting over that consistency trigger. That will be the difference between a 3rd line grinder and a top winger.
I’m not sure we watched the same game. Kakko was absolutely not awful. He had a couple shifts where he lost the puck because he got no help. But seattle plays a real smothering pressure defense, and he had a few big possessions that almost none of our other lines had.
- Jul 16, 2005
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It is fair to say "it's early," and also "it's starting to get late," on both Kakko and Lafreniere.
Obviously they are not done developing and may still be stars.
It's also completely reasonable to say "But the stars we were hoping they would become had mostly produced way more by this point." It's not unfair to call attention to that issue.
It's also fair to point out that most of those stars weren't sitting behind Panarin and Zibanejad. It's also fair to point out that to an extent the presence of those two should be helping Kakko and Laf, not hurting them. Etc. It can be looked at from a ton of angles.
But it's one thing to call bust. It's another to say, there is reason to be worried.
There is reason.
Not final determination, just uncertainty, and uncertainty can give rise to concern.
Obviously they are not done developing and may still be stars.
It's also completely reasonable to say "But the stars we were hoping they would become had mostly produced way more by this point." It's not unfair to call attention to that issue.
It's also fair to point out that most of those stars weren't sitting behind Panarin and Zibanejad. It's also fair to point out that to an extent the presence of those two should be helping Kakko and Laf, not hurting them. Etc. It can be looked at from a ton of angles.
But it's one thing to call bust. It's another to say, there is reason to be worried.
There is reason.
Not final determination, just uncertainty, and uncertainty can give rise to concern.
mandiblesofdoom
Registered User
- May 24, 2012
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KK made one good play last night that was noticeable to me. In fairness, most of the team sucked, so he blended right in, but still ....
Panarin's favorite thing is to enter the zone with possession, curl and evade the D, and then hit the trailer for a high-percentage shot. Not sure how KK interfaces with this playing style - he's not a big open-space type player imo.
KK could be a "tough-to-play-against" type that our management keeps talking about. Somehow his ability to boss the puck around the zone needs to interface with the other guys on his line. Now it seems like they are playing two different games.
Panarin's favorite thing is to enter the zone with possession, curl and evade the D, and then hit the trailer for a high-percentage shot. Not sure how KK interfaces with this playing style - he's not a big open-space type player imo.
KK could be a "tough-to-play-against" type that our management keeps talking about. Somehow his ability to boss the puck around the zone needs to interface with the other guys on his line. Now it seems like they are playing two different games.
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Kakko just isn't the right fit on that line. Tbh, I think that lines needs Hunt but that would be giving those two way too much control over the team. Kakko is trying to do what Gallant wants the team to do while Strome and Panarin are just floating around. Panarin is great on the boards but we don't see that from him at all anymore. There's a reason why Kakko has only meshed with Chytil so far and that's because Chytil will always be there to support him along the boards. Mika and Kreider used to be great at cycling but they've lost that type of play over the Quinn years it seems. Kakko really needs to get off that Strome line. When the games get tough Strome will shrink from being physical and then all that's left is Kakko on that line trying to win board battles.
100% this. Because they are, and this has been an issue since Kakko came to the Rangers. Panarin and Zib love and thrive to come off the rush, pick the seams etc. Which is fine, up to a point. Kakko is looking to play a complete game with his line and the D pairing, that includes cycling the puck and heavy board play, basically the way Gallant wants to play. It does NOT work if Kakko is the only one on his line trying to play that way.
Many posters here keep saying the Rangers have a huge problem at C, which is completely true. The Rangers have 9 wingers in the top 9, half of whom do NOT like to play an engaged game along the boards.
Gallant has his work cut out for him taming some of the "stars". No wonder he was pissed after the game.
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