JVR at the deadline

[Menzinger]

great strategy, but who are these D-men we will be spending money on down the road? Most likely, we will need to find help from within, so those guys will be on the cheap, just like the guys you expect to replace JVR.

Another option would be keep the guys like JVR and Bozak until their deals run out, sign some vets to short term deals, and hope that shores up the D enough to make a run for the next two years. Then after two years when we are more cap crunched, you hope you have seen the Marlies spit out a few viable pieces that can help the big club.

The trade JVR logic has to come with the idea that his return will yield a player that will help us in the next few years. I dont think that will be the case, because of the holes in JVR's game that guys like you use as reasoning to not keep him around long term.

Though a JVR trade may also indirectly lead to the Leafs getting that D man they need. Ie say flip him for a 1st and good prospect, which can then be added with other assets for a pacakage that could then get such a player.

 

[The CyNick]

Though a JVR trade may also indirectly lead to the Leafs getting that D man they need. Ie say flip him for a 1st and good prospect, which can then be added with other assets for a pacakage that could then get such a player.

I just dont see that deal working. You have to assume a 1st for JVR would be in the 22-31 range. I dont think that type of pick brings back the type of young D we are looking for.

The more realistic trade to get a legit young D would be Nylander, but I dont think thats a great idea, of course it depends on who is coming back.

 

[Menzinger]

I just dont see that deal working. You have to assume a 1st for JVR would be in the 22-31 range. I dont think that type of pick brings back the type of young D we are looking for.

The more realistic trade to get a legit young D would be Nylander, but I dont think thats a great idea, of course it depends on who is coming back.

You package that 1st with other assets like say Kapanen, and maybe the Leafs own 1st and that could buy you a pretty good player.

For reference - Hamilton got traded to the Flames for the #15 pick and a pair of 2nds.

 

[Kiwi]

great strategy, but who are these D-men we will be spending money on down the road? Most likely, we will need to find help from within, so those guys will be on the cheap, just like the guys you expect to replace JVR.

Another option would be keep the guys like JVR and Bozak until their deals run out, sign some vets to short term deals, and hope that shores up the D enough to make a run for the next two years. Then after two years when we are more cap crunched, you hope you have seen the Marlies spit out a few viable pieces that can help the big club.

The trade JVR logic has to come with the idea that his return will yield a player that will help us in the next few years. I dont think that will be the case, because of the holes in JVR's game that guys like you use as reasoning to not keep him around long term.

You can get one in UFA with the extra salary you would have but I'm not keen on that myself
If you got a 1st for JVR as part of the package add that to our 1st and throw in one of our 2nds that's a pretty good package to go out looking for a Dman
We also have some pretty nice forwards to move if needs be as well

They only things not off the table to trade for a Dman are
Mathews Marner Nylander Reilly Zaitsev (Kadri would need a hell of a return before I'd move him but I would)

 

[White Shadow]

You can get one in UFA with the extra salary you would have but I'm not keen on that myself
If you got a 1st for JVR as part of the package add that to our 1st and throw in one of our 2nds that's a pretty good package to go out looking for a Dman
We also have some pretty nice forwards to move if needs be as well

They only things not off the table to trade for a Dman are
Mathews Marner Nylander Reilly Zaitsev (Kadri would need a hell of a return before I'd move him but I would)

To me, this is the best route to go if the JVR + option doesn't land you the same player. I wouldn't be opposed to moving Zaitsev though, he's about to get a lot more expensive and brings a lot of the same qualities to the table Rielly already has. I'd move him, but only if it got us a more complimentary player for Rielly.

 

[The CyNick]

You package that 1st with other assets like say Kapanen, and maybe the Leafs own 1st and that could buy you a pretty good player.

For reference - Hamilton got traded to the Flames for the #15 pick and a pair of 2nds.

unique circumstance where Boston wasn't going to be able to match offers on him.

 

[The CyNick]

You can get one in UFA with the extra salary you would have but I'm not keen on that myself
If you got a 1st for JVR as part of the package add that to our 1st and throw in one of our 2nds that's a pretty good package to go out looking for a Dman
We also have some pretty nice forwards to move if needs be as well

They only things not off the table to trade for a Dman are
Mathews Marner Nylander Reilly Zaitsev (Kadri would need a hell of a return before I'd move him but I would)

teams arent looking to help the Leafs round out their core by giving away very good young D for 2nd and 3rd tier assets. it'll cost us Nylander or Marner.

 

[Kiwi]

To me, this is the best route to go if the JVR + option doesn't land you the same player. I wouldn't be opposed to moving Zaitsev though, he's about to get a lot more expensive and brings a lot of the same qualities to the table Rielly already has. I'd move him, but only if it got us a more complimentary player for Rielly.

Zaitsev is a top 4 RD that can move the puck so I'd be loathed to move him
He will be cost controlled to hopefully for a good amount of time into the future
I'd move Gardiner because he's a LD and I think Dermott can take his place in a year or two and Gardiner is up for a new deal in the near future
I don't see a Zaitsev replacement in the prospect pool anytime soon
I like Carrick but he's a bottom pairing guy at this stage and I'm not sure if he ends up as a top 4 D and after that it's crickets

 

[Kiwi]

teams arent looking to help the Leafs round out their core by giving away very good young D for 2nd and 3rd tier assets. it'll cost us Nylander or Marner.

2 1sts + are not second tier assets

In a league with a hard cap that offer would get some serious interest

 

[Fouad]

Only in the offseason. More potential buyers and it won't hurt the chemistry for the playoff run. What top flight young D prospect could you squeeze for him?

 

[White Shadow]

Zaitsev is a top 4 RD that can move the puck so I'd be loathed to move him
He will be cost controlled to hopefully for a good amount of time into the future
I'd move Gardiner because he's a LD and I think Dermott can take his place in a year or two and Gardiner is up for a new deal in the near future
I don't see a Zaitsev replacement in the prospect pool anytime soon
I like Carrick but he's a bottom pairing guy at this stage and I'm not sure if he ends up as a top 4 D and after that it's crickets

Gardiner is by far the preferred guy to move for a #1 RHD. But if moving Zaitsev lands us a guy like Lindholm, Trouba, or Brodin, I'd do it. I'd probably do it for Pesce too.

Zaitsev has the unique advantage of being X draft exempt, this increases his current value but only til June 17th.

 

[The CyNick]

2 1sts + are not second tier assets

In a league with a hard cap that offer would get some serious interest

it depends on the picks. A 24th and a 28th doesnt get you someone like say Seth Jones. It likely gets you a second tier young D. Only way a trade like that works is if you're talking about a team that cant afford to pay for a player heading into RFA status (like Hamilton). I cant think of a team that would be looking to trade away a top tier young D for a couple late firsts. Why would they do it?

Would love to proven wrong, but I wont be.

 

[The CyNick]

Gardiner is by far the preferred guy to move for a #1 RHD. But if moving Zaitsev lands us a guy like Lindholm, Trouba, or Brodin, I'd do it. I'd probably do it for Pesce too.

Zaitsev has the unique advantage of being X draft exempt, this increases his current value but only til June 17th.

Who is going to trade a #1 RHD for Gardiner? Try to float that on the trade board and see how well it is received.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Leafs should not just dump JVR for picks. The only trade that really makes sense is trading JVR for a dman, and those types of trades take place in the offseason not at the deadline. Unless you can find two trades to make...I.e. dump JVR and get Shattenkirk.

 

[White Shadow]

Who is going to trade a #1 RHD for Gardiner? Try to float that on the trade board and see how well it is received.

Jesus, keep up please.

The plus was implied, just like it was in JVR +, Zaitsev +, Gardiner +

 

[Kiwi]

it depends on the picks. A 24th and a 28th doesnt get you someone like say Seth Jones. It likely gets you a second tier young D. Only way a trade like that works is if you're talking about a team that cant afford to pay for a player heading into RFA status (like Hamilton). I cant think of a team that would be looking to trade away a top tier young D for a couple late firsts. Why would they do it?

Would love to proven wrong, but I wont be.

Our first could easily be in the early teens
Just like the JVR pick could easily be low 20's

Normally I'd agree with you on availability of defenseman but with the expansion draft around the corner things could be much more fluid
Especially when we have expansion draft exempt pieces to deal back to the other team
In both picks and young exempt forwards

 

[Kiwi]

Gardiner is by far the preferred guy to move for a #1 RHD. But if moving Zaitsev lands us a guy like Lindholm, Trouba, or Brodin, I'd do it. I'd probably do it for Pesce too.

Zaitsev has the unique advantage of being X draft exempt, this increases his current value but only til June 17th.

That's one of the reasons I'd not deal Zaitsev
You can add to the backend and not lose anyone important in out top 4 that would be the ideal scenario
Gardiner is only a potential trade candidate for me because of his future cap hit and our ability to fill his position long term internally

 

[Mad Brills*]

such a soft player.... sad!

 

[Menzinger]

teams arent looking to help the Leafs round out their core by giving away very good young D for 2nd and 3rd tier assets. it'll cost us Nylander or Marner.

Depends on what kind of player the Leafs are trying to buy. A clear cut top pairing guy - probably not. But 2 1sts as a base of a package could buy a young top 4 though.

 

[White Shadow]

That's one of the reasons I'd not deal Zaitsev
You can add to the backend and not lose anyone important in out top 4 that would be the ideal scenario
Gardiner is only a potential trade candidate for me because of his future cap hit and our ability to fill his position long term internally

I know it's Babs' preference to have a balanced shot defense, but it's not like he hasn't worked with the alternative.

The 2014 Wings were 5 LHD to 1 RHD

 

[The CyNick]

Jesus, keep up please.

The plus was implied, just like it was in JVR +, Zaitsev +, Gardiner +

So we talking like Gardiner plus Nylander or is this one of those threads where we pretend that Kapanen is a major get?

 

[The CyNick]

Our first could easily be in the early teens
Just like the JVR pick could easily be low 20's

Normally I'd agree with you on availability of defenseman but with the expansion draft around the corner things could be much more fluid
Especially when we have expansion draft exempt pieces to deal back to the other team
In both picks and young exempt forwards

Expansion draft or not, teams won't be giving away top guys. At best, a team will give you their 4th best D that doesn't need to be protected. When you go through most depth charts, those players are not difference makers.

 

[The CyNick]

Depends on what kind of player the Leafs are trying to buy. A clear cut top pairing guy - probably not. But 2 1sts as a base of a package could buy a young top 4 though.

Again, need names to have a rational conversation.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Go for a vet/mid-tier dman, like demers.

No way we give UP big assets for jv. I'd rather see both bozie and him go now.

 

[Kiwi]

I know it's Babs' preference to have a balanced shot defense, but it's not like he hasn't worked with the alternative.

The 2014 Wings were 5 LHD to 1 RHD

Sliding Rielly over is not ideal he's young and still finding his way and Gardiner is an adventure on his strong side let alone forcing him to play his offside

The guy we get either needs to be a RD or have the ability to play his offside

If the guy is top 4 and cheap you can make due but if your giving up 2 1sts + I'd want someone quite close to ideal since that's a solid package and not bit parts being traded away