I appreciate what Saros brings to the team but this is a dumb contract and will hurt the organization down the line.
He made some tangential comments in his post-FA presser. But I don't think we need to really read too much anymore into what Trotz says publicly... I don't think he's "dishonest" at all in his public comments... but he's also very "eager/keen" and his actions at the end of the day will probably always override whatever he might have said publicly?Was there a presser where Trotz explained his thinking on the extension as well as his thoughts on Askarov?
This is exactly right. Askarov hasn't proven anything yet. If and when he proves he deserves to be the starter, Trotz will figure something out.I guarantee he tells Askarov and his agent to win the starting job and the team will figure it out. He bought out Duchene whose contract was larger than Saros is.
This, but also I will just keep re-iterating that I don't think Trotz really needed to hand out ALL the candy that he did to Saros. The guy wanted to stay here, and if we were a little more "ruthless" we could have leveraged that. Oh well.This is exactly right. Askarov hasn't proven anything yet. If and when he proves he deserves to be the starter, Trotz will figure something out.
You have to think if Askarov ends up outstanding but Saros is still decent Saros would agree to waive rather than be the backup. We would probably have to retain but that shouldn't be a problem. And if Saros craters and is terrible then he will get bought out. But the chances of him getting that bad, that fast have to be pretty slim, as are the chances of Askarov taking the starters spot anytime before 26-27, and by then our "Stamkos window" will be closing so we will have shot our shot and done the best we can
To what end? Piss off the guy badly enough that he says "screw you" and leaves next summer? I don't think Trotz could have leveraged enough to make a difference. The NMC was probably the most important thing to saros and he likely gave us a break on the AAV to get it. The term is pretty irrelevant. No way he would sign for less than 6 or 7 years and that would have probably been at a higher AAV so would have basically been a wash.This, but also I will just keep re-iterating that I don't think Trotz really needed to hand out ALL the candy that he did to Saros. The guy wanted to stay here, and if we were a little more "ruthless" we could have leveraged that. Oh well.
6 years and no NMC is something I do still firmly believe Saros would have ultimately agreed to. Maybe that is "fantasy". But he wanted to be here, and that would have also been a very nice contract for him. I would have waited until June 30th, 2025, if that's what it took to figure out if such a deal was going to fly or not. Trotz was impatient, he signed a guy who just underperformed to a contract based on historical data. If Saros bounces back as a Vezina candidate it's all good. I don't think he will. But that's what the Preds are expecting here.To what end? Piss off the guy badly enough that he says "screw you" and leaves next summer? I don't think Trotz could have leveraged enough to make a difference. The NMC was probably the most important thing to saros and he likely gave us a break on the AAV to get it. The term is pretty irrelevant. No way he would sign for less than 6 or 7 years and that would have probably been at a higher AAV so would have basically been a wash.
There were basically two options: Sign him long term for terms that aren't ideal but he will sign, or trade him. There is no fantasy world where he agrees to a 4 or 5 year deal or signs now without a NMC
For sure, Saros got everything HE wanted. That's a sweet sweet deal for him.He kind of did since he can be traded afer year 6 as it is... I could also see him waiving for an expansion draft if he knew Askarov was Rinne 2.0 to get another couple years starting. NHL conracts are real money. He got the Payday he wanted.
You're being silly if you think he would have signed June 30 2025. If he was going to go that far he would surely go to July 1 and see what else was out there. I know he wanted to stay but I suspect he wasn't desperate to stay. Obviously no one will ever know, but I think your scenario is highly unlikley6 years and no NMC is something I do still firmly believe Saros would have ultimately agreed to. Maybe that is "fantasy". But he wanted to be here, and that would have also been a very nice contract for him. I would have waited until June 30th, 2025, if that's what it took to figure out if such a deal was going to fly or not. Trotz was impatient, he signed a guy who just underperformed to a contract based on historical data. If Saros bounces back as a Vezina candidate it's all good. I don't think he will. But that's what the Preds are expecting here.
Dunno I'd almost rather be left with a question mark rather than that contract. I mean he himself could fill one year of that question mark if you did absolutely nothing. There were other options available that didn't include giving a 30 year old goalie an 8 year deal with a full NMC that hampers you if expansion rolls around or Askarov does turn out to be good 3-4 years down the road.If you compare Saros, Hellebuyck, and Sorokin's stats over the last several years there really isn't much difference between them and he signed a contract that is completely in line with what those two signed last offseason. Maybe we could have played hardball and gotten slightly more favorable terms but that relies on us trying to guess how much Saros actually wants to be here. The downside to that is also if things go south and he walks then you're left with a complete question mark in goal after adding a bunch of guys to try and make a push as a contender.
You've been holding onto that creation in your head for well over a year now, its time to let it go. Those of us that wanted him traded a year ago sat right here and argued with everyone that it was going to take 8 years and a NMC to sign him, which is why we wanted him traded.6 years and no NMC is something I do still firmly believe Saros would have ultimately agreed to. Maybe that is "fantasy". But he wanted to be here, and that would have also been a very nice contract for him. I would have waited until June 30th, 2025, if that's what it took to figure out if such a deal was going to fly or not. Trotz was impatient, he signed a guy who just underperformed to a contract based on historical data. If Saros bounces back as a Vezina candidate it's all good. I don't think he will. But that's what the Preds are expecting here.
I absolutely would take the question mark. And I have no great faith in Askarov either.Dunno I'd almost rather be left with a question mark rather than that contract. I mean he himself could fill one year of that question mark if you did absolutely nothing. There were other options available that didn't include giving a 30 year old goalie an 8 year deal with a full NMC that hampers you if expansion rolls around or Askarov does turn out to be good 3-4 years down the road.
I will agree on one point. I don't get the feeling the contract was heavily negotiated on the org's end given how quickly it was signed.I absolutely would take the question mark. And I have no great faith in Askarov either.
I will never ever never let go of my belief that the Preds could have talked him down from that contract. I don't believe they tried very hard, because end of the day I don't think Trotz is that concerned about things like Expansion drafts and buyouts and so on. He just isn't a cautious thinker when it comes to managing, which is an interesting contrast to his coaching approach. We'll see how it plays out in the end. Being a little reckless and throwing caution to the wind is something we haven't seen before here. If it pays off, nobody will care that he took these risks and handed out candy contracts like he thought July 1st was Hallowe'en. If it blows up in his face, I'm all ready to pile on. But we've got a few years before we'll know.
I mean you can hold onto it, but the proof is in the pudding. It ended up exactly where we thought when we all said he needed to be traded. Now we are stuck with it.I absolutely would take the question mark. And I have no great faith in Askarov either.
I will never ever never let go of my belief that the Preds could have talked him down from that contract. I don't believe they tried very hard, because end of the day I don't think Trotz is that concerned about things like Expansion drafts and buyouts and so on. He just isn't a cautious thinker when it comes to managing, which is an interesting contrast to his coaching approach. We'll see how it plays out in the end. Being a little reckless and throwing caution to the wind is something we haven't seen before here. If it pays off, nobody will care that he took these risks and handed out candy contracts like he thought July 1st was Hallowe'en. If it blows up in his face, I'm all ready to pile on. But we've got a few years before we'll know.
Let me ask you one question; name a comparable player who accepted anything less than the 8-year max allowed. If you can name one or even many, I would say these are the exceptions, not the rule.I absolutely would take the question mark. And I have no great faith in Askarov either.
I will never ever never let go of my belief that the Preds could have talked him down from that contract. I don't believe they tried very hard, because end of the day I don't think Trotz is that concerned about things like Expansion drafts and buyouts and so on. He just isn't a cautious thinker when it comes to managing, which is an interesting contrast to his coaching approach. We'll see how it plays out in the end. Being a little reckless and throwing caution to the wind is something we haven't seen before here. If it pays off, nobody will care that he took these risks and handed out candy contracts like he thought July 1st was Hallowe'en. If it blows up in his face, I'm all ready to pile on. But we've got a few years before we'll know.
Has there been someone that 100% refused to waive? That shit just means they can control where they get traded to, just like McDonagh.Agreed . Also if Saris is valuable in 4 years when we truly have to get younger he’s likely willing to waive his trade protection.
WRT Halak....8M is soon to be the new 6M with cap raising. If you dont give Saros 8 years you pay more dollars and that kills the short term cup window going by how the team is assembled right now.
Halak who is a smaller goalie like Saros played well into his mid-late 30s in the NHL, I dont see any reason why Saros wouldn't be able to do the same.