Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Goals Against per 60 5v5

1. Holl 1.72
2. Giordano 2.01
3. Muzzin 2.41
4. Brodie 2.43
5. Liljegren 2.64
6. Rielly 3.33
7. Lyubushkin 3.94


Goals For per 60 5v5

1. Liljegren 4.76
2. Brodie 4.02
3. Muzzin 3.96
4. Giordano 2.86
5. Holl 1.96
6. Rielly 1.69
7. Lyubushkin 1.04


Goals For Percentage 5v5

1. Liljegren 64.3%
2. Brodie 62.3%
3. Muzzin 62.2%
4. Giordano 58.7%
5. Holl 53.2%
6. RIelly 33.7%
7. Lyubushkin 20.9%




Expected Goals Against per 60 5v5

1. Holl 1.34
2. Brodie 2.17
3. Giordano 2.24
4. Muzzin 2.66
5. Rielly 3.09
6. Lyubushkin 3.57
7. Liljegren 4.11


Expected Goals For per 60 5v5

1. Giordano 2.98
2. Holl 2.97
3. Rielly 2.61
4. Muzzin 2.57
5. Brodie 2.56
6. Lyubushkin 2.37
7. Liljegren 1.82


Expected Goals For Percentage 5v5

1. Holl 68.9%
2. Giordano 57.1%
3. Brodie 54.1%
4. Muzzin 49.2%
5. Rielly 45.8%
6. Lyubushkin 39.9%
7. Liljegren 30.7%




Other metrics I don't usually use but just for further confirmation:


Shots For Percentage 5v5

1. Giordano 59.5%
2. Holl 53.6%
3. Brodie 52.7%
4. Liljegren 50.5%
5. Muzzin 49.9%
6. Rielly 47.0%
7. Lyubushkin 37.7%


Unblocked Shot Attempts For Percentage 5v5

1. Giordano 56.7%
2. Brodie 55.4%
3. Holl 55.2%
4. Muzzin 51.9%
5. Rielly 50.1%
6. Lyubushkin 41.8%
7. Liljegren 41.4%


Total Shot Attempts For Percentage 5v5

1. Giordano 53.0%
2. Brodie 51.3%
3. Holl 51.2%
4. Rielly 46.9%
5. Muzzin 46.7%
6. Liljegren 41.6%
7. Lyubushkin 39.0%




Poor Mo.

Holl seems to get a lot of ice time when the Matthews line is on and Matthews gets a lot of offensive starts, both would skew the stats a lot.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Holl seems to get a lot of ice time when the Matthews line is on and Matthews gets a lot of offensive starts, both would skew the stats a lot.

Holl's off zone per 60 is the exact same as his def zone per 60, the guy had a neutral zone deployment.

 

[zeke]

Holl seems to get a lot of ice time when the Matthews line is on and Matthews gets a lot of offensive starts, both would skew the stats a lot.

no he doesn't.

Holl has had the toughest deployment on the team for the last 3 years.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't care what misguided analytics tell you (because they are not ready yet for decision making) .. Holl does not have NHL level skills .. his skating is AHL level and his defensive brain operates at AHL level .. bottom line you can't ice a playoff roster with too many guys who have AHL level skills

 

[Carltons Cup]

I don't care what misguided analytics tell you (because they are not ready yet for decision making) .. Holl does not have NHL level skills .. his skating is AHL level and his defensive brain operates at AHL level .. bottom line you can't ice a playoff roster with too many guys who have AHL level skills

You also forgot to add in the following - for a guy who's 6'3" he plays like he's 5'3" and is scared to engage in any sort of contact.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You also forgot to add in the following - for a guy who's 6'3" he plays like he's 5'3" and is scared to engage in any sort of contact.

To be fair to Holl and I have seen him at various camps with my kid and with Marlies for some time he is not scared .. I have seen him take some massive hits to make plays .. but he does not have a nasty side to him as a person .. he does not physically engage for sure .. not sure why but i think it is just his personality really .. he has da strength and size but he decides not to use either

 

[DarkKnight]

I thought he was pretty good when he got back in, but I’m not sure where he fits with Sandin and Lil clearly in the mix next year.

The guys working overtime to turn this guy into our go to defensive stalwart, I just don’t get it.

 

[PromisedLand]

Look at Justin Holl in this clip and ask yourself is Holl not a moron? and Keefe a bigger moron?

No really focus on Holl (and marner's puck pressure on puck carrier)

And then ask yourself did the GM go out of his way to protect this pylon? (yes he did!)

 

[Lemontree]

no he doesn't.

Holl has had the toughest deployment on the team for the last 3 years.

No......he just makes it look that way.

If there are any advanced metrics that make Justin Holl appear to be a competent second pairing Dman, it shows the massive disconnect between advance stats and actual on ice impact/performance.

 

[DarkKnight]

You also forgot to add in the following - for a guy who's 6'3" he plays like he's 5'3" and is scared to engage in any sort of contact.

If I bet a dollar every board battle, I’d be posting from the Caymans.

 

[zeke]

No......he just makes it look that way.

If there are any advanced metrics that make Justin Holl appear to be a competent second pairing Dman, it shows the massive disconnect between advance stats and actual on ice impact/performance.

you don't need advanced stats - regular old stats say the exact same thing. Your plus/minus, hits, blocks, etc.

and yes, he has always received amongst the toughest deployment on the team.

 

[DarkKnight]

No......he just makes it look that way.

If there are any advanced metrics that make Justin Holl appear to be a competent second pairing Dman, it shows the massive disconnect between advance stats and actual on ice impact/performance.

He’s so great, the coach didn’t even start him for the playoffs, a true shutdown dynamo. I mean. He’s a good depth D, that’s it. He was fine in the series actually, but not a core D.

 

[zeke]

Look at Justin Holl in this clip and ask yourself is Holl not a moron? and Keefe a bigger moron?

No really focus on Holl (and marner's puck pressure on puck carrier)

And then ask yourself did the GM go out of his way to protect this pylon? (yes he did!)

Holl's teammates got beat twice that shift, he saved the first one which made him a step too late to save the second one.

 

[PromisedLand]

Holl's teammates got beat twice that shift, he saved the first one which made him a step too late to save the second one.

is there a BS/60 stat for this that shows Holl didn't F up on that play?

Holl is garbage! There was a reason he didn't start the playoffs.

Holl also kept giving away pucks and possession in Game 7.

I am so done with your schtick on Holl there bud. I don't think I have the patience to carry on a conversation in a civil manner when it comes to you and Holl and I don't want to be infracted so I will leave it at that.

 

[Lemontree]

Look at Justin Holl in this clip and ask yourself is Holl not a moron? and Keefe a bigger moron?

No really focus on Holl (and marner's puck pressure on puck carrier)

He completely misreads the puck in the natural zone and it slow to react that tampa puck carrier is attacking with speed..... by the time the puck carrier enters the zone Holl is just attempting his stop which is very high in our D zone.

Marner forces the puck carrier to the boards where the puck carrier is not a shooting threat and only option now is to be a passer. Holl follows the puck carrier into the corner (no shooting threat) and leaves the slot wide open for the trailing TB player. He clumsily and slowly glides back to the front of the net without any purpose and does not bury Point who is whacking away at a rebound (take the penalty in situation like this to prevent an OT goal - maybe you kill it off, maybe you don't but you have extended the game for the time being). I am almost certain that if Point didn't score than Holl would have knocked the puck into his own net as he makes contact with Campbell and sends his backwards (if puck was in Campbell's pads it would have likely come loose and into the back of the net).

 

[Lemontree]

you don't need advanced stats - regular old stats say the exact same thing. Your plus/minus, hits, blocks, etc.

and yes, he has always received amongst the toughest deployment on the team.

Justin Holl 2022 NHL playoffs (5gp):

17 hits (finished tied for 5 on the Leafs - in 2 less games played)
7 Block Shots (All 5 D regulars finished with more & finished 7th on the Leafs).

I'm sorry, for a guy with 0 puck skills and brings nothing to the offensive side of the game......these numbers do not justify playing him in the lineup).

 

[zeke]

is there a BS/60 stat for this that shows Holl didn't F up on that play?

Holl is garbage! There was a reason he didn't start the playoffs.

Holl also kept giving away pucks and possession in Game 7.

I am so done with your schtick on Holl there bud. I don't think I have the patience to carry on a conversation in a civil manner when it comes to you and Holl and I don't want to be infracted so I will leave it at that.

watch the play.

 

[DarkKnight]

He’s the 9 next year if everyone remains.

 

[ACC1224]

He’s the 9 next year if everyone remains.

So he's no longer top 4?

Or is that just a case of the 'elite' depth and everyone is top 4?

 

[DarkKnight]

So he's no longer top 4?

Good depth? Top 4’s don’t sit to start a series. I mean…

 

[Beyonder91]

watch the play.

It's just another example of Holl's bad decision making. He completely committed to the corner and didn't even have pressure on the Tampa player. He put himself in no man's land where he is praying that the puck deflects off him.

That left a 2 on 1 in the slot. The only way Holl should leave the slot area is if the Leafs have numbers in front of the net which they did not.

He is very bad at reading the game, a poor breakout pass and doesn't have any offensive hockey sense whatsoever.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

no he doesn't.

Holl has had the toughest deployment on the team for the last 3 years.

I saw him on often in these playoffs with the Matthews line bobbling the puck and killing offence chances.

 

[saffronleaf]

Look at Justin Holl in this clip and ask yourself is Holl not a moron? and Keefe a bigger moron?

No really focus on Holl (and marner's puck pressure on puck carrier)

And then ask yourself did the GM go out of his way to protect this pylon? (yes he did!)

bunting is about to clear it out when holl pokes it in. sometimes you wonder which team he's playing for.

 

[saffronleaf]

It's just another example of Holl's bad decision making. He completely committed to the corner and didn't even have pressure on the Tampa player. He put himself in no man's land where he is praying that the puck deflects off him.

That left a 2 on 1 in the slot. The only way Holl should leave the slot area is if the Leafs have numbers in front of the net which they did not.

He is very bad at reading the game, a poor breakout pass and doesn't have any offensive hockey sense whatsoever.

exactly. really don't see how that play is flattering for holl

 

[Tak7]

I'm hardly a Justin Holl fan, but when he plays, he plays a lot of minutes and is a pretty critical PKer.
Right handed, and cheap.
I just don't think we see him moved