Justin Holl Cannot Play Another Minute In The Playoffs

[Oscar Peterson]

Holl was walked multiple times last night.

He made a bad decision on the first goal and went for a big hit in the neutral zone and missed. Leading to the goal.

He was walked on the 2nd goal and turned in the wrong way to try and defend against the faster player. Sammy also played that incorrectly but Holl was exposed badly on 2 of the 3 goals. This isn't new either.

Matthews scored twice in the 3rd of game 4 to help take that game to OT and eventually the win.

The top 6 has been fine. The only guy I'm not crazy about up there right now been JT and his inability to execute / finish on his chances to score. He has 6 points in 5 games and is a -1. We do need more from him.

In game 2 on the Ian Cole goal, I actually saw reporters blaming O'Reilly, when what happened was the Leafs had amazing momentum, Holl starts skating the puck out of our zone, he has Matthews and Nylander open and flying to his left, decides to over complicate the play for no reason, looks off both of those guys and forces the puck to a stationary O'Reilly at the blue line who isn't in any position to receive the pass, gets turned over, and then Holl ends up missing his poke check and getting dangled by Ian Cole for the goal.

Couldn't believe that nobody in the intermission was calling him out for such a brutal neutral zone / break out play that gave Tampa a chance to come back for absolutely zero reason.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Holl was walked multiple times last night.

He made a bad decision on the first goal and went for a big hit in the neutral zone and missed. Leading to the goal.

He was walked on the 2nd goal and turned in the wrong way to try and defend against the faster player. Sammy also played that incorrectly but Holl was exposed badly on 2 of the 3 goals. This isn't new either.

Matthews scored twice in the 3rd of game 4 to help take that game to OT and eventually the win.

The top 6 has been fine. The only guy I'm not crazy about up there right now been JT and his inability to execute / finish on his chances to score. He has 6 points in 5 games and is a -1. We do need more from him.

They are not paying Matthews and Marner 11 M each to be “fine” they are paying them to be extra ordinary. “Fine” doesn’t cut it.

 

[fahad203]

He can and he will

 

[AvroArrow]

They can be better no doubt but the game is more difficult when 1) playing from behind as well as how 2) deflating soft goals can be to the Team.
Holl is 100% responsible for the last two points.

Fair, my point is people are outraged by Holl. I'm not saying they shouldn't be. But why do our star guys get a pass for being no shows for almost 60 minutes ?

 

[ACC1224]

Fair, my point is people are outraged by Holl. I'm not saying they shouldn't be. But why do our star guys get a pass for being no shows for almost 60 minutes ?

First guess would be that this is a Holl thread.

They'll get some heat as well.

 

[Pebble live]

They are not paying Matthews and Marner 11 M each to be “fine” they are paying them to be extra ordinary. “Fine” doesn’t cut it.

Marner has 11 points and matthews has 8 in 5 games lol wtf else do you want from them? They are paid to put up goals and points. It's exactly what they are doing. While having some of the best defensive metrics on the team...

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Real question for you all

Our top 6 scored zero goals for 57 minutes last game.

Holl is a 6D, he sucks but he plays like a 6D

Why are we not asking more from our stars ? Why are we asking for so much from our worst D-man ? Yes he sucks I agree, but if our top 6 that's making like 50M scores a goal in the first 57 minutes of last nights game, we're having a different conversation here.

We didn't lose because of our #6 D man, we lost because our stars failed to convert and lost the battle to Vasilevsky.

Matthews: 4G 8P
Marner: 2G 11P
Nylander: 2G 7P
Tavares: 3G 6P
Total: 11 goals, 32 points

Kucherov: 1G 6P
Point: 2G 4P
Stamkos: 1G 3P
Killorn: 3G 5P
Total: 7G, 18 points

The Leafs top players have been producing, and they've been better than Tampa's top guys. You can throw in Rielly producing better than Hedman too if you want, and RoR has been great too. Meanwhile, Justin Holl has been on the ice for more 5v5 goals against than anyone else. It's so obvious which players have been good and which players have struggled, I'm really not sure what you're seeing

 

[Buds17]

Real question for you all

Our top 6 scored zero goals for 57 minutes last game.

Holl is a 6D, he sucks but he plays like a 6D

Why are we not asking more from our stars ? Why are we asking for so much from our worst D-man ? Yes he sucks I agree, but if our top 6 that's making like 50M scores a goal in the first 57 minutes of last nights game, we're having a different conversation here.

We didn't lose because of our #6 D man, we lost because our stars failed to convert and lost the battle to Vasilevsky.

It does seem slightly more reasonable to expect a 4-3 win (to offset what Samsonov and the defence essentially surrendered) over a 2-1 score (to coincide with what the offence was able to muster). It couldn't hurt the cause to ask for improvement at either facet of the game though.

 

[Jojalu]

I am about 99% sure he won't be in the lineup next game.

I really hope you are correct.

 

[Pebble live]

Matthews: 4G 8P
Marner: 2G 11P
Nylander: 2G 7P
Tavares: 3G 6P
Total: 11 goals, 32 points

Kucherov: 1G 6P
Point: 2G 4P
Stamkos: 1G 3P
Killorn: 3G 5P
Total: 7G, 18 points

The Leafs top players have been producing, and they've been better than Tampa's top guys. You can throw in Rielly producing better than Hedman too if you want, and RoR has been great too. Meanwhile, Justin Holl has been on the ice for more 5v5 goals against than anyone else. It's so obvious which players have been good and which players have struggled, I'm really not sure what you're seeing

Good breakdown. People trying to shit on the top 6 right now are delusional. We need some help from ZAR, Lafferty, Kampf.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Marner has 11 points and matthews has 8 in 5 games lol wtf else do you want from them? They are paid to put up goals and points. It's exactly what they are doing. While having some of the best defensive metrics on the team...

Maybe finish off the Lightning? That would be a start.

 

[Rob Brown]

He can and he will

Sadly I can see this happening.

 

[LeafSteel]

Nice to see you're looking at the bright side of this.

……. Aaaaaaaaand I’m dead. Just dead…..

 

[Jojalu]

If Keefe insists on playing Holl, maybe he pulls a Cooper and goes 11/7.

I am almost certain this is the route he will choose.

Which if it allows Matthews/Marner etc to get more ice time then I don't hate it.

Or just go 12/6 and still play Matrhews and Marner more

 

[GoonieFace]

E5- Holl and Perbix are euchre partners. All makes sense now

 

[Jojalu]

Marner has 11 points and matthews has 8 in 5 games lol wtf else do you want from them? They are paid to put up goals and points. It's exactly what they are doing. While having some of the best defensive metrics on the team...

Agreed. If there was a MVP per round it would be between Hintz, Drai and Marner right now. Maybe Hall.

Regardless, if the Leafs don't win the series then it's all for not.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I think we all have to prepare ourselves for Justin Holl being in the lineup in game 6. I just cannot see a scenario where Keefe puts Lilly into this lineup stone cold after shelfing him the last 2.5 weeks. Like talk about throwing a guy into a terrible situation.

That said, Holl cost us the game yesterday. Almost exclusively. Sure, there were guys who did not come up to bail him out when he made his mistakes, but my god if that is what is needed for him to be succesful I think it's time he hits the press box.

But I'll be real with you, everything that Sheldon has done in the past, coupled with his stupid post game comments about Holl not being the only guy on the ice, I just cannot see him coming out of the lineup.

That's not to say we cannot get the job done with Justin in the lineup. He can play good hockey for us. He's just gotta step up and be 10x better then anything he's shown thus far

 

[Future]

I think we all have to prepare ourselves for Justin Holl being in the lineup in game 6. I just cannot see a scenario where Keefe puts Lilly into this lineup stone cold after shelfing him the last 2.5 weeks. Like talk about throwing a guy into a terrible situation.

That said, Holl cost us the game yesterday. Almost exclusively. Sure, there were guys who did not come up to bail him out when he made his mistakes, but my god if that is what is needed for him to be succesful I think it's time he hits the press box.

But I'll be real with you, everything that Sheldon has done in the past, coupled with his stupid post game comments about Holl not being the only guy on the ice, I just cannot see him coming out of the lineup.

That's not to say we cannot get the job done with Justin in the lineup. He can play good hockey for us. He's just gotta step up and be 10x better then anything he's shown thus far

Then he deserves what is coming to him. Unfortunately, this fan base deserves so much better.

 

[AvroArrow]

Matthews: 4G 8P
Marner: 2G 11P
Nylander: 2G 7P
Tavares: 3G 6P
Total: 11 goals, 32 points

Kucherov: 1G 6P
Point: 2G 4P
Stamkos: 1G 3P
Killorn: 3G 5P
Total: 7G, 18 points

The Leafs top players have been producing, and they've been better than Tampa's top guys. You can throw in Rielly producing better than Hedman too if you want, and RoR has been great too. Meanwhile, Justin Holl has been on the ice for more 5v5 goals against than anyone else. It's so obvious which players have been good and which players have struggled, I'm really not sure what you're seeing

The forwards have been great for the series, last night they weren't good enough.

I'm not saying Holl doesn't deserve to be held accountable, he absolutely does. But so do our star guys. They weren't good enough. I'd rather hold our stars to a higher standard opposed to Justin Holl. We weren't good enough all around. Plain and simple. Sammy was bad, Holl was bad, the top 6 wasn't horrible but they were not good enough. They got chances but didn't bury them. I expect more from our top 6 forwards, I don't expect more from Holl.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I agree with you but Keefe will tell us otherwise.

And Keefe could very well lose his job as a result of his unwavering loyalty to Holl.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I hope hope hope that this coaching staff has prepared Schenn to PK cause I’m pretty sure he can watch for that one timer to Stamkos to block it. At this point this is all that Holl is effective at.

Put Lily in with Gio who have been good together before and shelter them if you have to. This fascination with Holl is getting ridiculous (and this is coming from a semi fan of his).

Schenn being sparsely used to kill penalties is odd. It was one of the selling points for acquiring him and he was 4th for defensemen in Vancouver for shorthanded TOI. Now granted, the Canucks PK was awful, dead last in fact, but was Schenn so much of the problem that he’s only seen 3 minutes of total PK time this series? Brodie and Holl lead the way for the defence at 17:30 and 17:20 minutes total, Gio is next at 9:23, then McCabe at 5:50 before Schenn.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think we all have to prepare ourselves for Justin Holl being in the lineup in game 6. I just cannot see a scenario where Keefe puts Lilly into this lineup stone cold after shelfing him the last 2.5 weeks. Like talk about throwing a guy into a terrible situation.

That said, Holl cost us the game yesterday. Almost exclusively. Sure, there were guys who did not come up to bail him out when he made his mistakes, but my god if that is what is needed for him to be succesful I think it's time he hits the press box.

But I'll be real with you, everything that Sheldon has done in the past, coupled with his stupid post game comments about Holl not being the only guy on the ice, I just cannot see him coming out of the lineup.

That's not to say we cannot get the job done with Justin in the lineup. He can play good hockey for us. He's just gotta step up and be 10x better then anything he's shown thus far

Regular season hockey yes you are correct but this is playoff hockey played 10%+ faster than regular season .. you can't make same analysis .. 2 completely different games .. Holl has a difficult time surviving in regular season hockey but it is completely impossible for him at playoff pace

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Holl is literally re incarnating the spirit of Jake Gardiner. How does this not bother anyone?

It's like Gardiner and Aki Berg had a love child!

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

The forwards have been great for the series, last night they weren't good enough.

I'm not saying Holl doesn't deserve to be held accountable, he absolutely does. But so do our star guys. They weren't good enough. I'd rather hold our stars to a higher standard opposed to Justin Holl. We weren't good enough all around. Plain and simple. Sammy was bad, Holl was bad, the top 6 wasn't horrible but they were not good enough. They got chances but didn't bury them. I expect more from our top 6 forwards, I don't expect more from Holl.

They weren't incredible, but it's not like Tampa's top guys were either. They got goals from Eyssimont, Cirelli, and Paul. It wasn't like Kucherov or Point or Stamkos did anything. Holl didn't even look like an NHL player and spotted Tampa a couple of free goals, on top of a complete shitshow of a series from him. Obviously he's going to get more flak than our star players who have been normally great and even in a down game contributed more than Tampa's top guys

 

[Gallagbi]

Good breakdown. People trying to shit on the top 6 right now are delusional. We need some help from ZAR, Lafferty, Kampf.

We need to keep the puck out of our net.