Just How Good Are the 2013-14 Rangers?

[Thirty One]

As I go through this thread, I cant help but think that this is a vision of how you want the Rangers to be, and not what they actually are.

And I can't help but think if you were a Penguin fan, you would be harping on their weaknesses, stating how the Rangers represent a major threat to them.

 

[Fataldogg]

That season.

Del Zotto was close to abysmal for pretty much every other stretch outside of '11-'12 and the first two months of his rookie year.

But the poster was comparing this team to the 11-12 team. Every other roster / performance is a moot point. That SEASON Del Zotto was outstanding.

And Del Zotto wasn't brutal every other season. He had an excellent rookie year as a defense man. Even in 12-13, he was scoring at close to a 40 point clip (despite playing worse defense). Del Zotto wasn't bad for us in his tenure here. Because he was brutal this season, people's memories aren't all there.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

And I can't help but think if you were a Penguin fan, you would be harping on their weaknesses, stating how the Rangers represent a major threat to them.

Perhaps, but much less so.

Dynamic centermen play is a great equalizer to a lot of other weaknesses.

 

[Thirty One]

Perhaps, but much less so.

Dynamic centermen play is a great equalizer to a lot of other weaknesses.

I have a feeling you wouldn't feel that way if your team had dynamic centermen though.

 

[Off Sides]

Skilled team that is not as skilled as some of the other skilled teams. Toughness, as in finishing checks and separating the man from the puck withstanding as I do not expect that from this group.

If Nash were for real, or maybe even if Lundqvist was really back, but he seems like on 95% of what we have seen in the past. Or if Kreider was still hitting, scoring, maybe.

I don't see anything truly dynamic or special going on. For a while pre Olympics they looked pretty good at times, they won at least, but I am not even sure that team plus MSL equate to a contender.

Maybe Zucc really was the player who was causing most of that to happen? Will he still be that player with MSL above him on the depth chart?

They seem to win by committee, which is fine, but when the checking gets tighter, when the other team finishes every check, when they need a goal, I am not so sure I see them being able to pull it off.

But entertainment wise, yes I'd rather watch them actually try to possess the puck through the middle of the ice and attack the other teams net off the rush than the stretch, tip dump stuff they used to always play.

At the very least I have liked the coaching choices to this point, we'll see if that continues.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I have a feeling you wouldn't feel that way if your team had dynamic centermen though.

Somewhere, deep down, you enjoy my negativity.

 

[Beacon]

Fact is, every team has it. Even the best ones. The statistical probability of everyone on a team playing to form is extremely low. Some teams overcome it. We haven't.

That was certainly true in 1994. Glenn Anderson, who cost us Mike Gartner, had a terrible playoff, which is what he was acquired for. He was supposed to be a playoff specialist and instead wound up on the 4th line, which is why Kovalev was shifted from 2C to 1RW.

Matteau is remembered for his two Double OT goals in Games 4 and 7, but he also cost us an OT goal in Game 1 and was terrible in the Finals.

Graves wasn't as good in the playoffs as we had hoped he would be (in fact, as soon as he scored goals 50 and 51 in the same game, he went stone cold even during the regular season).

Karpovtsev was pretty useless in the playoffs (and Old Man Lidster had to step in and overperform).

But that team had so much talent that a few players underperforming didn't stop them from winning.

 

[aufheben]

My wife, who deals with me watching every Ranger game and tries to show interest from time to time, asked me how the Rangers are doing this season.

My answer: "OK some nights, good other nights...far from great"

Spot on. This is what I was saying last night, you never know what team is gonna show up this season: Is Nash gonna be invisible, or a beast tonight? Is Hank gonna be Dank or Stank? Will Derek Stepan win a face-off? Will we be great defensively, or atrocious? Will Dominic Moore be our only offensive threat? Will we score 5 goals, or make scoring 1 look impossible? 60+ games into the season and you still don't know what you'll get on a daily basis with this group.

I don't know why people are responding to your statement with such obtuseness; When did it become taboo to form an opinion by watching all the games? Kinda sad, really...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Spot on. This is what I was saying last night, you never know what team is gonna show up this season: Is Nash gonna be invisible, or a beast tonight? Is Hank gonna be Dank or Stank? Will Derek Stepan win a face-off? Will we be great defensively, or atrocious? Will Dominic Moore be our only offensive threat? Will we score 5 goals, or make scoring 1 look impossible? 60+ games into the season and you still don't know what you'll get on a daily basis with this group.

I don't know why people are responding with such obtuseness; When did it become taboo to form an opinion by watching all the games? Kinda sad, really...

My point was to simplify my thoughts on this team to its lowest form.

I don't think they're a poor team. I don't think they're a great team.

I don't think a thread that grasps at straws about how this team is a "true contender" is necessary.

 

[McRanger]

But the poster was comparing this team to the 11-12 team. Every other roster / performance is a moot point. That SEASON Del Zotto was outstanding.

And Del Zotto wasn't brutal every other season. He had an excellent rookie year as a defense man. Even in 12-13, he was scoring at close to a 40 point clip (despite playing worse defense). Del Zotto wasn't bad for us in his tenure here. Because he was brutal this season, people's memories aren't all there.

Well to be specific he was talking about the Del Zotto-Bickel pair so he obviously wasn't talking about the outstanding work Del Zotto did when Staal was out. He was talking about the 2nd half of the year and the playoffs. And that pair was a mess pretty much the entire time. Often it was a straight up disaster, especially at times in the playoffs. And by that point Del Zotto didn't look much better when he was playing with Girardi or Stralman when Bickel got benched.

Anyway, Del Zotto was a PPG defeseman for the 1st 6 weeks or so of his rookie year. He was bad after that. He was worse his sophomore year. Significantly worse. He was outstanding when Staal was out. He was bad last year. He was bad this year. I dont think people need to strain their memories to remember Del Zotto.

Edit: I should mention that while being a completely different player, John Moore can be and has been equally as torturous as Del Zotto.

 

[Thirty One]

I don't know why people are responding to your statement with such obtuseness; When did it become taboo to form an opinion by watching all the games? Kinda sad, really...

I wouldn't say it's taboo. But I think it's important to recognize the flaws of reaching into your gut as a primary source. Bleed Ranger Blue has joined in with me in mocking this means of evaluation many times in the past.

 

[LORDE]

I'm pissed at Nash this year, but to say that Nash, St. Louis, and Zucc are only good but not great shows me that you have an agenda.

No agenda. None whatsoever.

I try to make an honest assessment.

St. Louis has played one game for us.

Zucc has played well but has only been doing it for just over half a season and I'm not happy with Nash during his time here (as of yet).

We don't have to agree but I don't think I have an "agenda" at all.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I wouldn't say it's taboo. But I think it's important to recognize the flaws of reaching into your gut as a primary source. Bleed Ranger Blue has joined in with me in mocking this means of evaluation many times in the past.

Am I really going with my gut when saying that this is a good, not great, team that is far too prone to bouts of inconsistency?

Is that really going out on a limb? I believe your precious #'s would back up that hypothesis.

 

[JimmyG89]

I don't see how Stepan is not a top line center. He works well in his own zone and has the offense to play in that spot. He has benefited from the Olympics. He got time to watch and even learn from some guys like Stastny, Backes, and Kesler in practice. He also got some rest while not just wasting away for a week. He has looked strong these 4 games. I look for him to play well down there stretch. He has done nothing but prove since entering the league of being a top 6 forward, and now a top line center. He may not be Toews, Crosby, or Datsyuk, but to say he is a middling 2nd liner is pure *********.

 

[Thirty One]

Am I really going with my gut when saying that this is a good, not great, team that is far too prone to bouts of inconsistency?

Is that really going out on a limb? I believe your precious #'s would back up that hypothesis.

My precious numbers... LOL.

Did you discuss the Rangers' Fenwick Close with your wife?

 

[Fitzy]

We need to make the playoffs to be a contender, then we'll start talking more seriously about it.

 

[Thirty One]

We need to make the playoffs to be a contender, then we'll start talking more seriously about it.

I don't know. We appear to be talking about it pretty seriously now.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

We need to make the playoffs to be a contender, then we'll start talking more seriously about it.

Ya know, its interesting. The playoffs are not this foregone conclusion like they seemed to be 3 short games ago.

But Im glad a life and death struggle to make the playoffs has facilitated a conversation about winning the cup.

 

[AHB*]

I don't see how Stepan is not a top line center. He works well in his own zone and has the offense to play in that spot. He has benefited from the Olympics. He got time to watch and even learn from some guys like Stastny, Backes, and Kesler in practice. He also got some rest while not just wasting away for a week. He has looked strong these 4 games. I look for him to play well down there stretch. He has done nothing but prove since entering the league of being a top 6 forward, and now a top line center. He may not be Toews, Crosby, or Datsyuk, but to say he is a middling 2nd liner is pure *********.

Lol, no it's not at all. Only a homer would say he's a top line center right now. He performed at that level for 40 games, that's it.

Lets just look at stats first (without saying how his 40 points this year has been arguably the quietest 40 i've ever witnessed).

There are 60 top 6 centers in the NHL, give or take. Stepan is currently 33rd in points for NHL centers. Take into account guys below him, not playing with a stud like Nash, not getting the same amount of top line ice time/PP time AND having injuries, as Stepan has played every game.

If you put 7-10 of those centers ahead of him, which i certainly do (Sedin, Bergeron, Couture, Datsyuk, M. Richards, to name a few), he is a middling, 2nd line center, at this point, and certainly this season.

Now add into that the fact that his points this year have been largely due to circumstance because of his linemates and placement.

I'm not saying he won't have a good future, or become a high end #2/decent 1B, but to act like he's playing anything better then a decent #2 right now is absurd and frankly, incorrect.

Also, you can consider me impressed by your "faith" in him down this coming stretch, as in past seasons, Stepan has done nothing but disappear when the going gets tough, specifically, in the playoffs. I'll reserve my "faith" for his clutchness, when he, you know, actually shows it for once.

I like the guy, but god is he overrated here. A #1C, please.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers blew a great opportunity to put points in the bank in December,January and the first week of February. They had 21 home games. 9-9-3. The Rangers are 1-2-1 since the Olympic break. Henrik was given the day off on Tuesday. The Rangers are concerned about Olympic fatigue. He looks a little tired. Pucks are going through him again. Talbot played in the Chicago game and he played really well. Their schedule gets tougher this month. The Rangers actually get on a plane and stay in a hotel a few times this month. Next weekend its in Minnesota on Thursday,in Winnipeg on Friday and host the Sharks Sunday afternoon.

 

[AHB*]

The Rangers blew a great opportunity to put points in the bank in December,January and the first week of February. They had 21 home games. 9-9-3. The Rangers are 1-2-1 since the Olympic break. Henrik was given the day off on Tuesday. The Rangers are concerned about Olympic fatigue. He looks a little tired. Pucks are going through him again. Talbot played in the Chicago game and he played really well. Their schedule gets tougher this month. The Rangers actually get on a plane and stay in a hotel a few times this month. Next weekend its in Minnesota on Thursday,in Winnipeg on Friday and host the Sharks Sunday afternoon.

The Road will be good for them. They stink at home. Give Talbot a few starts.

 

[offdacrossbar]

ride talbot as long as we need to. hes been playing well and we play tighter defensively with him in net. we are fortunate to have a guy like that.

give hank some time to rest and practice. regain his focus and heal all wounds.

come playoff time, hank will shine.

and yes. we are making the playoffs. no doubt about it.

 

[Jersey Girl]

If we don't make the playoffs this season the trade turns into an unmitigated disaster.

You can't trade high draft picks then miss the playoffs. Might as well call ourselves the Knicks.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If we don't make the playoffs this season the trade turns into an unmitigated disaster.

You can't trade high draft picks then miss the playoffs. Might as well call ourselves the Knicks.

Hey, at least we keep our 2014 first rounder.

Only Sather can create the type of trap doors where a conference finals appearance could be frowned upon to some degree.

 

[Fitzy]

Ya know, its interesting. The playoffs are not this foregone conclusion like they seemed to be 3 short games ago.

But Im glad a life and death struggle to make the playoffs has facilitated a conversation about winning the cup.

I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy, it's just, you fight one battle at a time. When and if the NYR make the playoffs, we can start looking at matchups and the route to the cup, but right now our playoff odds are like 40%, so I can't be thinking that far ahead.

I like our chances against Philly/Washington/Columbus in the first round but we have to actually get there.