Toggle sidebar

Just How Good Are the 2013-14 Rangers?

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
HatTrick Swayze said:
This is such an absurd argument to me. Based on what, what looks pretty? Just to start...how many times has this team scored a rebound goal where they had to fight through an opposing player? They score a lot of good looking goals but when the perfect play isn't there on a platter they can really struggle to get things going. And it's only going to get harder in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Look at some of the shooting percentages for individual players versus their career averages: Stepan is down 5%. Richards is down over 1%. Nash is down over 2%. Boyle and Pouliot are both down over 3%. The only guys appreciably better than their career averages are Hagelin and McDonagh.

Part of that is symptomatic of the fact that as you said, we struggle in the crease. Still, there's absolutely some bad puck luck involved. We have the third most shots in the league, the third most 5 on 5, and yet we're only shooting at 7.7% as a team. Even for a team that isn't great in front of the net and working through traffic, it's still unusually low when given that we're otherwise of good offensive skill. Our team shooting percentage is third from the bottom, and it's hard to reconcile that with any of the peripheral stats.
 
Blueshirt Believer said:
This season? No. But the St.Louis move was mainly a set up for next season.

I think Sather is going "all in" over the summer. The result will either be glorious or a disaster that Gorton/Clarke will have to repair.
Click to expand...

Thats what it comes down to. We are in win-now mode. And rightfully so, given that in terms of peak performance the countdown clock on our two biggest assets, Lundqvist and Nash, has begun.

If he can buy-out richards and somehow get a better center (like Stastny), i think we have a legit shot. And if you cant get that center, shift focus to LW (like Vanek).

We are set on G, D, RW, and bottom-6. One more weapon in the top group, and i think we can be ready for a real run if everything breaks right.
 
nyr2k2 said:
Look at some of the shooting percentages for individual players versus their career averages: Stepan is down 5%. Richards is down over 1%. Nash is down over 2%. Boyle and Pouliot are both down over 3%. The only guys appreciably better than their career averages are Hagelin and McDonagh.

Part of that is symptomatic of the fact that as you said, we struggle in the crease. Still, there's absolutely some bad puck luck involved. We have the third most shots in the league, the third most 5 on 5, and yet we're only shooting at 7.7% as a team. Even for a team that isn't great in front of the net and working through traffic, it's still unusually low when given that we're otherwise of good offensive skill. Our team shooting percentage is third from the bottom, and it's hard to reconcile that with any of the peripheral stats.
Click to expand...

Fair analysis. Ditto to you as well SnowBlind. Barring some way of plotting out every single shot attempt in a heat map based on where they were taken...my gut reaction would be to say that while they generate shots, they do not generate the kind of quality necessary. It is less to do with "finishing ability" and more to do with quality (not quantity) of opportunities.

How many times a night do we see Hagelin, Nash, and Kreider fly down the wing and wrist a low percentage shot from the boards right into the goalie? How many point shots do they take that have no chance save a deflection? I don't care what your shooting % is that is an extremely low percentage play. If that is what you are seeing, I would expect your shooting % to go down and not regress to a mean.

Whereas I watch, say Anaheim, who is 9th in shots per game...and almost every night Corey Perry gets 1-3 point blank looks from 4 feet out because he can get in the right position. Consistently being able to do that is way more valuable than an extra 5 worthless shots from the perimeter.
 
Without a first line, I just can't see a team competing for the cup. A first line center needs to dictate the pace of the line and if Step is reacting to the rhythm of Nash who is hot and cold, than he will never be able to garner everything that line has to offer and be consistent. Nash needs to be pushed and I don't think that Step can handle the job.
 
just pray some later picks develop. Reality is a lot of 1sts and 2nds stink anyway so yea they are taking a risk but they are indeed better today.

St.Louis and Nash are top players in this league. MSL will play for about 4 more yrs. I think he can be another Jagr/Selanne type guy.

They are definitely a better team and with Hank in net and some offense to back him up in theory it could work..............could.
 
This team is a contender but not a legitimate contender.

Goal - I am a big fan of Hank but I haven't seen that "great" goalie lately. Great, heck, even good goalies steal a game for you once in a while. When was the last time he did that?? In Dallas a couple of months back. He needs to be much better if this team wants to be a legitimate contender.

Defense - I think this group is a very good group. You've got two rocks in McD and G and Staal has picked up his game lately. My biggest issue is the toughness. The weekend games really exposed how you can push these guys around without an answer.

Forwards - As most of you here, I can't wait for Zucc to get back for two reasons. To see the Rangers roll 3 lines that can score at any time. And because he's been their best forward this year. The Stepan line was on a roll for a bit but they have been very quiet lately. You need more consistency from a first line. The Richards line looked good last night but we need to see if they can keep it going. The fourth line has played well considering some of the past 4th lines for the Rangers have had. Overall, similar to the Defense, this group of forwards are a talented group but lacking toughness. When Zucc is the grittiest player out of your forwards, their is a problem.

Coaching - I've liked what AV has done from an offensive standpoint and I think that was reflective in the first period of the Boston game when the Rangers were essentially dominating. However, I don't like his d-zone man to man philosophy. This type of system will be exposed in the playoffs when teams push a lot harder in the offensive zone. Also, I don't see a coach that makes a lot of in game adjustments. He's happy to have his lines matched without trying to get favorable matchups on his side.

The Rangers are what they have been in the past few years, an average to above average team (on some nights). They do not possess all of the intangibles needed to be a "legitimate" contender. They'll be lucky to make the playoffs and to win a series.
 
Not unlike when Joffrey on Game of Thrones had to keep saying 'But I AM the King!, if you have to call yourself a legitimate contender to convince yourself of that, perhaps in your heart you really don't believe it.
 
With their games in hand, both columbus and detroit can pass us, putting us out of the playoffs. We're only 2 points up on washington, 3 on the devils and 5 on ottawa. This team is in no way a cup contender.

It's funny how everyone thinks we'll be giving up late round picks for MSL when we struggle every year (outside 2011-12) to make the playoffs. My personal nightmare, apart from us retaining Richards to appease MSL, is that we'll miss the playoffs next year, win the lottery, and tampa will get McDavid.
 
nikonsniper said:
Thats what it comes down to. We are in win-now mode. And rightfully so, given that in terms of peak performance the countdown clock on our two biggest assets, Lundqvist and Nash, has begun.

If he can buy-out richards and somehow get a better center (like Stastny), i think we have a legit shot. And if you cant get that center, shift focus to LW (like Vanek).

We are set on G, D, RW, and bottom-6. One more weapon in the top group, and i think we can be ready for a real run if everything breaks right.
Click to expand...

I honestly think there is a legit chance that Richards stays. Especially if he starts lighting it up with St. Louis. I think its 50/50 at this point, unless he is garbage the rest of the way. Prior to the St. Louis trade, I thought there was not chance in hell he was going to be here next season.

Stepan, on the other hand, may be the one that may not be here.
 
The team looks great on paper but the games aren't played on paper. I don't think this team looks like a Cup contender with the way they play against Boston or the top teams from the West. Maybe St. Louis changes that but I doubt it.
 
bubba5 said:
We have no prospects in the org. Miller really the only one. I will believe it when is see it when some of the others make the jump but I don't here anyone outside of NYR talk about how we have a boatload of prospects ready for the NHL.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this thinking. So Lindberg, Duclair, Kristo, McIlrath, guys like that, are nothing prospects? Okay, that's fine if you want to write them off. But why, then, would you be upset about surrendering a late first and second round draft pick? Because those are the caliber of guys you'll most likely find in the range where we'll be picking.

In the past two days, I've seen a lot of people ******** on our prospects, while at the same time bemoaning the fact that we won't be able to draft more guys like them. I mean, you realize we gave up just two high draft picks, right? Okay, say we could draft another JT Miller with our first in 2015. Say we could draft another Oscar Lindberg with our second in 2014. Are you telling me the difference between having a good farm system and "nothing" is JT Miller and Oscar Lindberg? Because if you are, that's a complete contradiction to your initial point that we only have one good prospect in our system.

As for centers. If you feel an aging Richards , who will be bought out this summer, and Stepan who is a #2 center at best is great, then good luck with that. As for our LW. Haglin is nice. Pouliot is ok but played above himself and has disappeared again and might be gone soon. Good luck with the rest.
Click to expand...

I didn't say our center depth is "great." It's enough to compete at a high level. It is the single largest thing holding us back from being a true contender, rather than a dark horse. Stepan is a good player. Brassard is a good three, who can play like a two when he's on his game. We need a number one. Richards, if he is bought out, will be replaced. Do you think Sather would make a move to acquire St. Louis (clearly a "win now" type of thing), buy out Richards, and then not spend money or other assets to fill his void? That's silly. As currently constructed, our center corps is very good. It's not great, but it is very good. I imagine that it will remain so if/when Richards is replaced.

Left wing? Yes, Hagelin is "nice." Kreider is also "nice," but for some reason you excluded him. Pouliot is just fine on the third line. I like how you say he's okay and has been playing above himself, when in fact he has been less productive this year compared to his career averages. Which is it?

I feel like some of you guys are under the impression that we have to have to be top five in literally every position grouping, or else we're garbage in that area. Everyone is so ****ing dramatic. Everything is black and white. Either we suck or we're awesome. We have good prospects or they're ****ing nonexistent. It's ridiculous.
 
Far too often, folks look at a roster as 1-23 players instead of looking at their positions, how the pieces fit together and, perhaps most importantly, how versatile the group can be.

Lets start in goal. Lundqvist is great, but like any goalie, his play will mirror the defensive performance in front of him. That performance this season? Shoddy and inconsistent. The commitment to man to man defense will need to be revisited in the offseason, because its a rollercoaster.

As for the defense. Very solid group. Perhaps a bit redundant, but solid. They are being asked to play a very difficult style and theres been some bumps in the road, but you cant kill their performance. I would absolutely love to substitute John Moore with a true PMD, however. The lack of offense from the blueline hurts, and has for a long time.

Ahhh, the offense. What a dilapidated group this is. On paper/by name, they seem OK, but what a mish-mashed one dimensional group in reality. RW is solid, no complaints there - perhaps the best RW depth in the NHL. LW is a mess. Kreider's effort level is so inconsistent that it makes me want to pull me hair out. Hagelin is a nice player, but not a top 6 forward.

But lets get to the centers, which the OP called solid depth, to which I couldn't disagree more. You need dynamic players at the center ice position to succeed in today's NHL. We don't have a center that can even remotely be considered a dynamic player, a catalyst. It is a major problem - perhaps the biggest problem with this team, and it has been for a long long time.

But heres the rub on why I don't think this team has a chance in hell of winning the Stanley Cup. Lack of versatility. People like to spew stuff about how we now have "3 lines that can score!" - trouble is, they don't score very well (bottom half of the league), and they don't do anything else particularly well either. The lack grit, and I've been disappointed about how they react when a team roughs them up, which will be just about every shift in the playoffs.

Sather is a caricature of a plumber who is on one side of the room fixing a leak while 2 other leaks explode on the other side. He needs to field a team that addresses the #1C position and a PMD if he wants the Rangers to be a "true contender." He needs to stop swaying from one philosophical extreme to another and concentrate more on pieces that fit and can play a versatile game. In short, he needs to find a happy median between the '11-12 team and this team.
 
Jersey Girl said:
Not unlike when Joffrey on Game of Thrones had to keep saying 'But I AM the King!, if you have to call yourself a legitimate contender to convince yourself of that, perhaps in your heart you really don't believe it.
Click to expand...

Or other people in their heart don't believe that. Blues and Ducks fans don't have to say it, this is more of a controversial topic for 2nd tier teams like the Rangers.
 
NYRSchrute217 said:
The team looks great on paper but the games aren't played on paper. I don't think this team looks like a Cup contender with the way they play against Boston or the top teams from the West. Maybe St. Louis changes that but I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Top teams from the west:

Game 1: Sharks, Ducks, and Blues- Let's be honest, even though we've had issues since then this is still a totally different team than they were in those games and they even gave the Blues a run for their money then.

Game 2: Ducks and Blues- Definitely arguable that they outplayed both and lost 2-1, could have easily gone either way

Chicago- 2-0.

What are you talking about?
 
Last edited:
nikonsniper said:
We are set on G, D, RW, and bottom-6. One more weapon in the top group, and i think we can be ready for a real run if everything breaks right.
Click to expand...
Boston and Pittsburgh are not relying on everything breaking right.

Ever since the acquisition of Lindros, the term I most detest hearing Rangers say "If we can get in, we can do some damage". By and large, I am still waiting for the damage.

Oh, and the Rangers are so set, then why are they not among the top teams?
 
My wife, who deals with me watching every Ranger game and tries to show interest from time to time, asked me how the Rangers are doing this season.

My answer: "OK some nights, good other nights...far from great"
 
SnowblindNYR said:
Top teams from the west:

Game 1: Sharks, Ducks, and Blues- Let's be honest, even though we've had issues since then this is still a totally different team than they were in those games and they even gave the Blues a run for their money then.

Game: Ducks and Blues- Definitely arguable that they outplayed both and lost 2-1, could have easily gone either way

Chicago- 2-0.

What are you talking about?
Click to expand...

He's saying in a seven game series we would be extreme longshots against those teams, and he's right.
 
I think that removing "bad stretches" would be unfair if it was a long one. I think that if you remove the Boston/Philly game, and the first 10 games (that's 12 games - not a lot) - and consider what Pittsburgh has done in the same time period, they have 5 more points than us in that stretch.

We had a very tough start to the season, 9 games on the road, and began 3-6 in those games (3-7 overall to start). We are now 18-11 on the road - which means we have gone 15-5 on the road since then. We are .500 at home - which is concerning. But overall, I think this team is somewhere between the folks who say "WE ARE DOOMED" and the ones who think we are a legitimate contender.

Ultimately, year after year, the "legitimate contenders" have issues in the postseason. If we can start to score some goals and Hank comes around, both entire plausible scenarios, we can compete with any team in the league. And that's all that's really required to have a decent chance at winning the Cup. We don't have to be the big bad Rangers - the best team in the NHL - to win the Cup. We just have to be able to hang in a 7 game series and score some timely goals while playing sound defense. I see no reason why we shouldn't be excited about our prospects of 1. getting into the middle seeds in the East and 2. going very deep into the postseason.

A lot of our team has gained experience as well, playing 5 rounds in the last 2 seasons. Reasonable to expect some growth and maturity as such.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom