Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

Where would you prefer Slaf spend his 23-24 season?


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waitin425

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From the advanced stats front, here we see net positives in all areas that Slaf impacted the game on Saturday night.


Whew....I don't know man....these clips ive been sharing showing that IMO pass the eye test and the stats that reflect that.....I think the proof is in the pudding that this kid is an NHL player and needs to stay up.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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I have some faith in Hughes pro scouting. Though there seems to be a lot of nepotism.

What I see though is that Hugo isn't that much of a departure from Bergevin or Gainey, I think that's what the quality of GMs is. Not that good.
He’s night and day different from Bergevin. Bergevin never took a real risk. It was always two nickels for a dime. Lateral moves with no direction.
Not sure why were acting like HuGo can't do anything wrong. They 100% can and will and already did (Slaf.)
Who the hell said he can’t do anything wrong? That’s just strawman bs.

As for Slaf, it’s so freaking early. Maybe he did a f*** it up but we won’t know for a while.
 
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Mrb1p

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He’s night and day different from Bergevin. Bergevin never took a real risk. It was always two nickels for a dime. Lateral moves with no direction.

Who the hell said he can’t do anything wrong? That’s just strawman bs.

As for Slaf, it’s so freaking early. Maybe he did a few it up but we won’t know for a while.
Sure, but then end goal isn't much different IMO. Were going to end up in the same spot we were from 12-20. Missing assets for the big run, and I doubt they get lucky and get a top 5 all-time goaltender from a 5th overall again.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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From the advanced stats front, here we see net positives in all areas that Slaf impacted the game on Saturday night.


Whew....I don't know man....these clips ive been sharing showing that IMO pass the eye test and the stats that reflect that.....I think the proof is in the pudding that this kid is an NHL player and needs to stay up.
Playing with Dach really helps. Dach along with CC was probably our best forward in the games I saw in the preseason. He drives the play and is perfect to help bring along Slaf.

Again though, I think Slaf would do better in the AHL in terms of development.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Sure, but then end goal isn't much different IMO. We’re going to end up in the same spot we were from 12-20. Missing assets for the big run, and I doubt they get lucky and get a top 5 all-time goaltender from a 5th overall again.
I think we’ve got four blueliners who could turn out to be number one caliber. And a pile more who have real promise. MB never did that. Not only did he not choose a direction he chose bullies to develop prospects. Just a total disaster. Hughes has already shown he’s a lot smarter on that front. If MB were GM Roy would’ve been called up already. Ditto with Hutson and Mailloux… and they’d be on the lower lines getting no ice. We ruined guys. Look what wa a happening with Caufield before he was reacued. It was Chuck all over again.

The blue chip superstar unfortunately we seem to have missed out on. But that’s the nature of the draft and sometimes you have bad luck. But just because they aren’t obvious superstars doesn’t mean we don’t have any. Lane Hutson could turn out to be one for example but we just don’t know it yet.
 
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waitin425

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Playing with Dach really helps. Dach along with CC was probably our best forward in the games I saw in the preseason. He drives the play and is perfect to help bring along Slaf.

Again though, I think Slaf would do better in the AHL in terms of development.
NHL for me, based on everything I have seen, which I tried to capture over the past couple pages. Funny thing is, we will never know. He could become an 80 point power forward, but possibly would have been a 90 point power forward if he played in the A. Conversely he could never get past 40 points and be a serviceable 3rd liner, or have gone to the A and never make it back up. All these arguments will never, ever, have a clear winner, as we will never be able to live in that alternate universe.

Best to sit back and enjoy the ride!
 
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salbutera

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But has Bobrov and Gorton earned any benefit ? They are doign the exact same thing they were doing in NY.
Draft is a crapshoot - Al Murray was canned in LA for mediocre drafting pipeline, then because he happened to be the lead scout for Team Canada got early visibility into 13-year olds Point & Cirelli before being hired by Stevie Y to be TBay’s head scout.

There are bad GMs and scouts, but there’s no such thing as great GMs or scouts - it’s all situational - player desired team markets, getting luck w deep draft cuvée etc

The Habs draft record of the past 49-years pretty much mirrors every other org, a few hits and a whole lot of misses.

I posted a couple of weeks back even with top-3 picks, from 2003-2019 only 58% every became top line fwd or top pairing Dman, while being very generous with some of the players
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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NHL for me, based on everything I have seen, which I tried to capture over the past couple pages. Funny thing is, we will never know. He could become an 80 point power forward, but possibly would have been a 90 point power forward if he played in the A. Conversely he could never get past 40 points and be a serviceable 3rd liner, or have gone to the A and never make it back up. All these arguments will never, ever, have a clear winner, as we will never be able to live in that alternate universe.

Best to sit back and enjoy the ride!
I’d rather him be in the AHL but if they’re going to keep him up, he’d better be on the top six. I wasn’t happy with how he was handled last year.
 
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Mrb1p

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Draft is a crapshoot - Al Murray was canned in LA for mediocre drafting pipeline, then because he happened to be the lead scout for Team Canada got early visibility into 13-year olds Point & Cirelli before being hired by Stevie Y to be TBay’s head scout.

There are bad GMs and scouts, but there’s no such thing as great GMs or scouts - it’s all situational - player desired team markets, getting luck w deep draft cuvée etc

The Habs draft record of the past 49-years pretty much mirrors every other org, a few hits and a whole lot of misses.

I posted a couple of weeks back even with top-3 picks, from 2003-2019 only 58% every became top line fwd or top pairing Dman, while being very generous with some of the players
Draft is a crapshoot, development is not. Bobrov has been equally bad at drafting or Gorton has been horrible at developing.
 
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waitin425

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I’d rather him be in the AHL but if they’re going to keep him up, he’d better be on the top six. I wasn’t happy with how he was handled last year.
Agreed, top 6 is ideal. Stick him with Dach on the second line with Money. When Dvorak comes back I'd experiment with Newhook.

Pre Dvo

Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson
Slaf - Dach - Monahan
RHP - Newhook - Gally

Dvo back

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan
Slaf - Dach - Newhook
RHP - Dvorak - Anderson


Fourth line I'm still trying to figure out.
 
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Andy

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This thread has gone off topic, but Gorton and Hughes have only been around for two drafts.

Of those two drafts, only 5 players have played in the nhl, playing a total 53 games....39 of those belong to Slafkovsky.

It is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to see what direction any of the draft picks are going. It's not common for draft picks to make a big impact in such a short time span. Yah, yah, you will find some folks, but it's rarer than you think.
 

ReHabs

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This thread has gone off topic, but Gorton and Hughes have only been around for two drafts.

Of those two drafts, only 5 players have played in the nhl, playing a total 53 games....39 of those belong to Slafkovsky.

It is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to see what direction any of the draft picks are going. It's not common for draft picks to make a big impact in such a short time span. Yah, yah, you will find some folks, but it's rarer than you think.
See, you're not wrong but you're reframing the original discussion to make a totally different point. The topic was faith in HuGo -- some say they see good things, some say they want to see more things before they make a determination. It's perfectly fair to disagree and fall on one side or the other on this topic (and as time goes on the uncertainty will be reduced) but nobody is saying that it isn't too early to make a determination.

For instance only a very very very few people are saying they've seen enough and they know the Habs are on the wrong track. And I don't think those voices saying such things are serious or noteworthy. But I also don't think the opposite ("Habs are certainly on the right track") is serious either. As you say, it is too early.
 

badfish

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If you take the entire body of work of Slafkovsky's pre-season, he's been good, and certainly improved since lsat year. You can break his game down into good highlights and bad highlights, but these little vignettes don't tell the story of his overall play.

I think for some posters, the negative commentary comes from a place of insecurity due to his underwhelming 1st overall rookie campaign production. I also think there are positions from anxiety around the team failing with Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi.

There are interesting parallels to the 2020 New Jersey Devils. At the time, Jack Hughes had put up pedestrian rookie campaign numbers, and Hischier, the first overall pick a few years before Hughes, hadn't really shown he could be more than a 50-point two-way center. Here are some quotes I found from the mid-point of Hughes rookie season to the offseason before camp:

hes got great “ shot” assists :laugh: :eek:
As soon as Hughes was selected #1 overall and one slot ahead of Kakko, he became a huge target among the pro-Kakko contingent that started this little pissing war, if that contingent had left well enough alone, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I would rather they send him to the minors then keep him playing with Zacha and Simmonds. Doesn’t seem like the right move for his development.
Worst 1st overall of the last 20 years.
Definitely the most underwhelmed I've been by watching a first overall pick in recent memory.
I hope Jack is disappointed with his numbers this year and uses it to become a better player next year. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t expect a little more from him this year. He’s got a lot of talent and I’m not too worried about it but he’s got some work to do.
There is way too much pressure on teams to put their first overall into the NHL immediately. I believe the last one who didn’t was Erik Johnson. Hughes likely would have benefited from one more year of development at the amateur level.
Never mind 'worse since Stefan?', it's probably more valid to ask 'worse than Stefan?'.

Fast forward to today and Hughes is a super star, and the New Jersey Devils are on the cusp of becoming a contender in my opinion. It took until Hughes third season to really show what he was going to become.

Do these quotes prove that Slafkovsky will be a superstar in the future? Absolutely not. But I think they give some good indication that projecting where his career is going to go at this stage is premature. I also think it gives some indication that feeling anxiety around the uncertainty of Slafkovsky's future is also normal too.

One last thought, and it's that the comment "show us something similar to previous first overalls" is an unfair comment. In terms of player skill and profile, Slafkovsky isn't like recent first overalls, in the sense that I think he's more a skilled power forward than a dangler, sniper, speedster or a defenseman. If you rephrase the question, "has Slafkovsky shown us something similar to the other skilled powerforwards in the league?" I think the answer is clearly yes.

B. Tkachuk, M. Tkachuk and Rantanen generate most of their offense 5-on-5 in plays around the net with simple touches, redirects, or power moves. Most of their offense is not "highlight reel" material, if you look at their highlight packages on YouTube, frankly, they're much more boring than other players in the league. On the PowerPlay M. Tkachuk and Rantanen set up in the exact same place as Slafkovsky on the powerplay and generate their points from one timers or puck distribution. Slafkovsky was already doing some of this last year and has done more of this style in the pre-season as well.

Rant over. Flame away !
 

417

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I’d rather him be in the AHL but if they’re going to keep him up, he’d better be on the top six. I wasn’t happy with how he was handled last year.
Yep...that's where i'm at.

He's not going to be playing with anyone nearly as good as Kirby Dach in Laval. As long as his play warrants him staying up, and from my perspective, at camp at least...he's earned that spot.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Draft is a crapshoot, development is not. Bobrov has been equally bad at drafting or Gorton has been horrible at developing.
Draft is not a crapshoot. It’s incredibly linear. The first overall is usually more successful than the 2nd etc. There’s more randomness in lower rounds but generally speaking its linear in terms of success. Totally agree on the development comment.

Earlier you said we f***ed up on Slaf. You could be right but we won’t know for a while. The only thing I’d agree with though is that we messed up by not having him in the minors last year. It’s not disastrous but I think he’s have benefited from it.
 

Andy

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See, you're not wrong but you're reframing the original discussion to make a totally different point. The topic was faith in HuGo -- some say they see good things, some say they want to see more things before they make a determination. It's perfectly fair to disagree and fall on one side or the other on this topic (and as time goes on the uncertainty will be reduced) but nobody is saying that it isn't too early to make a determination.

For instance only a very very very few people are saying they've seen enough and they know the Habs are on the wrong track. And I don't think those voices saying such things are serious or noteworthy. But I also don't think the opposite ("Habs are certainly on the right track") is serious either. As you say, it is too early.
It's really hard to say what track they're on since the aspects of management that impact a team most is draft results. They've only had two and it's too early to really tell where that is going.

Trades seem to be impossible across the nhl right now, they're almost as rare as getting a 100 point player in the second round.

Also, management has been saddled with some pretty shit contracts to overpaid bottom six players. They've done fairly well to dump those contracts for picks.

It's still too early too tell, but there hasn't really been major red flags. When people bring up Allen and picking Slaf and playing him in the nhl as red flags, that just seems like a stretch to me.

All in all, it's been fairly positive, but it's still early. The team isn't really competing and there isn't an expectation to. So it's really difficult to do a bad job right now.
 

Mrb1p

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Draft is not a crapshoot. It’s incredibly linear. The first overall is usually more successful than the 2nd etc. There’s more randomness in lower rounds but generally spaeaking its linear in terms of success. Totally agree on the development comment.

Earlier you said we f***ed up on Slaf. You could be right but we won’t know for a while. The only thing I’d agree with though is that we messed up by not having him in the minors last year. It’s not disastrous but I think he’s have benefited from it.
This is what I meant by f***ed up. Not necessarily the pick, even if I had him 6th, I said that if the team took their time with him they'd see a real force. Well shit leave it to the habs to the Kotkaniemi thing once again. I said the exact same thing when before the 2018 draft and said this before 2022. I know for a fact that shit will play out similarly again.
 

The Gr8 Dane

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Bobrov and hughes don't deserve the benefit of the doubt , they did mess up in NYR they were ass at drafting.

That said its still to early to tell they need 3-4 years so we can see if all these dudes are busts. Also if the rebuild fails they will be on the chopping block much earlier than Marc *cant get fired because of CP31* bergevin , for obvious reasons that I wont get into
 

HuGort

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It's a heck of a gamble how they are handling such an important piece of the rebuild. I trust him too in many facets but I am not sure at the course they are taking.
I don't know. I am no expert on developing players. I would probably stay with the Sam Pollock method. Play them at each level until they mastered that level. He had good minor teams, long playoffs extended their season sped up development.
 
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Scriptor

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Agreed, top 6 is ideal. Stick him with one of Dach on the second line with Money. When Dvorak comes back I'd experiment with Newhook on the first pair.

Pre Dvo

Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson
Slaf - Dach - Monahan
RHP - Newhook - Gally

Dvo back

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan
Slaf - Dach - Newhook
RHP - Dvorak - Anderson


Fourth line I'm still trying to figure out.
Going forward, this team clearly needs two Monahans to have a relevant offense, one to replace the first Monahan that likely gets dealt and the other to act as a second Monahan.

Caufield - Suzuki- Monahan
Slafkovsky - Dach- Monahan
RHP - Newhook - Anderson (becomes Heineman over time)
Pearson (TBD over time) - Dvorak (becomes Beck over time) - Gallagher (TBD over time)

Can Roy become the two-way, puck-protecting trigger man equivalent to Monahan on a second line with Slafkovsky and Dach. Roy could be a good complement on a physically imposing line that has a strong cycle game that wears out opponents and good skill to surprise them. St-Louis recognized that Dach needs a scorer on hipline to reach a new level and Roy is the closest thing to that in the system, more so than Slafkovsky, in that department, IMO. Roy's newly expressed defensive acumen would also contribute making this more of a two-way line that would merit the TOI against the opponents' better players, enabling MSL to roll it out regularly.

If Roy pans out, we'd stile short a Monahan but, as seen with the acquisition of Monahan in the first place, obtaining such a player from outside of the organization, if we can't develop ones entirely possible, especially if Hughes continues to navigate the Cap situation as he has while ridding himself of deadweight and identifying young core pieces cosign long term at Cap friendly deals over the long haul.

Cap space will be king when trying to add missing pieces to the roster down the line (By 2027-2028, when all the anvils have been removed from the lineup by natural attrition, if nothing else).
 

BaseballCoach

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Process, Performance, and Results. I think you're praising process, it's not so possible to praise performance because we haven't had better performances, and certainly not better results. Our PP remains awful -- this is not something that is impossible to improve, and yet...

We got many more points last year than the year before.

For instance, even in praising process, I don't think the "low AAV" contract thing makes sense -- he's not been in a position to sign big money FAs as we've had a bottom-tier team, you're giving double credit for tanking.

The contracts for Dach, Newhook, RHP and Harris were all lower than MB gave similar players, and that is when the caps were lower (see Drouin, Shaw, Anderson, Armia)

That is if you make an exception for when he trades first round picks+ to acquire his former clients. Not a typical 'full rebuild' move.
Plural? We know about the 31st and 37th for a recent 16th who would be 10th to 13th in a re-draft, and we know from the charts that 31+37 are worth less than 16.

What other first rounder was traded for a former client?

When he traded for Matheson he RECEIVED a 4th round draft pick, did not give any.

Dach was not a former client.

When he got Monahan he RECEIVED a first rounder.

I think you not only exaggerated the frequency, but failed to mention that the guy we received is ALSO a first rounder, higher up, and considered by those who rate these things as worth more than what we paid.
 
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waitin425

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Going forward, this team clearly needs two Monahans to have a relevant offense, one to replace the first Monahan that likely gets dealt and the other to act as a second Monahan.

Caufield - Suzuki- Monahan
Slafkovsky - Dach- Monahan
RHP - Newhook - Anderson (becomes Heineman over time)
Pearson (TBD over time) - Dvorak (becomes Beck over time) - Gallagher (TBD over time)

Can Roy become the two-way, puck-protecting trigger man equivalent to Monahan on a second line with Slafkovsky and Dach. Roy could be a good complement on a physically imposing line that has a strong cycle game that wears out opponents and good skill to surprise them. St-Louis recognized that Dach needs a scorer on hipline to reach a new level and Roy is the closest thing to that in the system, more so than Slafkovsky, in that department, IMO. Roy's newly expressed defensive acumen would also contribute making this more of a two-way line that would merit the TOI against the opponents' better players, enabling MSL to roll it out regularly.

If Roy pans out, we'd stile short a Monahan but, as seen with the acquisition of Monahan in the first place, obtaining such a player from outside of the organization, if we can't develop ones entirely possible, especially if Hughes continues to navigate the Cap situation as he has while ridding himself of deadweight and identifying young core pieces cosign long term at Cap friendly deals over the long haul.

Cap space will be king when trying to add missing pieces to the roster down the line (By 2027-2028, when all the anvils have been removed from the lineup by natural attrition, if nothing else).
Woah!!! Two Monahans?

Krusty the clown GIF on GIFER - by Mneril


All kidding aside, excellent post
 

Scriptor

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Woah!!! Two Monahans?

Krusty the clown GIF on GIFER - by Mneril


All kidding aside, excellent post
Thanks.

Monahan just gets the work done in every aspect of the game and makes his line mates better around him. He's a skilled, physical, calming influence on younger players and a good complement to skilled players. Plush's a genuine leader that teammates look up to.

It's too bad that, at only 28, he's git such a history of injuries and that his body looks to be held together by chicken wire, because, one of the missing Monahans could have been a re-signed Monahan for, at least, the medium term, while we continued to endeavour to develop another one internally.

Is Pinto, good two-way C with a good frame that can also score 20+ goals be a good option to target? Or is he a tad short on talent and also too susceptible to injury to help us reach another level?
 

Pazucha

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The roster looks so much better with two Monahans!

I would like to see a few games with Monahan - Dach - Slaf even though RHP was great.
 
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