Recalled/Assigned: JT Miller

[charliemurphy]

$4,000 - $5,000 a month in the AHL before taxes is hardly large bank anywhere in the country, let alone NYC.

You ever wonder how much a NYC school teacher, firefighter or cop make per month before taxes?
Put the name and the jersey aside. Lets think in terms of reality here.
$4/$5 k a month as a hockey player in the AHL... at 21... definitely more than enough for the kid.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

What happened with Werek? He was a second round pick, and we traded him for another guy that was a second round pick (and evidently, a better player). That's a trade that looks like it will work out strongly in our favor. I understand your point, but that's not the best example.

Werek had attitude issues. My point is, you typically look to maximize value in a trade. You look for a team that has a need in their organizational depth, and are looking to move money.

If Miller could be packaged for a guy like Eric Staal (example) based on his potential as a player, but they are now hearing about off-ice issues and attitude problems, that could turn them off.

If the difference between an impact player as a return or a project lower-level player, is Vignault either opening his mouth or keeping it shut, then you have to keep it shut.

Or, forget trade value, if the difference is Miller pans out and becomes an impact player himself, but does elsewhere because he requsts out of the organization as a result of Vignault opening his mouth, then he needs to keep it shut.

There is more chance of something bad coming of this than something good.

You just don't throw guys under a bus in the media.

Tortorella threw Hagelin under the bus in the playoffs. He was fired. That isn't THE reason he was fired. But it was a part of it.

There are things a coach has control of and things he doesn't have control of. Flapping your mouth to the media about private matters is something you have control of.

 

[offdacrossbar]

$4,000 - $5,000 a month in the AHL before taxes is hardly large bank anywhere in the country, let alone NYC.

true. it isnt much compared to chris kreider or derek stepan.

but his paycheck stands to be much bigger soon. and considering what he does, he makes a decent wage even now.

i would be pretty happy making his money at 20 doing whath he does. then again, most would i think.

that was, i guess, my point. but you knew that already.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Werek had attitude issues. My point is, you typically look to maximize value in a trade. You look for a team that has a need in their organizational depth, and are looking to move money.

If Miller could be packaged for a guy like Eric Staal (example) based on his potential as a player, but they are now hearing about off-ice issues and attitude problems, that could turn them off.

If the difference between an impact player as a return or a project lower-level player, is Vignault either opening his mouth or keeping it shut, then you have to keep it shut.

Or, forget trade value, if the difference is Miller pans out and becomes an impact player himself, but does elsewhere because he requsts out of the organization as a result of Vignault opening his mouth, then he needs to keep it shut.

There is more chance of something bad coming of this than something good.

You just don't throw guys under a bus in the media.

Tortorella threw Hagelin under the bus in the playoffs. He was fired. That isn't THE reason he was fired. But it was a part of it.

There are things a coach has control of and things he doesn't have control of. Flapping your mouth to the media about private matters is something you have control of.

he called out gabs after the playoff series loss saying he didnt compete and didnt do enough. i realize gaborik wasnt a kid but still.

that relationship never recovered.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

he called out gabs after the playoff series loss saying he didnt compete and didnt do enough. i realize gaborik wasnt a kid but still.

that relationship never recovered.

Yes, that is another example.

Its a poisoning thing. And the double standard is embarassing. Miller, a rookie kid, gets called out in the media for whatever the issue is, but Rick Nash gets a free pass despite his pathetic work ethic.

 

[nyr2k2]

Werek had attitude issues. My point is, you typically look to maximize value in a trade. You look for a team that has a need in their organizational depth, and are looking to move money.

If Miller could be packaged for a guy like Eric Staal (example) based on his potential as a player, but they are now hearing about off-ice issues and attitude problems, that could turn them off.

If the difference between an impact player as a return or a project lower-level player, is Vignault either opening his mouth or keeping it shut, then you have to keep it shut.

Or, forget trade value, if the difference is Miller pans out and becomes an impact player himself, but does elsewhere because he requsts out of the organization as a result of Vignault opening his mouth, then he needs to keep it shut.

There is more chance of something bad coming of this than something good.

You just don't throw guys under a bus in the media.

Tortorella threw Hagelin under the bus in the playoffs. He was fired. That isn't THE reason he was fired. But it was a part of it.

There are things a coach has control of and things he doesn't have control of. Flapping your mouth to the media about private matters is something you have control of.

I agree that in most circumstances a coach shouldn't criticize his players in the media. I'm not looking to debate that. I just disagree with the idea that the comments made by AV will have any substantial effect on his trade value.

Lots of guys have baggage...if Miller's trade value is low nine months from now, it's because he hasn't developed as a player, not what AV said. Besides, the NHL circle is pretty small--if a player has issues off the ice, the rest of the league is aware of it regardless of whether or not the player's team publicly acknowledges it.

 

[TheTakedown]

I'm not typically a fan of a coach calling out a player in the media. To me, it seems like that just precipitates further drama, and the situation rarely ends well. It might be one of those things, though, where I remember the bad instances more than the good.

It's a calculated risk on Vigneault's part. Hopefully Miller responds, gets serious, and really breaks out next year. If not, he may be done in our organization. Regardless, I don't believe that these comments will negatively affect his potential trade value in any substantial way.

Micheal del zotto killed his own trade value by being awful in his own zone and not scoring... Once he got to Nashville he been doin the same things. U can't blame his failures on slats or torts or AV

Have to agree with these posts. It may not help is trade value, but it's certainly not killing it... Dealing with immaturity is part of most, if not all prospects... I mean, you're drafting kids at 18-21 years old, you can't expect them to behave like 35 year old grown men... that's just outright silly.

as for MDZ, agreed.. AV took a calculated risk trying to burn his ass into gear... it worked once, and then MDZ regressed to his old ways. The only reason the value went down was becaus MDZ continued regressing, not because of what AV said. (again, this shows the right move would have been to move MDZ the season before, but with Staal injured that season, MDZ was required by this team, on top of Torts already wanting him here). All this really indicates is that MDZ's ON ICE PLAY is what drove his trade value down, not his off ice activities.

WOold you be afraid of trading for Patrick Kane because he likes to party? Didn't think so... Now relax, because Miller will grow up and become our new Dubinsky, and these minor statements are not pushing him out the door.

In all honesty, consider the last time you responded to your parents discipline after they stroked your back and said "it's ok"... you probably didn't take it seriously... Now consider the time they used the wooden spoon on your ass till it was red... I'd bet it taught you damn well... The media is the young adults wooden spoon. Miller is just being whipped into shape, and props to AV for doing so

 

[chosen]

Miller, IMO, is a great example of the importance of proper player development. People point to Detroit's drafting record and just conveniently ignore the way Detroit handles their players AFTER the draft. Nyquist was drafted 6 seasons ago. If Miller had been drafted by that team they would have let him develop properly for an extended period of time. He would have been called up when he was seriously ready to contribute, not the rubberband nonsense this team has put him through.

It also doesn't help that he's probably totally confused as to what this team expects him to be now. He's now dealing with two NHL coaches with completely different philosophies, of course it's going to be tough.

Player development is fairy dust. It is on the shoulders of the player to develop and mature. We are all responsible for ourselves. They can be offered guidance, and they all are. It is all up to the player.

This situation reminds me of Don Murdoch, perhaps the most gifted young Ranger forward I ever saw. He threw his career away.

 

[haveandare]

Yes, that is another example.

Its a poisoning thing. And the double standard is embarassing. Miller, a rookie kid, gets called out in the media for whatever the issue is, but Rick Nash gets a free pass despite his pathetic work ethic.

Nash's "pathetic" work ethic leads to him leading the team in goals, while Miller can't even make the league. That's not an embarrassing double standard, that's life. If you get results, people tend not to care about your flaws, if you fail to get results, everyone cares about them.

Also, let's not kid ourselves into thinking we know more about the intimate details of players' work ethics than the coach does.

 

[RGF]

I think there is a lot of speculation swirling around the value of a player given AV's comments that are unwarranted. His comments could be misinterpreted given no one here knows anything about the situation outside of a quote from a newspaper (which may be out of context). Further, Miller has had several opportunities this year to stick with the team and has not learned the importance of defensive responsibility / awareness. Learning to be a pro means adopting best practices as soon as possible - if you have been "shown"/"told" how to do something and have not ingrained it into methods- that's a frustrating issue for any coach of a player in any sport.
In my view- AV comments are meant as be a man if you want to earn a spot. Part of doing that is knowing your responsibility and showing tangible improvement each time you learn a lesson in a game or practice. One could argue in the last two callups he has shown little improvement in certain parts of the game AV and Rangers value and want to see improved if he is going to be a full-time NHL player

 

[OverTheCap]

I have little problem with a coach saying to the media that a young player needs to figure it out. But it was the "he'll be a good minor league player" that rubbed me the wrong way, it seemed like a snide and unnecessary remark. Kind of reminded me of Muckler's comments about how Malhotra will be nothing more than a 3rd line player.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I have little problem with a coach saying to the media that a young player needs to figure it out. But it was the "he'll be a good minor league player" that rubbed me the wrong way, it seemed like a snide and unnecessary remark. Kind of reminded me of Muckler's comments about how Malhotra will be nothing more than a 3rd line player.

Looks like Muckler was right though.

 

[haveandare]

I have little problem with a coach saying to the media that a young player needs to figure it out. But it was the "he'll be a good minor league player" that rubbed me the wrong way, it seemed like a snide and unnecessary remark. Kind of reminded me of Muckler's comments about how Malhotra will be nothing more than a 3rd line player.

Agreed. That line in particular seemed way more harsh than it had to be. However, it's possible that Miller is just the kind of guy to respond to something like that. I think I recall Torts comparing him to Dubi. From what little I know of Dubi's personality based on his play, he's the kind of guy I'd expect to come out like a lunatic after something like that.

What worries me is AV's history with Hodgson. NYR can't afford to run a good center prospect out of town. It's looking like Vancouver couldn't afford to do it either.

 

[Pizza]

Player development is fairy dust. It is on the shoulders of the player to develop and mature. We are all responsible for ourselves. They can be offered guidance, and they all are. It is all up to the player.

This situation reminds me of Don Murdoch, perhaps the most gifted young Ranger forward I ever saw. He threw his career away.

Amen Brother.

Does anyone have any facts here or we just spouting speculation about what did or did not happen?

Miller is a kid that wants it badly. I think he'll be fine. Just maybe not with the Rangers. Which would be a shame.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I have little problem with a coach saying to the media that a young player needs to figure it out. But it was the "he'll be a good minor league player" that rubbed me the wrong way, it seemed like a snide and unnecessary remark. Kind of reminded me of Muckler's comments about how Malhotra will be nothing more than a 3rd line player.

I agree, but at the same time this just seems to be the way that AV goes about his business. He has similar pointed things to say about Pouliot and Del Zotto too - Pouliot responded and Del Zotto didnt, now the latter is gone. It could serve as a nice litmus test if done the right way. Do you really want a guy on the time who is going to continue to sulk after a comment like that? Or do you want the guy that is going to fix whatever issues the coach has.

Ultimately what rubs me the wrong way is that AV seems to take this approach towards the most vulnerable players. Rick Nash doesnt exactly show up to play every night - wheres the criticism for him?

 

[emodwarf]

In all honesty, consider the last time you responded to your parents discipline after they stroked your back and said "it's ok"... you probably didn't take it seriously... Now consider the time they used the wooden spoon on your ass till it was red... I'd bet it taught you damn well... The media is the young adults wooden spoon. Miller is just being whipped into shape, and props to AV for doing so

I don't think this is quite accurate, or, at least, comprehensive. First, you're not taking into consideration that different people react in different ways to different forms of constructive criticism or disciplining. For some players, their personality type and experiences mean they respond well to aggressive discipline, whether it's initially or continually. But that kind of discipline poisons the well over time. Just because a technique can work doesn't mean it's smart to use it.

And regarding the media being the wooden spoon - the wooden spoon would be ripping into Miller at practice or privately in AV's office. Dumping on Miller via the media is the equivalent of beating your kid's ass in public so everyone knows about it. How would you feel if your dad beat you with a wooden spoon in the middle of Manhattan, with reporters around to share with the world?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't think this is quite accurate, or, at least, comprehensive. First, you're not taking into consideration that different people react in different ways to different forms of constructive criticism or disciplining. For some players, their personality type and experiences mean they respond well to aggressive discipline, whether it's initially or continually. But that kind of discipline poisons the well over time. Just because a technique can work doesn't mean it's smart to use it.

And regarding the media being the wooden spoon - the wooden spoon would be ripping into Miller at practice or privately in AV's office. Dumping on Miller via the media is the equivalent of beating your kid's ass in public so everyone knows about it. How would you feel if your dad beat you with a wooden spoon in the middle of Manhattan, with reporters around to share with the world?

Good thing AV is not Miller's dad and Miller is not a kid then.

 

[OverTheCap]

I agree, but at the same time this just seems to be the way that AV goes about his business. He has similar pointed things to say about Pouliot and Del Zotto too - Pouliot responded and Del Zotto didnt, now the latter is gone. It could serve as a nice litmus test if done the right way. Do you really want a guy on the time who is going to continue to sulk after a comment like that? Or do you want the guy that is going to fix whatever issues the coach has.

Ultimately what rubs me the wrong way is that AV seems to take this approach towards the most vulnerable players. Rick Nash doesnt exactly show up to play every night - wheres the criticism for him?

I agree with what your saying, but unlike DZ and Pouliot earlier this season, it seems like the effort and engagement level is generally there with Miller - he just makes an awful lot of rookie mistakes and questionable decisions. And considering how much time he's been shuffled back and forth between the big club and Hartford, perhaps it hasn't been an ideal environment for him to work out all the kinks yet. It just seems premature to me to pull out the veiled threats at this juncture, but, who knows, I'm not in the locker room and maybe Miller's being a punk.

And, yes, it certainly seems like AV lets his veterans get away with a lot more than the young players. I think some of the older players are more in need of a kick in the ass than the young guys.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I agree with what your saying, but unlike DZ and Pouliot earlier this season, it seems like the effort and engagement level is generally there with Miller - he just makes an awful lot of rookie mistakes and questionable decisions. And considering how much time he's been shuffled back and forth between the big club and Hartford, perhaps it hasn't been an ideal environment for him to work out all the kinks yet. It just seems premature to me to pull out the veiled threats at this juncture, but, who knows, I'm not in the locker room and maybe Miller's being a punk.

And, yes, it certainly seems like AV lets his veterans get away with a lot more than the young players. I think some of the older players are more in need of a kick in the ass than the young guys.

Total speculation on my part, but I just feel like AV would be less aggressive in his comments if this was just about rookie mistakes. Sure seems like this is at least partly about Miller being a bit of a punk.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Nash's "pathetic" work ethic leads to him leading the team in goals, while Miller can't even make the league. That's not an embarrassing double standard, that's life. If you get results, people tend not to care about your flaws, if you fail to get results, everyone cares about them.

Also, let's not kid ourselves into thinking we know more about the intimate details of players' work ethics than the coach does.

Do you think Nash was playing his heart out for this entire season? I think a huge chunk of this fanbase saw different game in, game out and would argue against that, injury aside. Just because he's leading the team in goals doesn't excuse his play the other 75% of the time. It's taken him 3/4 of the season to find his game and the only thing that visibly started that was him actually being healthy for the CLB game. Outside of that he's looked like a corpse most nights.

 

[eco's bones]

To me Miller is not much of an issue right now. He's in Hartford I would think for the rest of this year and on the taxi squad for the playoffs. I don't expect to see him in the Rangers lineup until next year unless we get hit by a bunch of injuries.

If there's a real conflict between Miller and AV--there's a whole summer for both of them to cool off.

 

[NYROrtsFan]

Player development is fairy dust. It is on the shoulders of the player to develop and mature. We are all responsible for ourselves. They can be offered guidance, and they all are. It is all up to the player.

This situation reminds me of Don Murdoch, perhaps the most gifted young Ranger forward I ever saw. He threw his career away.

Freaking agree...

It's not as simple as just giving the best guidance to someone. Comes down to character and the choices people make. Really don't understand why some people can't have accountability and just to blame something else for a person's poor choices.

 

[JohnC]

The thing about this situation that I don't like is what's gonna happen come playoff time? I sure as hell don't wanna see Dorsett/Carcillo playing on the 2nd line because Miller's being a punk (or whatever the issue is). Do we reevaluate after we clinch? Try Fast again?

 

[3rd Guy High]

You don't criticize Rick Nash or any of the other veterans in the room in the media because they will run you out of town. The guys in the room respect them a hell of a lot more than a 21 year old rookie.

Look at Washington and the numerous amount of coaches that have criticized Ovechkin. All of them are gone, and I'm sure Oates will be too.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Yes. Being comfortable with being a minor league hockey player is certainly lowering your standards.

It all depends on perspective. In the scope of enjoying a job and earnings compared to the average 35-60k per year single earner Miller has a very very large portion of the world's historical population beat by a LOT.