JT Miller vs Ryan Kesler

[Love]

I don't agree he was bad against Hawks simply because of the stats. It's been a long time and I don't remember things that well to really describe his play in that series but I don't remember him being bad. That Hawks team was also one of the best of the era simply stacked.

As for his body not handling it well he certainly wasn't made of glass but I'll take a guy that gives it 100 percent every shift over a guy that picks his spots to save his body. Dumb luck can happen to anyone injuries are part of the game especially for someone who lays it out every shift.

The Preds series might be his highlight but it's certainly not his only claim to fame. He was a Selke winner who scored 41 I believe one year playing with not the most talented wingers. He did have the Sedins on the PP1 though. I think your under selling him somewhat and maybe I'm over selling him but he was a star regardless. Him as your 2C which he was is a great thing to have.

As per this conversation I'm still taking Kesler over Miller and Miller is a fabulous player but he is not a 1C. Neither was Kesler but if they are my 2C's I'm taking Kesler easily as my shut down 2 way 2C over Miller.

When you’re the 5th highest scoring centre in the NHL, you’re a 1C regardless of any irrational and poorly defined requiremnts people have on these boards for who is and isn’t a 1C.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Ryan Kesler has done much more to help bring a championship to Vancouver than JT Miller ever will. Kesler signed a sweetheart deal to help the team during it's best run ever even publicly stating he took less money to stay in Vancouver.

Miller will likely leave the same way Kesler left but just doesn't have a NTC. Kesler was drafted here, graduated through our minor league system worked himself up from a 4th liner to 2nd in the league in goals here, took less money to play here and worked his ass off here. Give me Kesler's legacy in Vancouver over JT Miller's any day of the week.

Kesler was a real sack of shit. One of the worst human beings I’ve come across. I could tell some stories but they are fairly disturbing: a bonafide sociopath. So no, I don’t think he has a good legacy in Vancouver. Most fans didn’t realize what a prick he was until he gave the Canucks one team to trade with.

Solid defensive player but a brutal playmaker and he had pretty average hands. Miller is a far superior offensive player so I’d give him the edge. Miller is the top player on this version of the Canucks by a mile while Kesler was an important complimentary piece

 

[Love]

I can’t believe how many folks value secondary points on a mediocre team with nothing on the line. Miller put up his numbers with ZERO on the line.

Was there “nothing on the line” when we made the playoffs and Miller led the team in points?

 

[Hit the post]

Was there “nothing on the line” when we made the playoffs and Miller led the team in points?

We made the playoffs that season only because COVID cut the season short. Club's momentum was decidedly going the wrong direction beforehand.

 

[racerjoe]

Kesler was a real sack of shit. One of the worst human beings I’ve come across. I could tell some stories but they are fairly disturbing: a bonafide sociopath. So no, I don’t think he has a good legacy in Vancouver. Most fans didn’t realize what a prick he was until he gave the Canucks one team to trade with.

Solid defensive player but a brutal playmaker and he had pretty average hands. Miller is a far superior offensive player so I’d give him the edge. Miller is the top player on this version of the Canucks by a mile while Kesler was an important complimentary piece

Solid defensive player putting up Selke winning seasons... Brutal playmaker with 50 apples... Average hands scoring 40 goals. Talk about down playing one player.

 

[4Twenty]

Was there “nothing on the line” when we made the playoffs and Miller led the team in points?

Well you see love, the op is comparing last season Miller to 2011 Kesler but if you want my take on that…

They made the playoffs because of covid. They were 5–9-2 before the pandemic stopped their slide.

Kesler was a real sack of shit. One of the worst human beings I’ve come across. I could tell some stories but they are fairly disturbing: a bonafide sociopath. So no, I don’t think he has a good legacy in Vancouver. Most fans didn’t realize what a prick he was until he gave the Canucks one team to trade with.

Solid defensive player but a brutal playmaker and he had pretty average hands. Miller is a far superior offensive player so I’d give him the edge. Miller is the top player on this version of the Canucks by a mile while Kesler was an important complimentary piece

Lol he’s no Willie Desjardins

How do folks value the big fish on a shite team as you all are saying over a complimentary (lol) yet most utilized all situations forward on the roster of a team that actually was good.


Let’s add some more context.

Kesler top PK forward for team 0.5% from tops in league.

Miller on a bottom 3 PK.

 

[Love]

We made the playoffs that season only because COVID cut the season short. Club's momentum was decidedly going the wrong direction beforehand.

Cool I agree. Not sure what it has to do with my post though.

Well you see love, the op is comparing last season Miller to 2011 Kesler but if you want my take on that…

They made the playoffs because of covid. They were 5–9-2 before the pandemic stopped their slide.

Again, what does this have to do with anything I said? Because it seems your argument is “playoffs games only matter if the team finished the regular season strong”

What kind of argument is that? Playoff games are always important.

 

[Hit the post]

Career NHL playoff goals:
JT Miller 9 goals in 78 games
Daniel Sedin 25 goals in 102 games
Henrik Sedin 23 goals in 105 games
Kesler 24 goals in 101 games

 

[racerjoe]

Career NHL playoff goals:
JT Miller 9 goals in 78 games
Daniel Sedin 25 goals in 102 games
Henrik Sedin 23 goals in 105 games
Kesler 24 goals in 101 games

That goal scoring machine Henrik... did not expect that.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

We made the playoffs that season only because COVID cut the season short. Club's momentum was decidedly going the wrong direction beforehand.

Thats conjecture though. really anything could have happened to end that season.

 

[Peen]

Thats conjecture though. really anything could have happened to end that season.

You’re right, anything could have happened.

But 4 RW’s in the 17 games prior, key injuries, and a general “uh oh the slide is happening again” feeling - I definitely have a lean towards what the likelier outcome was going to be.

Also, that Minnesota R1 qualifier series was very close if we are being honest.

 

[4Twenty]

Cool I agree. Not sure what it has to do with my post though.


Again, what does this have to do with anything I said? Because it seems your argument is “playoffs games only matter if the team finished the regular season strong”

What kind of argument is that? Playoff games are always important.

You asked if there was anything on the line in a season not being considered by the OP.

That’s what it has to do with something you said.


Then you made up some stupid argument that I haven’t made about playoff games only mattering sometimes.

The point, Miller put up his numbers here freelancing on mediocre teams.


Hurray for you for apparently valuing the bubble like the 2011 cup run!!!!!

Thats conjecture though. really anything could have happened to end that season.

Totally. They could’ve won the Gagarin cup too. We’ll just never know. Anything is possible.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

You asked if there was anything on the line in a season not being considered by the OP.

That’s what it has to do with something you said.


Then you made up some stupid argument that I haven’t made about playoff games only mattering sometimes.

The point, Miller put up his numbers here freelancing on mediocre teams.


Hurray for you for apparently valuing the bubble like the 2011 cup run!!!!!


Totally. They could’ve won the Gagarin cup too. We’ll just never know. Anything is possible.

And if you put down the bong, you might gain the clarity needed to know that condescending sarcasm is no replacement for truth. Even though its an easy way to win an argument on twitter.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

You’re right, anything could have happened.

But 4 RW’s in the 17 games prior, key injuries, and a general “uh oh the slide is happening again” feeling - I definitely have a lean towards what the likelier outcome was going to be.

Also, that Minnesota R1 qualifier series was very close if we are being honest.

Its stated as fact around here, which was easy because it discredited Benning. People only needed to do that because Benning was bad and here to long, it gained accepted as fact status because it served a purpose and the majority was never going to counter it.

But in the context of JT Miller, perhaps it needs to be recognised that its not a fact and should not be stated as fact, just an educated guess.

 

[Hit the post]

Its stated as fact around here, which was easy because it discredited Benning. People only needed to do that because Benning was bad and here to long, it gained accepted as fact status because it served a purpose and the majority was never going to counter it.

But in the context of JT Miller, perhaps it needs to be recognised that its not a fact and should not be stated as fact, just an educated guess.

I certainly wouldn't want my life on the line on whether the Canucks would've made the post-season or not had the season been of the regular length.

 

[4Twenty]

And if you put down the bong, you might gain the clarity needed to know that condescending sarcasm is no replacement for truth. Even though its an easy way to win an argument on twitter.

Oooooooh.

Ok. Anything could’ve happened. Let’s believe that the team trending the way it had for 5 of the 6 preceding seasons was going to magically one of at this stage. That’s essentially what you’re selling isn’t it?


The team that was 6th worst in 13/14, a bounce back in 14/15, but 2nd worst in 15/16, 3rd worst in 16/17, 7th worst in 17/18, 8th worst in 18/19 was magically going to avoid this pattern even though Markstrom, Boeser, and Tanev were all injured and the team was plummeting.

Hell right after the bubble when many folks expected the bubble experience would push them on, they finished bottom 10 AGAIN.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

We made the playoffs that season only because COVID cut the season short. Club's momentum was decidedly going the wrong direction beforehand.

Was it..?..I recall us winning 2 out of the last 3 ...(should have been 3 straight..CBJ eked out a 2-1 win ,after I dont know how many times we hit the crossbar in the 3rd).

 

[4Twenty]

Its stated as fact around here, which was easy because it discredited Benning. People only needed to do that because Benning was bad and here to long, it gained accepted as fact status because it served a purpose and the majority was never going to counter it.

But in the context of JT Miller, perhaps it needs to be recognised that its not a fact and should not be stated as fact, just an educated guess.

Or how’s about - they were the 17th best record in a 31 team league. That’s not guessing. That’s what the standings say.

NHL Hockey Standings | NHL.com

The official standings for the National Hockey League.

www.nhl.com

While it might not be a “fact” it’s pretty easy to deduce a team that was 17th overall and entirely mediocre, would plummet like they had for 5 of 6 seasons prior, with the injuries they had.


Making it about Benning is worse than my sarcasm pal. It’s a clear red herring.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Or how’s about - they were the 17th best record in a 31 team league. That’s not guessing. That’s what the standings say.

NHL Hockey Standings | NHL.com

The official standings for the National Hockey League.

www.nhl.com

While it might not be a “fact” it’s pretty easy to deduce a team that was 17th overall and entirely mediocre, would plummet like they had for 5 of 6 seasons prior, with the injuries they had.


Making it about Benning is worse than my sarcasm pal. It’s a clear red herring.

So basically you took the long way round to agreeing that yes it was not a fact and is infact conjecture… next time just hit the like button instead of using condescending sarcasm to attack a point that you can’t refute.

 

[Hit the post]

next time just hit the like button instead of using condescending sarcasm to attack a point that you can’t refute.

But that would eliminate like 80% of my posts.

 

[4Twenty]

So basically you took the long way round to agreeing that yes it was not a fact and is infact conjecture… next time just hit the like button instead of using condescending sarcasm to attack a point that you can’t refute.

Anything is possible.


Condescension in response to condescension….tasty.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

But that would eliminate like 80% of my posts.

Sarcasm, gifs and pop culture references all ways welcome.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Anything is possible.


Condescension in response to condescension….tasty.

Does it make me more right, or just make a weak point harder to argue against?

And just to clarify, I have both CBD and THC prescriptions, I was just being an A hole on purpose

 

[Pip]

Everything went right in Kes' peak seasons. The team was 1st in every category, he had 2 of the top 5 scorers in the league ahead of him, 2 goal scoring wingers and a lethal PP. Even the shutdown duties were given to Manny in 11. With all that, his production is still absolutely dwarfed by Miller. His beast mode vs Nashville still leaves him with only 1 more goal and point in 8 more games than JT's bubble run.

The season JT just had is more comparable to Henriks in 2011. He just did it without a Danny, Kes, loaded D or a competently run team. His next closest teammate was 45 spots down the scoring lead, and a Dman to boot!

JT is a better goal scorer, far better playmaker, not as fast but still a great skater. He can play in all situations, and I expect will be even better than last season if Bruce has the team clicking this year.

If you have both Kes and JT, and need both to play C, it's clear cut who the #1 is.

Not at all comparable to the Sedins’ years.

 

[Ruthervin]

Kesler's performances in 2011 against San Jose and Boston were underwhelming because the guy was playing on one leg!

Against Chicago, Kesler also took over the role over Manny Malhotra since Manny was out, and Kesler did an excellent job of containing and shutting down Toews.

With the exception of Pavel Bure, Kesler is probably my favourite Canucks playoff performer of all time. Special shout outs to Linden, Burrows, Gelinas, and Adams.