Confirmed with Link: JT Miller to Take Indefinite Leave of Absence for Personal Reasons

[Ernie]

Petterson has been playing though it all, while being called a baby by Miller and getting way more pressure in the media.

I really doubt that it is just that.

Yep some posters here have said absolutely horrible things about Pettersson but are now giving Miller a pass.

I think both players are super important for this team but worth mentioning Pettersson just kept playing through his issues despite all the hate. You'd think after having Naslund and the Sedins be the faces of this franchise for so many years that fans would be ok with personalities that aren't just "big macho hockey guy" but the Don Cherry caveman attitude persists.

 

[sting101]

This Miller vs Pettersson diatribe never ends... jeesh

Petterson has been playing though it all, while being called a baby by Miller and getting way more pressure in the media.

I really doubt that it's that

He never implied anything about EP40?

Yep some posters here have said absolutely horrible things about Pettersson but are now giving Miller a pass.

I think both players are super important for this team but worth mentioning Pettersson just kept playing through his issues despite all the hate. You'd think after having Naslund and the Sedins be the faces of this franchise for so many years that fans would be ok with personalities that aren't just "big macho hockey guy" but the Don Cherry caveman attitude persists.

It just might be that someone struggled amongst rumours he might want to force his way out of Vancouver then got a massive raise leaving nothing on the table and followed by being bad and soft during the Canucks best chance to win since 2012 and have nothing to do with Miller??

 

[FuzzyTitus]

I really don't think the anonymity is a factor. Like I said, people say vile stuff on Facebook, and for most people, that is their real name/identity. Hell, some of the worst posters/takists on Twitter use their real names. I think using their real names actually might drive even worse commentary - related to my point about social media incentives, it gives them more notoriety and drives their following. More attention.



I think this point is more or less related to my point about a lack of "consequences" for not ever really interacting with the person.

People are 1,000% more brave when they aren't in actually front of people. I don't think it's consequences, they've removed themselves from the fact there's a legitimate human on the other side. 0 forks given. In person, they often turn to muffins.

 

[Ernie]

It just might be that someone struggled amongst rumours he might want to force his way out of Vancouver then got a massive raise leaving nothing on the table and followed by being bad and soft during the Canucks best chance to win since 2012 and have nothing to do with Miller??

He did leave money on the table, he could have gotten $1m more on the market, perhaps more.

I don't know why fans are so butthurt about him wanting to wait and see. All the team did was lose for his first 6 years here. You get the same posters who are soooo angry at Benning but ignore that Pettersson played under his ineptitude for way too many years. It would make me pull my hair out to have that guy as my boss.

When he saw that things were different, he re-signed. Sure, he waited a couple more months and that made fans feel anxious, but nothing he did was unreasonable.

 

[Curm]

I hope all is well for Miller, and his family, but between this, the Demko injury, Joshua's cancer, Boeser's cheap shot and resulting injury, and Pettersson funk, that's a boatload of adversity involving the core of the team.

Once all is resolved, and hopefully everybody is healthy and back to their old ways, they could be a better club for it. I'm also glad it's occurring in the first quarter of the season and not the last quarter.

 

[ChilliBilly]

History repeats itself. Every time a new communications medium takes over, it has been co-opted by disinformation spreaders as well as revolutionaries.

In the mid 1800s it was the "wide awakes" revolution driven by the literacy boom and the printing press - hordes of people literally threw printing presses into rivers from authors they hated. This led to Lincoln's rise and the civil war.

How a Newspaper Revolution Led to the 'Wide Awakes'—and the Civil War

In the mid-1800s, a boom in media outlets created a massive political movement—and plenty of disinformation.

www.atlasobscura.com

In the early 1900s it was radio and later, TV fueling nationalism and two world wars.

Today it's the Internet and especially social media driving disinformation, manipulation and polarization.

It's not a good look if history is any guide.

There is a book by James Fell coming out soon (next year I believe). it's called "Greedy Sexist Religious Bigots: A History of Humanity." His first two books On this day in History Shit went Down vol 1 & 2 are full of swearing and very interesting and amusing facts about each day of the year. Very worth while.

Edit - I bought 3 signed copies of each of them. excellent WC visitation reading material. Gave copies to my 2 best friends.

 

[M2Beezy]

Man I love (and now miss) those JT Miller chants

 

[mriswith]

Yep some posters here have said absolutely horrible things about Pettersson but are now giving Miller a pass.

I think both players are super important for this team but worth mentioning Pettersson just kept playing through his issues despite all the hate. You'd think after having Naslund and the Sedins be the faces of this franchise for so many years that fans would be ok with personalities that aren't just "big macho hockey guy" but the Don Cherry caveman attitude persists.

The funny thing to me is I think EP is a little too macho for his own good, he wants to hit and be physical a little too much and he's overly stoic. It's just that somehow in hockey culture stoicism and emotional control are seen as not manly, and temper tantrums are seen as displays of manliness, a notion that is ass backwards to how most of the rest of the world views it.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I really don't think the anonymity is a factor. Like I said, people say vile stuff on Facebook, and for most people, that is their real name/identity. Hell, some of the worst posters/takists on Twitter use their real names. I think using their real names actually might drive even worse commentary - related to my point about social media incentives, it gives them more notoriety and drives their following. More attention.

The people they are responding to are not physical humans but pictures and names.

I think you must understand the abstraction that this causes to understand the phenomeno of people acting online in ways they would NEVER act in face to face interactions.

I think this point is more or less related to my point about a lack of "consequences" for not ever really interacting with the person.

I think its more about our empathy / sympathy circuits not firing because of the things I mentioned.

This Miller vs Pettersson diatribe never ends... jeesh


He never implied anything about EP40?

It just might be that someone struggled amongst rumours he might want to force his way out of Vancouver then got a massive raise leaving nothing on the table and followed by being bad and soft during the Canucks best chance to win since 2012 and have nothing to do with Miller??

No there is 100% a double standard.

And its very easy to see why its happening.

Also a ton of ego involved. People made them selves look a bit silly insisting EP was healthy while you can see his skating metrics are in the tank, and now they dont want to admit that. Instead they make more and more ridiculous claims instead.


But on topic. This Miller leave of absence might actually be a positive sign that the management and health department has learned from their previous mistakes.

 

[Raistlin]

I really don't think the anonymity is a factor. Like I said, people say vile stuff on Facebook, and for most people, that is their real name/identity. Hell, some of the worst posters/takists on Twitter use their real names. I think using their real names actually might drive even worse commentary - related to my point about social media incentives, it gives them more notoriety and drives their following. More attention.



I think this point is more or less related to my point about a lack of "consequences" for not ever really interacting with the person.

Anonymity and not having to deal with consequences of your words are very much linked.

Anonymity makes regularly timid personalities lash out and say stuff they they don't want associated with themselves, just opens the door for more trolling. The ability to log off and not having to deal with irresponsible and damaging remarks or comebacks emboldens the troll to do it again, it's a rush of getting away with lashing out.

 

[Raistlin]

EP dealing with injury or confidence issues stoicly while not missing games is due to his belief that he can overcome it by simply repeating the process and working out the kinks. People are frustrated because it's not working. His caring about social media is a bad practice which he reluctantly abandoned finally. That move people applauded because he's trying something different and breaking a spiral. We almost see results instantaneously.

Miller taking time off to decompress is because he reached a point where he believe he cannot overcome the mental pressure he puts on himself, and forces himself to distance. They are not comparable and many are giving Miller a pass because they acknowledge that this is not a step to take lightly, and this is his deleting social media moment where he seeks external help. Why would you fault a guy for taking drastic steps??

 

[PuckMunchkin]

EP dealing with injury or confidence issues stoicly while not missing games is due to his belief that he can overcome it by simply repeating the process and working out the kinks. People are frustrated because it's not working. His caring about social media is a bad practice which he reluctantly abandoned finally. That move people applauded because he's trying something different and breaking a spiral. We almost see results instantaneously.

Miller taking time off to decompress is because he reached a point where he believe he cannot overcome the mental pressure he puts on himself, and forces himself to distance. They are not comparable and many are giving Miller a pass because they acknowledge that this is not a step to take lightly, and this is his deleting social media moment where he seeks external help. Why would you fault a guy for taking drastic steps??

Are these REALLY just the players decisions?

If this is true its a horrifically backwards process in the NHL for 2024.

 

[Raistlin]

Are these REALLY just the players decisions?

If this is true its a horrifically backwards process in the NHL for 2024.

If a player won't or cannot put into words what's going on in their heads, how do a third party diagnose them? You then just assume they are slumping, and the coach gives them a technical breakdown of their game. A great coach will coax them to reveal the mental deficiencies that's creeping into their game. Is tocchet that guy? He was with Kessel.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

If a player won't or cannot put into words what's going on in their heads, how do a third party diagnose them? You then just assume they are slumping, and the coach gives them a technical breakdown of their game. A great coach will coax them to reveal the mental deficiencies that's creeping into their game. Is tocchet that guy? He was with Kessel.

I keep hearing this about Mikheyevs knee stuff, Petterssons physical and mental health. That its just on the player to know and decide.

Do they not evaluate the players physical and mental conditions as the season progresses at all?

 

[jd22]

There is a book by James Fell coming out soon (next year I believe). it's called "Greedy Sexist Religious Bigots: A History of Humanity." His first two books On this day in History Shit went Down vol 1 & 2 are full of swearing and very interesting and amusing facts about each day of the year. Very worth while.

Edit - I bought 3 signed copies of each of them. excellent WC visitation reading material. Gave copies to my 2 best friends.

Sounds great, I'll have to check it out.

WC though? From a north American? Genuinely curious if you use WC in everyday life rather than bathroom.

 

[Hodgy]

Its a bit humorous that some are suggesting Miller receives preferential treatment from the fanbase given that Miller was almost run out of town by this fanbase a couple of years ago.

Miller, while struggling this year, is still at basically a point per game player. Pettersson was at like half of that when he was receiving the bulk of the criticism (but the fans were still being super supportive and chanting his name).

At the end of the day, the players have very different injuries and Miller clearly has something else significant going on beyond just injuries, so any comparison between how the fanbase has treated each player is mostly unwarranted.

 

[bobbyb2009]

I hope all is well for Miller, and his family, but between this, the Demko injury, Joshua's cancer, Boeser's cheap shot and resulting injury, and Pettersson funk, that's a boatload of adversity involving the core of the team.

Once all is resolved, and hopefully everybody is healthy and back to their old ways, they could be a better club for it. I'm also glad it's occurring in the first quarter of the season and not the last quarter.

Knock on wood and take care Quinn Hughes Yikes

 

[racerjoe]

One of them was playing with a 40 goal scorer, the other was playing with a guy who just scored his first in like what 50 games? One was playing well defensively the other was being benched for it…

I give passes to both, and like I have said in another thread, JT might be my favourite current Canuck, but strictly talking about how they have been treated while going through something, (I think both started with injuries) is insane. No one besides maybe Toc has said anything negative about JT. People have been clamouring to trade Petey…. It’s just been crazy.

 

[bobbyb2009]

Its a bit humorous that some are suggesting Miller receives preferential treatment from the fanbase given that Miller was almost run out of town by this fanbase a couple of years ago.

Miller, while struggling this year, is still at basically a point per game player. Pettersson was at like half of that when he was receiving the bulk of the criticism (but the fans were still being super supportive and chanting his name).

At the end of the day, the players have very different injuries and Miller clearly has something else significant going on beyond just injuries, so any comparison between how the fanbase has treated each player is mostly unwarranted.

Not that I am taking a side on this one, but what?? Are you saying Petey doesn't have more than just injuries going on. Even he said, "we are all dealing with stuff."

I think it is really clear:
1) Hockey players are human and go through stuff that effects their performance from time to time
2) Petey was going through a lot, and more than just injuries
3) Miller is going through a lot, and more than just injuries
4) Petey has not endeared himself to everyone in that room, but he is a special gifted athlete and player, and a unique person
5) Miller has not endeared himself to everyone in that room, but he is a beast of an athlete and player and has led this team on the ice in many ways, and a unique person
6) Neither seems like they are everyone's cup of tea
7) Miller was probably a little insensitive to a struggling teammate with his baby comments and should probably look inwards to see his part in making others round him feel good about themselves. Love that he pushes others to do what he just did. He has grown a lot as a moody and lazy ass goofball into a beast, and it might be better for the team for him to have more empathy for others needing growth.
8) Petey should probably grow up a little, learn some social skills, and get on with being a better teammate, and he almost certainly will make progress over the years. But he deserves the same support through his struggles as anybody else might get

I don't think there is any reasonable way anyone could say Miller has been a great teammate to all and behaved perfectly. And I don't think anyone should be piling on either of these guys or say that one deserves more support than the other. Right now, one his getting WAY more support than the other.

But that is just my .000001 cents worth

 

[sting101]

He did leave money on the table, he could have gotten $1m more on the market, perhaps more.

I don't know why fans are so butthurt about him wanting to wait and see. All the team did was lose for his first 6 years here. You get the same posters who are soooo angry at Benning but ignore that Pettersson played under his ineptitude for way too many years. It would make me pull my hair out to have that guy as my boss.

When he saw that things were different, he re-signed. Sure, he waited a couple more months and that made fans feel anxious, but nothing he did was unreasonable.

My point is posters have been calling Miller horrendous crap for years mostly because they didnt like his personality the trade some meltdowns and decided to use derogatory terms and some are still poking this bear.

So now EP40 has some issues during a period where the stakes are immense and Miller fans or just idiot trolls or neither (maybe just pissed off fans) decide to do this to Pettersson.

Now you want to make this about this about Miller vs Pettersson by saying
"some posters here have said absolutely horrible things about Pettersson but are now giving Miller a pass"...... "you would think that fans would be ok with personalities that aren't just "big macho hockey guy" but the Don Cherry caveman attitude persists."

This is a cop out and how people dodge accountability by deflecting

You really think it's fair to frame things like this?? So because some of the Miller guys trashed Petey. Miller shouldn't be getting the pass? And you think you can post a statement like that framing certain fans as "macho cavemen" Miller fans and expect to get reasonable discourse and compassion for both the player equally?

 

[credulous]

i'm the first to admit i find miller a really hard person to like and i hate that he plays for my favorite team but i'm also not out here calling him a baby or whatever for taking care of himself

meanwhile a lot of people who just last week were calling pettersson mentally weak or a quitter or lacking commitment to the team because he wasn't playing well are suddenly all for this new progressive approach to managing mental health on display because miller is taking time away. surely you see a double standard there?

if there were people last week calling for pettersson to take some time away and who are now calling miller mentally weak then by all means call them out but disliking miller and liking pettersson isn't the same thing as being a hypocrite

 

[bossram]

The people they are responding to are not physical humans but pictures and names.

I think you must understand the abstraction that this causes to understand the phenomeno of people acting online in ways they would NEVER act in face to face interactions.

I think its more about our empathy / sympathy circuits not firing because of the things I mentioned.

I get the argument, but I don't really believe it. People do nasty and awful things to each other all the time. Including "in person". Think of all the atrocities throughout history, and ongoing ones today. People are naturally horrible to anyone outside "their tribe".

Social media creates an incentive structure for this behaviour in the online space.

Anonymity and not having to deal with consequences of your words are very much linked.

Anonymity makes regularly timid personalities lash out and say stuff they they don't want associated with themselves, just opens the door for more trolling. The ability to log off and not having to deal with irresponsible and damaging remarks or comebacks emboldens the troll to do it again, it's a rush of getting away with lashing out.

I truly do not believe this. The worst offenders of this kind of behaviour have their name attached. Facebook is the same - mostly real names.

 

[Raistlin]

i'm the first to admit i find miller a really hard person to like and i hate that he plays for my favorite team but i'm also not out here calling him a baby or whatever for taking care of himself

meanwhile a lot of people who just last week were calling pettersson mentally weak or a quitter or lacking commitment to the team because he wasn't playing well are suddenly all for this new progressive approach to managing mental health on display because miller is taking time away. surely you see a double standard there?

if there were people last week calling for pettersson to take some time away and who are now calling miller mentally weak then by all means call them out but disliking miller and liking pettersson isn't the same thing as being a hypocrite

Well if you have to label it and be unabashedly blunt, having to take time off to deal with mental stress issues can be considered "weak" in the old school hockey sense. I just thought we are past that as a society to stigmatise mental health issues. Personally I called out EP for not seeking help, not commitment issues, not for being a quitter, because he was doing his defensive duties throughout. But because I think it was all in his mental approach, once he took the "drastic" step of removing his online presence, which is like lobbing off an arm to these mid 20s. I think he will be better off. And voila. His mysterious nagging injury is not in the way of his contributing.

Once again, that's just me, and I did not pay attention to others' critiques of EP's ineffectiveness the past 40+ games.

I truely do not believe this. The worst offenders of this kind of behaviour have their name attached. Facebook is the same - mostly real names.

Agree to disagree then.

 

[Ernie]

My point is posters have been calling Miller horrendous crap for years mostly because they didnt like his personality the trade some meltdowns and decided to use derogatory terms and some are still poking this bear.

So now EP40 has some issues during a period where the stakes are immense and Miller fans or just idiot trolls or neither (maybe just pissed off fans) decide to do this to Pettersson.

Now you want to make this about this about Miller vs Pettersson by saying
"some posters here have said absolutely horrible things about Pettersson but are now giving Miller a pass"...... "you would think that fans would be ok with personalities that aren't just "big macho hockey guy" but the Don Cherry caveman attitude persists."

This is a cop out and how people dodge accountability by deflecting

You really think it's fair to frame things like this?? So because some of the Miller guys trashed Petey. Miller shouldn't be getting the pass? And you think you can post a statement like that framing certain fans as "macho cavemen" Miller fans and expect to get reasonable discourse and compassion for both the player equally?

Whoa now. I never said that Miller shouldn't be taking the time to get healthy. I hope he does. But it's pretty crappy to have acted like that to Pettersson given the situation.

Literally 1 post ago you just said that the Pettersson hate was justified. And somehow you think I'm the one deflecting?