Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[boxbox]

not at all but if Norris scores 30 this year at 8m in a 95M salary cap he is worth his salary. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him if they are going to acquire someone else to be second line C and replace his output. You also have to look at the effect trading someone like Norris would have with Tkachuk and the rest of the locker room.

but again I also understand Norris is a ticking time bomb and the best opportunity to get him off the books is no

- 82.5M salary cap in year ONE (8 year deal)
- 83.5M salary cap in year TWO (8 year deal)
- 88.0M salary cap in year THREE /current season
- 92.5M salary cap scheduled for year FOUR

8M for a 30 goal scorer in a 95M salary cap is far more appealing than 8M for a 30 goal scorer in a 82.5M/83.5M/88M salary cap

Scoring is essential to the game of hockey, that goes withtout saying... I am just not to crazy about it when the teams 1C/key playmakers is on pace(82 games) to finish with 30 goals and 17 assists.

 

[vandelay]

Norris’s competitiveness and focus is fun to watch, big goals down the stretch and a battle level that embraces Travis Green’s desire to choke guys out and play suffocating hockey. Norris gets joy out of battling for pucks and playing against the top players on the opposition. The last stretch of games the entire Sens team is like a controlled pack of rabbit dogs. Theres true emotion there and Norris is one of the guys who sets the blueprint.

The ultimate pet, no? :p

My guess is garrioch is not completely wrong but it's more a case of other teams inquiring on a buy low candidate.

 

[PlayersLtd]

My guess is Garrioch is completely wrong. This administration is notoriously tight lipped and learned their lesson with the Brady stuff. If anything he's bringing something up from earlier in the year that isn't entirely relevant now.

 

[HSF]

Norris has 17 goals. On pace for over 30.

He wins faceoffs an starts more shifts in the defensive zone than any other Senator.

Ya he costs a pretty penny but it is hard to get a better player than him back in a trade, it just is. There aren't many one for one trades.

To me it makes no sense to trade a guy who is only going to continue to score and win faceoffs.

30 goals and being a faceoff specialist is not enough for 8mill imo. A lot of these guys like Stuztle will get better in the dot as they mature

I think his bad shoulder is also a huge risk

 

[Cosmix]

League executives say the Senators would like to get centre Josh Norris and his $7.95-million salary cap hit off the books, but not many teams can take on that contract without giving Ottawa something back.

Ottawa Senators are in NHL playoff mix, but challenge is staying there

Saturday's 5-0 victory in Pittsburgh gave them a 20-18-3 record midway through the schedule.

ottawacitizen.com

He’s written about it a bunch, but this might’ve been the most recent one.

Thank for posting this. I did a search and came up with zilch.

I wonder who "league executives" are?

 

[Cosmix]

30 goals and being a faceoff specialist is not enough for 8mill imo. A lot of these guys like Stuztle will get better in the dot as they mature

I think his bad shoulder is also a huge risk

I agree; however, I think we are dealing with a bad situation and Josh is a sunk cost. I doubt any team is going to give us a top 6 NHL player back in a trade that would make such a trade worthwhile. Would be great if we could acquire an young offensive center for a draft pick and move Josh to the wing; alternately we could move Pinto to 2C and try to acquire a big strong defensive C. Our salary cap does not provide any room to pay a good one so I don't know how we could accomplish it as Perron is likely untradeable.

 

[Cosmix]

The idea of trading Norris is sort of nuts at this point. On his current pace his market value is probably 5.5 to 6.0 million/year. But then you gotta get that player on the open market for that price to be willing to be in Ottawa long term.

Then you add in a rising cap and the high likelihood that he shows future improvement since he's lost two years essentially...

If he ends up being a 65 point guy with 30 goals at 27 years old then we're going to regret trading him to save a mil or two a year. If you're worried about the extra $$$ maybe don't sign players like Perron...

The Perron signing has certainly blown up in Staios' face.

 

[OD99]

We are already struggling to score goals.

Where would the 30ish ones that Norris provides come from?

He is certainly the new whipping boy up front.

"He is a one-trick pony and only scores because of his one-timer on the PP". Well, he is on pace for 30+ and never gets set up there.

The really wild ones were about him being a bad skater! That has finally been thrown our the window with the new stats.

His FO%, his PK ability, etc...it's a good package despite him not being a classic distributor of the puck.

Let's see him come back after a proper off season of training for the 1st time in what, 3 years? He won't fall off a cliff, and I am curious to see what his ceiling really is.

 

[bicboi64]

Either Norris underperforms his salary by one or two millions, which is ok by me, or he bounces back to his pre-injury level (yay!), or the next shoulder injury probably means he needs to be LTIR'd, in which case it clears money to sign someone else. Finding a trade that returns value better than the expected value of those three outcomes is not going to be easy, and personally I'd stay away and stay put.

This is the main reason I don't think Norris will end up getting moved.

It won't be easy to replace his production and role in our own end.

 

[Tuna99]

The Perron signing has certainly blown up in Staios' face.

It’s circumstantial, this could have happened to anyone, Perron deserves the benefit of the doubt andst a few big goals down the stretch and a solid playoffs is well within his wheel house

 

[Big Muddy]

Either Norris underperforms his salary by one or two millions, which is ok by me, or he bounces back to his pre-injury level (yay!), or the next shoulder injury probably means he needs to be LTIR'd, in which case it clears money to sign someone else. Finding a trade that returns value better than the expected value of those three outcomes is not going to be easy, and personally I'd stay away and stay put.

I think maybe some are thinking that we’ll clear $7.95 m of cap space by trading Norris.

I think most teams are going to have send a player back in the trade though. So, if they send a player back, we’ll have the player we receive in the trade and maybe another $3 or 4 million of available (freed/cleared) cap space to spend on another player. Ultimately, that seems like we’ll end up with a couple of 3rd liners versus having Norris. That doesn’t seem to be a real solution or congruent with the goal of getting a better player that will produce more than Norris.

The potential exceptions are the teams that have gobs of cap space like CBJ, Calgary & Anaheim. Those teams could probably absorb Norris’s salary without sending back cap. The rebuilding teams in my mind are more likely to draft their future core & centers though, or perhaps already have a prospect they already drafted that should graduate soon.

So, if the Senators still want to do this, it seems more likely they’ll try it in the off season. This is just a few idea & best guesses that I have on this subject. A full year of playing might also allay any lingering fears of a potential re-injure situation as well.

 

[DrEasy]

I think maybe some are thinking that we’ll clear $7.95 m of cap space by trading Norris.

I think most teams are going to have send a player back in the trade though. So, if they send a player back, we’ll have the player we receive in the trade and maybe another $3 or 4 million of available (freed/cleared) cap space to spend on another player. Ultimately, that seems like we’ll end up with a couple of 3rd liners versus having Norris. That doesn’t seem to be a real solution or congruent with the goal of getting a better player that will produce more than Norris.

The potential exceptions are the teams that have gobs of cap space like CBJ, Calgary & Anaheim. Those teams could probably absorb Norris’s salary without sending back cap. The rebuilding teams in my mind are more likely to draft their future core & centers though, or perhaps already have a prospect they already drafted that should graduate soon.

So, if the Senators still want to do this, it seems more likely they’ll try it in the off season. This is just a few idea & best guesses that I have on this subject. A full year of playing might also allay any lingering fears of a potential re-injure situation as well.

Yeah, I don't think that would be a good way to trade Norris. If we want to clear some cap AND receive a player, we end up with a foot soldier in return, and room to sign another foot soldier. But we have plenty of those already. For $4M we can get signed young guys like Greig and veteran FAs like Perron. Norris for Greig + room to sign a guy like Perron would be terrible IMO.

For those who want to trade him, I think the best outcome would be to get a player of similar ability at a similar salary, but at a different position (say, a young-ish top 6 scoring winger). And presumably with red flags of his own, since otherwise why would the other team want to trade him? So maybe something like a swap of Norris for Laine, when he was still in Columbus, with various smaller pieces to even out the value?

Nah, still better to just stay put.

 

[aragorn]

The team is playing well & people want to trade one of our best two way young goal scorers, makes zero sense.

 

[Benjamin]

Norris is invaluable. He does everything for us and is still young. He's a core player. Yes, he's overpaid but it is what it is. Caps going up.

High effort battler, PKer, faceoff guy AND a natural goal scorer.

 

[LiseL]

I thought this was interesting:



Honestly we’re probably a better team with Norris at centre because when everyone’s going it allows us to run 4 decent lines, but during one of the cold streaks they really should try Norris on Stützle’s wing. Feels like that would be a game changer if they ended up having great chemistry.

Also wouldn't hurt putting Norris in the slot position for his one-timer and Brady back in front of the net on PP1. Don't understand the logic of doing the opposite like they're doing now. It's certainly not working, PP numbers are way down in the last 18 games compared to the first 28.

 

[LiseL]

We paid Norris for his potential. He has the ability to be an 8 mil+ guy.

I entirely agree with the Hertl/JT Miller talk. I'd even say Sam Reinhart/Nico Hischier etc.

There's so much untapped potential there. This is a guy who dominated the AHL finishing 3rd in points as a rookie and 30 goals. 10 goals in 17 games in NCAA before injury. One of the best on his WJC team. He has shown to be among the leaders in skill and performance on whatever team he is on.

The only concern is injuries. Otherwise, I see several 65-70+ point seasons with great 2 way play.

The fact he has the 2nd most hits on the team (behind only Brady) tells me his shoulder is just fine. In a recent interview on CIH podcast, he said the shoulder is great but he did have to overcome the mental side of things earlier in the season (which he now has). He's also given a lot of defensive reponsibility by the coaching staff which would affect his production. I mentioned earlier that I would like to see him back in the one-timer position on PP1 instead of beside the net. I think his goal production would increase and it would help getting the PP going again.

 

[LiseL]

Where the f*** was his first goals?

Don't know if anyone else replied but he tipped the Sanderson shot so Sandy got the A, not the goal.

 

[LiseL]

not at all but if Norris scores 30 this year at 8m in a 95M salary cap he is worth his salary. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him if they are going to acquire someone else to be second line C and replace his output. You also have to look at the effect trading someone like Norris would have with Tkachuk and the rest of the locker room.

but again I also understand Norris is a ticking time bomb and the best opportunity to get him off the books is now.

If we want to talk about a ticking time bomb, Zub and Ullmark come to mind. They getting rid of them too? If his shoulder was bothering him, he wouldn't be 2nd in hits on this team IMO. Shoulder surgeries can be successful for the long haul, look at Tarasenko as a comparable. He too had 3 shoulder surgeries and has been playing regularly since the last one. Bodes well for Norris.

 

[HSF]

If we want to talk about a ticking time bomb, Zub and Ullmark come to mind. They getting rid of them too? If his shoulder was bothering him, he wouldn't be 2nd in hits on this team IMO. Shoulder surgeries can be successful for the long haul, look at Tarasenko as a comparable. He too had 3 shoulder surgeries and has been playing regularly since the last one. Bodes well for Norris.

comparing a Vezina goalie to Norris is wild

 

[Micklebot]

comparing a Vezina goalie to Norris is wild

You're right, we have more to lose if his back is a ticking time bomb making it a bigger deal.

 

[aragorn]

Also wouldn't hurt putting Norris in the slot position for his one-timer and Brady back in front of the net on PP1. Don't understand the logic of doing the opposite like they're doing now. It's certainly not working, PP numbers are way down in the last 18 games compared to the first 28.

I think that is going to happen over a season when your PP is working well you will find that others will copy what you're doing & they will also put plans in affect to stop it. The NHL is a copy cat league & we can see where most teams play a similar game & do similar things on special teams & 5 on 5. The teams that are structurally sound, have strong special teams & good vet players in key positions are usually the better teams & those that can play in different ways.