Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[Gil Gunderson]

Swift what makes you believe that Norris will be ready for next week? Hasn't played one preseason game? I hope you're right but I have some serious doubts

The Sens have never been wrong about an injury situation.

 

[KingAlfie11]

I like my doctor, but man he needs to go to medical school.

Yeah you need to switch doctor, make sure the next one has a medical degree

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Who shoulders the blame if Norris is out long term

 

[Xspyrit]

When a player is not "100% ready" is actually when you can play the LTIR, which considering the cap situation is well played by the Sens, so Norris will most likely start the year on LTIR, Sens will sign Pinto and then Norris will come back but enough cap space will have been created to fit everyone by then without losing anyone else

I knew it was the most likely outcome

 

[BondraTime]

When a player is not "100% ready" is actually when you can play the LTIR, which considering the cap situation is well played by the Sens, so Norris will most likely start the year on LTIR, Sens will sign Pinto and then Norris will come back but enough cap space will have been created to fit everyone by then without losing anyone else

I knew it was the most likely outcome

No cap space will have been created

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Why should we LTIR him when he's going to be ready to start the season?

Do you really believe that at this point?

 

[armani]

Who shoulders the blame if Norris is out long term

Norris’ shoulders.

 

[Micklebot]

Do you really believe that at this point?

Well, he won't be LTIR'd until the season starts regardless, since LTIR doesn't do anything for us until then.

 

[ottawagm]

Why should we LTIR him when he's going to be ready to start the season?

Which season?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well, he won't be LTIR'd until the season starts regardless, since LTIR doesn't do anything for us until then.

For sure, I'm just referring to him being available opening night. I'm not expecting that if we're still having setbacks on the doorstep of the season after such a long time since the surgery.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Hard disagree here. At the time there was a ton of posters here advocating for a bridge deal as his goal scoring wasn't necessarily sustainable. I was not at all a fan of the contract at the time and I'm sure there's older comments on this account voicing that opinion.

He wasn't paid like a 40+ goal C though. He certainly didn't take a discount, but he got market value for an RFA deal. He wasn't coming in any cheaper long term. A bridge would have been nearly 6M. Look at the recent 3 x 5.75M bridge deal for Zegras, and then look at nearly every young player who has signed for 7-8M on a longer term deal. Similar to how 10 years ago the magic number for a young top 6 forward coming off their ELC was 6M on a 6-8 year deal, now with cap inflation it's 8M.

If he were paid like a near 50 goal scorer, he would have gotten close to the same AAV but only had to give up RFA years, so maybe a 3 year bridge deal like Jason Robertson got. 8M with no signing bonuses, no NMC, no major concessions, while giving up multiple UFA years, that's not top guy money anymore. That's what all the core young stars get in today's NHL, unless a team doesn't have cap to go long term.

 

[Micklebot]

The Sens have never been wrong about an injury situation.

So what you're saying is they are wrong to hold him out because there is no tweakams he's been 100% this whole time?

That's a relief...

 

[HSF]

He was a tad bit overpaid longterm. Confirmed when Cozens signed for less after him

but ya you have to take this management group and what they say with a grain of salt. Boucher also had a tweak and has yet to play in camp.

 

[swiftwin]

Why isn't he playing tomorrow? Last week everyone said he was going to be ready to get into the last 2 pre-season games...

You didn't answer the question. Why should we LTIR him?

 

[Ouroboros]

Norris' shoulder is the Tyler Boucher's groin of shoulders.

 

[Icelevel]

Norris' shoulder is the Tyler Boucher's groin of shoulders.

Maybe we can Frankenstein an nhl player out of those two.

 

[Micklebot]

He was a tad bit overpaid longterm. Confirmed when Cozens signed for less after him

but ya you have to take this management group and what they say with a grain of salt. Boucher also had a tweak and has yet to play in camp.

Well, Norris' deal does buy one more UFA year, and Norris did score more goals in fewer games.

I'd also caution using one example as proof Norris was overpaid, is it not equally possible Cozens is underpaid?

 

[swiftwin]

Nobody seems to remember this, but the recovery time for Norris' surgery was supposed to be 9 months. That was the whole point of playing him last January.

When he first got injured at the beginning of the season, he had to decide between rehab and surgery. The risk with going for rehab was that there was a chance that all the rehab in the world wouldn't be enough and surgery would be required anyways. The reasoning with playing him last January was that if he needed to have surgery, he needed to know and have it done then and there to be ready just in time for this season. Norris is roughly on track with his estimated return of 9 months after surgery. Pushing his return back a couple pre-season games is no reason to freak out and put him on LTIR.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Norris' shoulder is the Tyler Boucher's groin of shoulders.

Tyler Bouchers groin is the Auston Watson's face of punching bag of groins.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

You didn't answer the question. Why should we LTIR him?

I never said we should LTIR him.

I also never said he'd be ready to play the opener.

There's really no reason to believe, right now, that he's going to go on LTIR. There's also no reason to believe, right now, that he's healthy enough to play NHL games.

 

[swiftwin]

I never said we should LTIR him.

I also never said he'd be ready to play the opener.

There's really no reason to believe, right now, that he's going to go on LTIR. There's also no reason to believe, right now, that he's healthy enough to play NHL games.

There's no reason to believe he's not healthy enough to start the season.

 

[swiftwin]

Norris said this in early August:

"Yeah, I feel good," Norris said. "The first four to five months was the main grunt work. I kinda started to turn a corner probably about a month ago or so (July). And I'm feeling really good. I've been on the ice a ton. I'm back to training normally now which is kinda nice."

Norris does say he's still going to rehab, but says he should be ready to play in some of the club's eight preseason games, which run from September 24th to October 7th.

"I mean, yeah, I would assume so," Norris said. "My goal is to be ready for opening night. Obviously, I'd like to get some preseason games in if that's the case. I don't think I'm going to get thrown right to the wolves on night one. Obviously, if things are looking good, and I think they are right now, then I should be ready."

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/ottawa-senators/news/josh-norris-on-his-recovery-i-started-to-turn-a-corner-about-a-month-ago

Even as far back as early August, there was some doubt that Norris would play the early pre-season games, as he was still doing some rehab. It's no surprise he started training camp with a non-contact jersey.

He's still on track, and there's been no indication of re-aggravation or needing another surgery as some have rumored.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread or not, but Mendes was on Coming in Hot and said Norris looks good in intense 3 on 3 battle drills; initiating contact, aggressive and physical. So based on that, I am confident he will play in the final preseason game next Sat. and be ready for the start of the season. At least that's what I am telling myself.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

He was a tad bit overpaid longterm. Confirmed when Cozens signed for less after him

but ya you have to take this management group and what they say with a grain of salt. Boucher also had a tweak and has yet to play in camp.

Norris gave up 4 UFA years, Cozens gave up only 3. Norris also had better production, although it is fair to argue that Cozens status was higher as a young player/prospect.

I would say they are pretty interchangeable as far as contracts go, and further prove the point that there is a 7M-8M 7-8 year type market for long term contracts that go to young star players who aren't tippy top franchise players. Similar to how 10 years ago, everyone on HFBoards was appalled that the same tier of young players under the lesser cap were getting 6x6.

Norris left no money on the table and made the Senators paid at the top of the market value, but the point is that I don't think it was out of line with the market or a bad risk to take. These U26 contracts have to be judged with the prospect of how easy it is to get out of them with a buyout and how often these contracts end up becoming bargains.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

There's no reason to believe he's not healthy enough to start the season.

Sure there is. He's not healthy enough to play tomorrow. And he wasn't healthy enough to practice today.

The plan was to get him into 2 preseason games. But he's not healthy enough to do it.

DJ Smith said he was "hopeful" he could go on Saturday. He didn't say he would go on Saturday.

Previously, he was hopeful he'd get a game out East. Then he was hopeful he'd play in Winnipeg. Neither has come to fruition.

The plan, and hope, may still be for him to start the season. But the plan is already off course. So there's plenty of reason to question whether the plan will actually be reality.