Player Discussion Jordan Harris part 2

[CDN24]

Is there a spot for Jordan Harris longterm? Habs can't keep every D prospect/young player...

I would not sleep on Harris. Of the 3 young LD long term I think Ghule is the best, Harris is probably better than Xhekaj. Xhekaj brings something the others don't with his physicality but Harris is and will be the better D-man. If ever Hutson pans out and you move one of these it may well be Harris but don't be quick to dump him. Statistically last year he was probably the best of the 3 and it was not all against 3rd and 4th lines.

If you look at the time each played 5-5 with Suzuki , that should be a good proxy for time against other teams top lines. Harris played 325 mins with Suzuki, Ghule 260 mins and Xhekaj 185 mins. While Harris led the other 2 were injured as a % of total 5-5 TOI, Ghule played 40% of his time with Suzuki, Harris 34% and Xhekaj 24% of his time.

IF you look at CF% while with Suzuki, Harris is best at 48%, Xhekaj next at 46% and Ghule at 43.82. Interesting that Suzuki's CF% improved away from Xhekaj and Guhle but went down when Harris was not on ice with him

If you look at GF% with Suzuki, Harris is at 57.14%, Xhekaj at 46.67 and Ghule at 44.44. Again Suzuki's GF% goes up without Xhekaj and Guhle and down without Harris

Finally look at expected GF% similar story with lower % across board. Harris leads at 45.91%, Then Guhle at 42.09% and Xhekaj at 38.08%.

Kovacevic's numbers are similar to Harris as Harris/ Kovacevic were paired together quite a bit

Harris is also the oldest of the three. We shall see how they progress but right now Harris is significantly better than Xhekaj

 

[Rapala]

I would not sleep on Harris. Of the 3 young LD long term I think Ghule is the best, Harris is probably better than Xhekaj. Xhekaj brings something the others don't with his physicality but Harris is and will be the better D-man. If ever Hutson pans out and you move one of these it may well be Harris but don't be quick to dump him. Statistically last year he was probably the best of the 3 and it was not all against 3rd and 4th lines.

If you look at the time each played 5-5 with Suzuki , that should be a good proxy for time against other teams top lines. Harris played 325 mins with Suzuki, Ghule 260 mins and Xhekaj 185 mins. While Harris led the other 2 were injured as a % of total 5-5 TOI, Ghule played 40% of his time with Suzuki, Harris 34% and Xhekaj 24% of his time.

IF you look at CF% while with Suzuki, Harris is best at 48%, Xhekaj next at 46% and Ghule at 43.82. Interesting that Suzuki's CF% improved away from Xhekaj and Guhle but went down when Harris was not on ice with him

If you look at GF% with Suzuki, Harris is at 57.14%, Xhekaj at 46.67 and Ghule at 44.44. Again Suzuki's GF% goes up without Xhekaj and Guhle and down without Harris

Finally look at expected GF% similar story with lower % across board. Harris leads at 45.91%, Then Guhle at 42.09% and Xhekaj at 38.08%.

Kovacevic's numbers are similar to Harris as Harris/ Kovacevic were paired together quite a bit

Harris is also the oldest of the three. We shall see how they progress but right now Harris is significantly better than Xhekaj

I love a lot of what Harris does but what rate of production will it take and can we even afford to keep Xhekaj out of the lineup?

 

[Tyson]

I love a lot of what Harris does but what rate of production will it take and can we even afford to keep Xhekaj out of the lineup?

Xhekaj has developed a Reputation as a tough kid pretty quickly. It's still part of hockey.

 

[CDN24]

I love a lot of what Harris does but what rate of production will it take and can we even afford to keep Xhekaj out of the lineup?

Full disclosure , I love what Xhekaj brings to the team and he has been able to produce a bit offensively- that will have to continue. He can not and will not make the lineup regularly when we are contending just because of his physicality. There is a reason why there were so few defensemen as enforcers back in the day when everyone employed an enforcer or 2. A contending team can't afford to have 1 of 6 d men sitting in the box for 5 mins at a time. Can he become someone like Larry Robinson or Chara who was feared enough that they really didn't have to fight?

To stick as a D-man he will have to be as good at hockey without the physicality as the guy he is beating out of a roster spot and he will have to limit the fighting majors. He can't take on all comers.

That said now, before we are contending is the time to cement that reputation so he does not need to fight much later.

 

[Vachon23]

Full disclosure , I love what Xhekaj brings to the team and he has been able to produce a bit offensively- that will have to continue. He can not and will not make the lineup regularly when we are contending just because of his physicality. There is a reason why there were so few defensemen as enforcers back in the day when everyone employed an enforcer or 2. A contending team can't afford to have 1 of 6 d men sitting in the box for 5 mins at a time. Can he become someone like Larry Robinson or Chara who was feared enough that they really didn't have to fight?

To stick as a D-man he will have to be as good at hockey without the physicality as the guy he is beating out of a roster spot and he will have to limit the fighting majors. He can't take on all comers.

That said now, before we are contending is the time to cement that reputation so he does not need to fight much later.

It’s not only the fighting that make Xhekaj more important than Harris in the future on a bottom pair. It’s the physicality and the aggressive/mean part of his game that is so important during the playoff that make him more valuable

 

[Rapala]

Xhekaj has developed a Reputation as a tough kid pretty quickly. It's still part of hockey.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm also far from believing Arber Xhekaj is even close to his potential on both sides of the puck. With Harris I'm not sure how much upside is left?

 

[Tyson]

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm also far from believing Arber Xhekaj is even close to his potential on both side of the puck. With Harris I'm not sure how much upside there is left?

Great point on Xhekaj, undrafted twice into the OHL, passed over twice in the NHL draft and improves enough to make an NHL team. He has way more upside than many think.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Full disclosure , I love what Xhekaj brings to the team and he has been able to produce a bit offensively- that will have to continue. He can not and will not make the lineup regularly when we are contending just because of his physicality. There is a reason why there were so few defensemen as enforcers back in the day when everyone employed an enforcer or 2. A contending team can't afford to have 1 of 6 d men sitting in the box for 5 mins at a time. Can he become someone like Larry Robinson or Chara who was feared enough that they really didn't have to fight?

To stick as a D-man he will have to be as good at hockey without the physicality as the guy he is beating out of a roster spot and he will have to limit the fighting majors. He can't take on all comers.

That said now, before we are contending is the time to cement that reputation so he does not need to fight much later.

Xhekaj has above average hands and sees the ice really well. You are pigeonholing him into a stereotype that is not reflective of his actual skillset. Also, using CF% as evidence that Harris was better than Guhle only proves how little these stats mean when used by the layman.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm also far from believing Arber Xhekaj is even close to his potential on both sides of the puck. With Harris I'm not sure how much upside is left?

I think Harris passes the eye test and presents as a Gorges type/level defenceman, with more mobility and offensive ability and upside. Nothing wrong with that. With this team’s plethora of high end defensive prospects, Harris may never be a top 4 defenceman on this team. Nevertheless, he still provides quality depth and good value as a potential trading chip.

 

[Zilo44]

I think Harris passes the eye test and presents as a Gorges type/level defenceman, with more mobility and offensive ability and upside. Nothing wrong with that. With this team’s plethora of high end defensive prospects, Harris may never be a top 4 defenceman on this team. Nevertheless, he still provides quality depth and good value as a potential trading chip.

Or he becomes a top 4 D and makes another prospect expendable. You don’t waste good assets just because you don’t see a spot

 

[BLONG7]

I think Harris passes the eye test and presents as a Gorges type/level defenceman, with more mobility and offensive ability and upside. Nothing wrong with that. With this team’s plethora of high end defensive prospects, Harris may never be a top 4 defenceman on this team. Nevertheless, he still provides quality depth and good value as a potential trading chip.

I really like Harris, low end type of maintenance guy, just quietly does his thing......and very reasonable cap hit.
I hope they don't deal him but man, we have a ton of kids coming on the back end...

 

[CDN24]

Xhekaj has above average hands and sees the ice really well. You are pigeonholing him into a stereotype that is not reflective of his actual skillset. Also, using CF% as evidence that Harris was better than Guhle only proves how little these stats mean when used by the layman.

Actually said he was better than Xhekej, clearly said Ghule would be best. No one stat is going to give it all too you, Personally not a fan of CF. I am a big fan of GF% in like situations. In this case while playing with Suzuki. The only D-man that came close to Harris/Kovac pair was Matheson.

No need to trade a young d-man to early, I'm old enough remember the batch of great d-men we had in early 90's Brisebois/Schneider/Desjardins/Odelein/etc.

In 93-94 Odelein had 11G-29A-40pts and Desjardins had 12G-23A-35pts, Brisebois had 23 pts in 50 games- lots of depth on that right side so we included Desjardins in the Leclair Recchi trade keeping the Unicorn in Odelein. That was by far Odie's best year and Desjardins went on to lead philly's d for 10 plus years.

 

[ReHabs]

I think Harris passes the eye test and presents as a Gorges type/level defenceman, with more mobility and offensive ability and upside. Nothing wrong with that. With this team’s plethora of high end defensive prospects, Harris may never be a top 4 defenceman on this team. Nevertheless, he still provides quality depth and good value as a potential trading chip.

Gorgeous Gorges was a tough-as-nails minute eater. That phenotype no longer exists in the NHL -- in the modern NHL you need to skate well and have a deft stick, something Gorges never had. Otherwise, Harris is pretty-much a worthy NHL player and therefore a worthy trade-chip. I think Kovacevic has more trade-value given his lower cap hit but that could all change by mid-season this year.

Given the confluence of talents and distinguishing qualities of these players, Harris is playing for his Habs career this year and I wish him well.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I really like Harris, low end type of maintenance guy, just quietly does his thing......and very reasonable cap hit.
I hope they don't deal him but man, we have a ton of kids coming on the back end...

Its a nice problem to have. Hughes is no fool. He fully understands Harris’ value. And with most of those glittering defensive prospects at least one year away there is no urgency to move Harris. Who knows, as one poster opined, Harris may bloom this year making one of the other defensive prospects expendable or increasing his own marketability. As I said, its a nice ‘problem’ to have.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Gorgeous Gorges was a tough-as-nails minute eater. That phenotype no longer exists in the NHL -- in the modern NHL you need to skate well and have a deft stick, something Gorges never had. Otherwise, Harris is pretty-much a worthy NHL player and therefore a worthy trade-chip. I think Kovacevic has more trade-value given his lower cap hit but that could all change by mid-season this year.

Given the confluence of talents and distinguishing qualities of these players, Harris is playing for his Habs career this year and I wish him well.

Well said. But in a re-building year it could be said, that with a few obvious exceptions, all roster players are playing for their Habs’ career. I would challenge your assertion that Kovacevic has more trade value that Harris at this point. In Kovacevic, you have a player who is largely what he will be. Harris is still a work in progress and has displayed demonstrative skills that project him to having a much more impactful NHL career.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Or he becomes a top 4 D and makes another prospect expendable. You don’t waste good assets just because you don’t see a spot

It depends on your definition of ‘waste.’ If Harris is part of a package that secures a player that materially upgrades the team, then you include him.

 

[tnq]

I think Harris passes the eye test and presents as a Gorges type/level defenceman, with more mobility and offensive ability and upside. Nothing wrong with that. With this team’s plethora of high end defensive prospects, Harris may never be a top 4 defenceman on this team. Nevertheless, he still provides quality depth and good value as a potential trading chip.

Harris can be 5 or 6 defender who can be in top 4 if needed

 

[ReHabs]

Well said. But in a re/building year it could be said, that with a few obvious exceptions, all roster players are playing for their Habs’ career. I would challenge your assertion that Kovacevic has more trade value that Harris at this point. In Kovacevic you have a player who is largely what he will be. Harris is still a work in progress and has displayed demonstrative skills that project him to having a much more impactful NHL career.

Kovacevic was pretty much a rookie last year too, don't forget. The only reason I argue he has more trade value is his lower-cap hit.

 

[Rapala]

It depends on your definition of ‘waste.’ If Harris is part of a package that secures a player that materially upgrades the team, then you include him.

Yes Sir,
Harris is aready a card carrying member of our "War Chest" We need to annoint others.

 

[Mrb1p]

Harris can be 5 or 6 defender who can be in top 4 if needed

Harris is just like Kulak, a vanilla stop gap. You cant have him in the top 4 and expect to come out on top.

 

[Mrb1p]

Great point on Xhekaj, undrafted twice into the OHL, passed over twice in the NHL draft and improves enough to make an NHL team. He has way more upside than many think.

The thing with Xhekaj is that at some point the slot machine is gonna stop giving us gains, but when? Could be right now, that could be Xhekaj. Could be he goes all the way to a top pair D. Its very tough to evaluate him.because hes very raw and has a good base but the runway is not infinite.

 

[Tyson]

The thing with Xhekaj is that at some point the slot machine is gonna stop giving us gains, but when? Could be right now, that could be Xhekaj. Could be he goes all the way to a top pair D. Its very tough to evaluate him.because hes very raw and has a good base but the runway is not infinite.

If he becomes a solid bottom pairing D I will be ok with that. The intangibles that he brings are important. A very rugged player who can play.

 

[Mrb1p]

If he becomes a solid bottom pairing D I will be ok with that. The intangibles that he brings are important. A very rugged player who can play.

I agree, anything he gives the Habs beyond this point is a gigantic win.

 

[Tyson]

I agree, anything he gives the Habs beyond this point is a gigantic win.

And he is a huge fan favorite. I tried to buy a Xhekaj jersey last year for my granddaughter but it was sold out. Got her a Slafkovsky jersey instead.

 

[Rapala]

And he is a huge fan favorite. I tried to buy a Xhekaj jersey last year for my granddaughter but it was sold out. Got her a Slafkovsky jersey instead.

Nice keep those next generations in the right stable.