Jonathan Quick - 1 win in past 9 starts

[Nasti]

Sigh. Habs fans constantly using the team excuse for Price is getting old. As if they'd be a lottery team without him. There are plenty of examples of Price failing miserably in the playoffs all on his own. Montreal has always had the Bruins' number, so beating them isn't exactly earth shattering.

 

[JFG]

Sigh. Habs fans constantly using the team excuse for Price is getting old. As if they'd be a lottery team without him. There are plenty of examples of Price failing miserably in the playoffs all on his own. Montreal has always had the Bruins' number, so beating them isn't exactly earth shattering.

They use it for Subban as well

Would rather have Quick than Price for the Hawks.

 

[Nasti]

They use it for Subban aswell

Would rather have Quick than Price for the Hawks.

I almost included Subban as well. Price vs Quick, Subban vs Doughty. The argument is always the same.

 

[CanadienShark]

The Bruins had the president trophy. Dont get bent out of shape because I am saying the truth. The Bruins were a better team last year and they got out played. Rask is a choker. He choked away a 3-0 series lead, a stanley cup, and has been lit up by the Habs int he regular season, and playoffs.

I dont think a team loss is a goalie choking, but when the goalie is a big part of that team loss, yea, that is a goalie choking.

My views are not hive mind, its a fact the Bruins were better than Montreal, yes Montreal have their number, but one had the Presidents trophy, one did not.

I was pulling for Montreal the entire series, so there is no bias here.

Going into the matchup, Montreal looked like the ONLY team in the east that could beat Boston, and they did. I wouldn't call that "inferior" as people tend to erroneously assume that means "way worse." Even I did for a second, which is why I said anything. Yes, Boston was the better team on paper, but I think that everyone has to realize that Montreal had a team on paper that could compete, and just plain had their number. Rask didn't choke. The Bruins lost to the better team that series. Choking ≠ losing. And quite honestly, a Presidents Trophy doesn't mean a ton. It's a good rough indication of the team's makeup, but doesn't account for injuries that superior teams may have suffered throughout the season, and vice versa.

 

[CanadienShark]

They use it for Subban as well

Would rather have Quick than Price for the Hawks.

I almost included Subban as well. Price vs Quick, Subban vs Doughty. The argument is always the same.

Two very bitter sounding guys you are.

It doesn't take half a brain to realize how crap our RHD depth is WITH Subban. Without, we wouldn't be a lottery team, but I don't think we'd be a playoff team.

With Subban: Subban, Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?
Without Subban: Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?, Weaver?

So now you realize how terrible we'd be without Subban? And without Price, it's obvious. Price is everything to this team - more important to the team than Subban, and I'm Subban's biggest fan. A few historical examples ≠ current reality.

 

[Zal]

This ^
Quick is overrated. He's a product of the D infront of him.

Alright.

 

[Daximus]

Nah, he isnt the best among active goalies in the NHL, Price and Rinne both still play in the NHL. Rask looked pretty ****** until Chara and Krejci came back. Price plays with a team that is no where near as good defensively as the Bruins. Rinne is a Hart caliber goalie. BTW, Chad Johnson put u up good numbers in front of that Boston team, that is enough proof for me that Rask has his stats helped out with the team in front of him more than you would care to admit.

Price is elite but even Brobovsky has put up better Regular Season numbers over the last 3 seasons and when you add on GPS (goalie point shares) his numbers are far greater than Prices. Sorry but the math says otherwise. If it came down to it I'd rather have Rask on my team than any other goalie out there for a regular season game.

 

[TT1]

Sigh. Habs fans constantly using the team excuse for Price is getting old. As if they'd be a lottery team without him. There are plenty of examples of Price failing miserably in the playoffs all on his own. Montreal has always had the Bruins' number, so beating them isn't exactly earth shattering.

you should check our d-cores advanced stats, the only positive players weve had this season are Markov and Subban.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

Yea I agree, he needs to show up in the regular season if he wants to be a top goalie in the league.

I'd rather him show up big time in the playoffs when it matters over the regular season, but maybe that's just me.

It's the same thing every year during the regular season with Quick "system goalie" "plays behind a good defense" fact of the matter is, arguably every top goalie in the league plays behind a good defense.

Quick has had his struggles this year but getting stuck behind a defense consisting of guys like Jeff Schultz, Jaime McBain, and Matt Greene would make any goalie look bad.

Still isn't another goalie in the league that I would take over him. Especially come playoff time.

 

[Jonteeh]

When Price play great it's because he did good.. When Quick play great it's because of the team infront of him..

Montreal fan logic.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

The Kings are grooming him for a trade to the Oilers

 

[SladeWilson23]

Stats say little to nothing about a player like Quick. Anyone with half a brain that's watched the last three seasons of Kings playoff hockey should be able to see that. He's a big reason that they've won 2 SC's in the past 3 seasons.

In the end, hockey is a team sport and is won with all the players on the ice contributing. Otherwise 'elite' goalies like Rask and Price would have already won a cup.

This.

Halak's SV% makes it look like he's having just an average year. Isles fans would tell you different.

Brodeur's SV% is at best "above average". Are we really gonna call Brodeur just an above average goalie?

SV% is extremely flawed when you look at it without any context.

 

[JFG]

Two very bitter sounding guys you are.

It doesn't take half a brain to realize how crap our RHD depth is WITH Subban. Without, we wouldn't be a lottery team, but I don't think we'd be a playoff team.

With Subban: Subban, Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?
Without Subban: Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?, Weaver?

So now you realize how terrible we'd be without Subban? And without Price, it's obvious. Price is everything to this team - more important to the team than Subban, and I'm Subban's biggest fan. A few historical examples ≠ current reality.

Bitter, what would I be bitter about? I just think this HF schtick of downgrading the majority of your team to elevate a certain player is plain bs.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

This.

Halak's SV% makes it look like he's having just an average year. Isles fans would tell you different.

Brodeur's SV% is at best "above average". Are we really gonna call Brodeur just an above average goalie?

SV% is extremely flawed when you look at it without any context.

Apparently to most posters here it's easier to stat watch then actually watch the games. If some of the posters in this thread actually watched Kings games, they would realize that 95% of the goals against Quick are not his fault.

 

[CanadienShark]

Bitter, what would I be bitter about? I just think this HF schtick of downgrading the majority of your team to elevate a certain player is plain bs.

Well I spelled it out for you as to WHY that's the case, so that's all that needs to be said.

 

[eklunds source]

Apparently to most posters here it's easier to stat watch then actually watch the games. If some of the posters in this thread actually watched Kings games, they would realize that 95% of the goals against Quick are not his fault.

edit: Jonathan Quick has allowed 96 goals this year. What you're saying is that "Quick has been at fault for 5 goals in 39 starts; if it wasn't for poor defense in front of him, he would have at least 34 shutouts by now."



From 12 days ago:

Laughing Off Jonathan Quick's Struggle

Jonathan Quick is playing the worst hockey of his career.

It's not to say that there haven't been breakdowns—having personally tracked LA's scoring chances this season, using the "home plate" definition—I can tell you, both visually and statistically, that team defense isn't as strong as it was last season. However, the team doesn't deserve the lionshare of the blame for Quick's decline, as they're definitely playing better than earlier in the year.

However, goaltending statistics by nature are subject to wild swings. Is Quick really that much more inconsistent than respected peers in a moving average of 15 games? To some degree, yes. All goalies are inconsistent, but Quick is wilder than some of the best in the league. Every goalie has moments when he can't stop a beachball. Quick just happens to have more of them than the aforementioned [Price, Rinne].

Anyway, there's zero evidence that Quick is dealing with any type of ailment besides his own inconsistency. And an unlucky but sometimes not-so-sharp PK. And strange-but-true deflections. And a depleted blueline.

That's from less than 2 weeks ago on a reputable LA Kings fan blog, from a blogger who watches and tracks every scoring chance for/against the LA Kings. Keep watching the games, you're clearly on the right track with fault assignment for goals against..

 

[Cult of Hynes]

When Price play great it's because he did good.. When Quick play great it's because of the team infront of him..

Montreal fan logic.

While I agree the logic is flawed, Price doesnt have as good of a team in front of him that Quick does.

 

[rajuabju]

I'd rather him show up big time in the playoffs when it matters over the regular season, but maybe that's just me.

It's the same thing every year during the regular season with Quick "system goalie" "plays behind a good defense" fact of the matter is, arguably every top goalie in the league plays behind a good defense.

Quick has had his struggles this year but getting stuck behind a defense consisting of guys like Jeff Schultz, Jaime McBain, and Matt Greene would make any goalie look bad.

Still isn't another goalie in the league that I would take over him. Especially come playoff time.

Basically, this. The Kings 2nd D pair that helped win them a championship last year (Voynov-Mitchell) was removed. Our 3rd pair of Martinez/Greene basically had to become our 2nd pair. And our 3rd pair has been scrubs like Schultz/McBain (this was an actual pairing for a few games), or a rookie like McNabb who of course will have his ups and downs. Not to mention Regehr missing a number of games.

Kings went from having arguably one of the top 3 defenses in the league to average at best. And that shows in every statistical category from our GAA to PK% to whatever else you want to use to measure.

With Regehr back and McNabb gaining more experience, it helps. But I'm not at all convinced this is a D core that is going to withstand the test of the playoffs. Hoping DL makes some move in the next month. I think he will.

 

[Nasti]

Two very bitter sounding guys you are.

It doesn't take half a brain to realize how crap our RHD depth is WITH Subban. Without, we wouldn't be a lottery team, but I don't think we'd be a playoff team.

With Subban: Subban, Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?
Without Subban: Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?, Weaver?

So now you realize how terrible we'd be without Subban? And without Price, it's obvious. Price is everything to this team - more important to the team than Subban, and I'm Subban's biggest fan. A few historical examples ≠ current reality.

Why should I be bitter? My team just won two of the last thee cups. I'm just pointing out that it gets old when Habs fans treat Price like it's always the team's fault yet they treat Quick like it's always his fault.

 

[CanadienShark]

Why should I be bitter? My team just won two of the last thee cups. I'm just pointing out that it gets old when Habs fans treat Price like it's always the team's fault yet they treat Quick like it's always his fault.

Well I ought to be the bitter one then, since I'm also a Sharks fan.

But you sound bitter by how you worded it. And Price has basically never wavered this season, so yes, it's generally the team's fault. If you can't win with arguably the best goalie in the world who's like a 3rd d-man, yes, it's often the team's fault. And no, the season the Kings are having isn't the fault of Quick by any stretch. You're making vast, sweeping generalizations here about all Habs fans, when it's really only reflective of a visible minority of Habs fans.

 

[Blitzkrug]

He's probably saving it for the playoffs.

Only problem is, L.A looks to be in dire straits in terms of getting there.

They're a lot more than a Carter/Gaborik acquisition away from being a force unlike in the last couple years. I imagine Lombardi will attempt to bring something in near the deadline. The cap obviously will be a massive roadblock in that.

 

[Daishi]

Wasn't there some chart on HFBoards recently for goalies sv% that took into account shot quality on even strength? Rask was by far the best goalie, and second best was actually Elliott.

In this thread there's few posters with such hate agendas that it's not really a worthwhile discussion. I'll just bow out by saying I don't believe in the elite goalie stereotype at all, and will just say that Rask, Price, Rinne and Hank are all really good goalies, and that Quick and Crawford are good too, and the reason they're double cup winners is because of their team, not because they're in any way shape or form better than other good NHL goaltenders. For clarity's sake, Rask wouldn't have won the Vezina in Winnipeg either, and Brodeur wouldn't be a future hall of famer if he played for garbage franchises instead of NJ.

 

[sandysan]

Sigh. Habs fans constantly using the team excuse for Price is getting old. As if they'd be a lottery team without him. There are plenty of examples of Price failing miserably in the playoffs all on his own. Montreal has always had the Bruins' number, so beating them isn't exactly earth shattering.

its not the price excuse that is getting old, its the habs D, you know with spring chickens on it like sergei gonchar and markov.

we have the oldest D in the league, many of our younger guys are dead slow and all of them are tissue soft. We ROUTINELY dont show up in the first and play 20 minutes or so a game relying on price to save us night in, night out.

What price does in the playoffs remains to be seen, but stop the lies that he plays behind a good defense. our defense isnt good and hasn't been for a REALLY long time.
and of all of the problems the habs have, price isnt on that list.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Two very bitter sounding guys you are.

It doesn't take half a brain to realize how crap our RHD depth is WITH Subban. Without, we wouldn't be a lottery team, but I don't think we'd be a playoff team.

With Subban: Subban, Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?
Without Subban: Gonchar (very old and off side), Gilbert?, Weaver?

So now you realize how terrible we'd be without Subban? And without Price, it's obvious. Price is everything to this team - more important to the team than Subban, and I'm Subban's biggest fan. A few historical examples ≠ current reality.

But the assumption here is that the Canadiens are a sub-par team outside of Price, and I don't think that's true. What you're showing is more than teams don't have good second pairings anymore. The depth is spread out across the league, and even very good teams are really mediocre on defense. Look at Detroit, who are doing really well this season based on a ton of different metrics. Their second pairing is a garbage fire. (A lot of the time, their first pairing is...) But the truth is that teams don't have quality defensive depth these days, nor do they especially need it.

The way the league is going, you have 1-2 great guys and then a lot of filler. There just aren't enough quality defensemen around.

 

[MAHJ71]

If they didn't have Quick they would be a lot further out of the playoff picture than they are now..