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Prospect Info: Jonathan Lekkerimaki, #15 Overall, 2022 NHL Draft

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sting101 said:
I'm a very pro player poster.
It is not a matter of "hating" on a player to be critical when warranted

The issue with Lekkerimaki was his compete and tempo. He's incredibly skilled. Top10 worthy skilled hence the high ranking but he's smallish and has shown a tendency to stop battling or skating when engaged which isn't something that gets ironed out in a gym by getting stronger and its not a great cross over trait for adapting to smaller ice and much less time and space.
It's similar to Sven Bartschi who had all the skill in the world but lacked a NHL high level motor. There's a big gamble that you can change a trait that is mostly innate. I always think of a guy like Brendan Gallagher that became so valuable because of his motor

Now obviously PA was extremely excited to get JL and has his reasons for choosing him. Nobody is suggesting from their sofas that they did more scouting and diligence than our amateur scouting staff. My issue has been that small skilled wingers with compete issues no matter how skilled are not that valuable and impactful. A 15 OA has to have impact and value.

For the record none of this is hindsight I said in the draft thread what my reservations were with JL and had Kulich Chesley Yurov Ohgren all ahead of Lekkerimaki. Bischel and Pickering were high risk high reward and I would have felt those were better gambles given the payout if they hit but had JL higher because of IQ concerns which is a huge red flag for my player evaluation process

Anyway I am just a fan that wants our drafts to workout and we don't have enough high picks to flub them. I struggle with the process of evaluation is all. Not saying mine is better.

That is where the frustration and criticism comes from I obviously want him to be a star
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I was actually kind of shocked when PA was captured in the behind the scenes video essentially saying that at some point everybody competes. I mean I get what he's trying to say, but it's such a big departure from the Canucks looking for high character high motor guys. Obviously, we're not talking about lazy player but I agree with you that especially for top 6 or bust type players, the drive and willingness to put in the work is what separates "the difference makers" from the average 2nd line player who is out of the league before they are 30. There are so many players with NHL skill and shot who never make it because they aren't able to create the time and space to use their skill and shot.

At the end of the day, the Canucks had him 7th on their list. So this is as much of a home-run pick at 15 as it gets.
 
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F A N said:
I was actually kind of shocked when PA was captured in the behind the scenes video essentially saying that at some point everybody competes. I mean I get what he's trying to say, but it's such a big departure from the Canucks looking for high character high motor guys. Obviously, we're not talking about lazy player but I agree with you that especially for top 6 or bust type players, the drive and willingness to put in the work is what separates "the difference makers" from the average 2nd line player who is out of the league before they are 30. There are so many players with NHL skill and shot who never make it because they aren't able to create the time and space to use their skill and shot.

At the end of the day, the Canucks had him 7th on their list. So this is as much of a home-run pick at 15 as it gets.
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Beyond creating time and space for themselves on the ice, when a player doesn't possess the overwhelming natural size/skill/etc. to fit in when they're still adapting to a higher level of play, often the only way they can survive and carve out playing time is with that built in drive and work ethic.

It's so common to see players who are clearly in over their heads, but make themselves useful through sheer desire and willingness to work, get rewarded by coaches with consistent trust and playing time, which allows them to get enough reps in to eventually establish themselves once their head hopefully catches up and their talent is able to arrive on the scene a few weeks/months later.

I know he's a tired extreme example, but this is basically the only reason Alex Burrows had an NHL career at all. Guy was a smart and NHL-talented player, but he also lacked the overwhelming skill or size to fit in right away while he was still getting used to the level of play. He just plain worked so f***ing hard and did so many things that make a coach happy that he was able to stick around until his hands and body got up to speed. I'd argue that Ryan Kesler was a similar case his first season.

People often use the "top-6 or bust" or "AAAA" thing to describe players who supposedly don't have the size or skillset to play lower in the lineup, but I think it's just as often simply a mindset issue where the player isn't driven to make the coach like them enough to find a role for them until the truck shows up five months later with their hands and feet on it.
 
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RobertKron said:
Beyond creating time and space for themselves on the ice, when a player doesn't possess the overwhelming natural size/skill/etc. to fit in when they're still adapting to a higher level of play, often the only way they can survive and carve out playing time is with that built in drive and work ethic.

It's so common to see players who are clearly in over their heads, but make themselves useful through sheer desire and willingness to work, get rewarded by coaches with consistent trust and playing time, which allows them to get enough reps in to eventually establish themselves once their head hopefully catches up and their talent is able to arrive on the scene a few weeks/months later.

I know he's a tired extreme example, but this is basically the only reason Alex Burrows had an NHL career at all. Guy was a smart and NHL-talented player, but he also lacked the overwhelming skill or size to fit in right away while he was still getting used to the level of play. He just plain worked so f***ing hard and did so many things that make a coach happy that he was able to stick around until his hands and body got up to speed. I'd argue that Ryan Kesler was a similar case his first season.

People often use the "top-6 or bust" or "AAAA" thing to describe players who supposedly don't have the size or skillset to play lower in the lineup, but I think it's just as often simply a mindset issue where the player isn't driven to make the coach like them enough to find a role for them until the truck shows up five months later with their hands and feet on it.
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We rarely agree but completely agree with this and don't have much to add. I get that Allvin needs to say something in front of the cameras but if he truly believes that basically everyone competes so don't worry about a player's compete level... how is that going to impact the team long term? Of course, every player is different and compete level can vary with time, but compete level is rarely something that gets developed.

With Lekkeramaki though, some have expressed that we should have drafted Ostlund or Ohgren but I disagree. Lekkeramaki clearly outperformed the two in his draft eligible year. There's still a long runway.
 
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Just for fun

Noah Östlund - 19GP 2G 9A 11PTS (1G 3A 4PTS on PP), 30 SOG (5PP shots on 9ATT) on 55 attempts (ATT), +3 rating (+8/-5), 59.00 CF% (Corsi%) + 58.12 FF% (Fenwick%), in 15:30TOI/GP (12:25 ES/3:02 PP).

Liam Öhgren - 19GP 4G 2A 6PTS (0PTS on PP), 32 SOG (2PP shots on 3ATT) on 60ATT, +4 rating (+8/-4), 57.01 CF% + 56.32 FF%, in 12:18TOI/GP (11:14 ES/0:58 PP).

Jonathan Lekkerimäki - 18GP 1G 4A 5PTS (2A 2PTS on PP), 27 SOG (6PP shots on 11ATT) on 56ATT, even rating (+6/-6), 52.9 CF% + 52.56 FF%, in 12:10TOI/GP (9:59 ES/2:11 PP).

*Note* - Östlund plays on the 1st PP unit, and Lekkerimäki on the 2nd.
 
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The Iron Goalie said:
Just for fun

Noah Östlund - 19GP 2G 9A 11PTS (1G 3A 4PTS on PP), 30 SOG (5PP shots on 9ATT) on 55 attempts (ATT), +3 rating (+8/-5), 59.00 CF% (Corsi%) + 58.12 FF% (Fenwick%), in 15:30TOI/GP (12:25 ES/3:02 PP).

Liam Öhgren - 19GP 4G 2A 6PTS (0PTS on PP), 32 SOG (2PP shots on 3ATT) on 60ATT, +4 rating (+8/-4), 57.01 CF% + 56.32 FF%, in 12:18TOI/GP (11:14 ES/0:58 PP).

Jonathan Lekkerimäki - 18GP 1G 4A 5PTS (2A 2PTS on PP), 27 SOG (6PP shots on 11ATT) on 56ATT, even rating (+6/-6), 52.9 CF% + 52.56 FF%, in 12:10TOI/GP (9:59 ES/2:11 PP).

*Note* - Östlund plays on the 1st PP unit, and Lekkerimäki on the 2nd.
Click to expand...
So they all suck this year lol
 
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The Iron Goalie said:
Just for fun

Noah Östlund - 19GP 2G 9A 11PTS (1G 3A 4PTS on PP), 30 SOG (5PP shots on 9ATT) on 55 attempts (ATT), +3 rating (+8/-5), 59.00 CF% (Corsi%) + 58.12 FF% (Fenwick%), in 15:30TOI/GP (12:25 ES/3:02 PP).

Liam Öhgren - 19GP 4G 2A 6PTS (0PTS on PP), 32 SOG (2PP shots on 3ATT) on 60ATT, +4 rating (+8/-4), 57.01 CF% + 56.32 FF%, in 12:18TOI/GP (11:14 ES/0:58 PP).

Jonathan Lekkerimäki - 18GP 1G 4A 5PTS (2A 2PTS on PP), 27 SOG (6PP shots on 11ATT) on 56ATT, even rating (+6/-6), 52.9 CF% + 52.56 FF%, in 12:10TOI/GP (9:59 ES/2:11 PP).

*Note* - Östlund plays on the 1st PP unit, and Lekkerimäki on the 2nd.
Click to expand...
The numbers you posted suggest otherwise unless I’m misinterpreting
 
The ony thing I noticed is for a shooter his shooting percent is really low. If it was at 15% he would have 3/4 goals and be at .5PPG and no one would be calling him a bust....

Progression is never linear
 
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Gstank said:
The ony thing I noticed is for a shooter his shooting percent is really low. If it was at 15% he would have 3/4 goals and be at .5PPG and no one would be calling him a bust....

Progression is never linear
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Pst. Dont tell anyone, but...

Its not about his production.

Its about his lack of engagement so far.
 
This board is always complaining when the Canucks draft a motor guy over a skills guy… but when they go with skill over motor, we also complain.
But you don’t usually find a guy with both unless you have a higher pick, or there’s something else wrong with their game, like skating.
As for Lekk, I’m not jumping to conclusions yet.
 
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RobertKron said:
People often use the "top-6 or bust" or "AAAA" thing to describe players who supposedly don't have the size or skillset to play lower in the lineup, but I think it's just as often simply a mindset issue where the player isn't driven to make the coach like them enough to find a role for them until the truck shows up five months later with their hands and feet on it.
Click to expand...

A good story is Manny Malhotra's trajectory.

He was drafted 7OA, was expected to be an offensive player and then just adjusted and became the third line fixture we know and loved him for.

He talks about it in an interview and it has always stuck with me.
 
Taking a more positive turn, Lekkerimaki was better in the 2nd half last season. I previously mentioned Wahlstrom who was shockingly bad to start his draft +1 year but his trajectory turned out fine. Again, staying positive, it might not be the worst thing to light something under Lekkerimaki. At the time of the draft there were criticisms of his game that were fixable. Hopefully he comes to the realization that having the best shot release isn't enough to get him to the NHL or even succeed in Sweden.
 
Right handed winger, known for his release, puts up more goals than assists, new rookie GM's first pick with the Canucks. Classic.
 
I didn’t know that much about him pre-draft

The WJC showed he had a flat out terrible motor, was chasing the puck the entire time. But they said he had Covid so I didn’t make anything of it.

Now he still has a terrible motor?
That’s not good
 
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