Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin----Nothing burger edition.

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Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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From a pure numbers perspective, playing up till game 55 or so with a PPG center WAS a big deal. Bigger than the 16 PPP he got on an ineffective powerplay. He had 37 ES points last year, which is replacement level relative to his minutes and linemates but it's a large chunk of his totals regardless.

His ES production wasn't replacement level last season relative to his minutes and linemates. He played predominantly 2nd/3rd line minutes last year on Montreal's second or third best line. His ES P/60 comparables included Williams, RNH, Brown, Kadri, Ferland, Kotkaniemi, Miller, etc. His production might go down with fewer minutes at ES, but if Montreal just has below average PP instead of an atrocious on, his production should be pretty similar. And that's if Kotkaniemi plateaus.

The second point is exactly what I'm referring to. Drouin rode his way to a 50pt season largely off the back of Domi's insane streak in the first half. Somehow he's going to have the same ES numbers as last year with 3rd line minutes and linemates? Sorry I don't buy it mate.

Domi got lucky too (and benefited from Shaw).

No argument that Drouin sucks at ES. But by that virtue, his relative production isn't that hard to replicate, Domi or no.

The point is that his ES numbers were ok. Not great, but not bad. And they way Julien spreads minutes, its hard to think he'll be that much worse off in the 3rd line instead of the 2nd.

Unless the PP improves by alot, expect a dip in his season totals. A spot which he very well might not even hold a year from now, should Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Caufield come knocking.

Of those three, only Suzuki seems like he'd take Drouin's role on the PP. And even that is not a given.
 

G0bias

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His ES production wasn't replacement level last season relative to his minutes and linemates. He played predominantly 2nd/3rd line minutes last year on Montreal's second or third best line. His ES P/60 comparables included Williams, RNH, Brown, Kadri, Ferland, Kotkaniemi, Miller, etc. His production might go down with fewer minutes at ES, but if Montreal just has below average PP instead of an atrocious on, his production should be pretty similar. And that's if Kotkaniemi plateaus.
He was 7th in EP/60 among forwards on the team. The fact Kotkaniemi's numbers compared, despite playing with Lehkonen and Armia while Drouin had Domi(and Shaw) for a big part of the season, is telling.
Domi got lucky too (and benefited from Shaw).
No argument that Drouin sucks at ES. But by that virtue, his relative production isn't that hard to replicate, Domi or no.
The point is that his ES numbers were ok. Not great, but not bad. And they way Julien spreads minutes, its hard to think he'll be that much worse off in the 3rd line instead of the 2nd.
It's also not just a matter of minutes but who he "worked" with. No disrespect to Kotkaniemi but doesn't seem to be any chemistry there, Domi seems like the only one on the team capable of carrying him up till a certain point. Not to mention it's not fair to expect KK to carry Drouin's bum ass in his 2nd season. I could be wrong but I have a hard time seeing that combination having much success, though I do like Weal instead of Armia.

Of those three, only Suzuki seems like he'd take Drouin's role on the PP. And even that is not a given.
PP has been mediocre to hot garbage with him in that role anyways. At this point, not like a change of strategy wouldn't be justified, if not expected. Either way, point here is should Drouin go cold (which he has), Clod could suddenly have alot more options.
 
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cphabs

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He was 7th in EP/60 among forwards on the team. The fact Kotkaniemi's numbers compared, despite playing with Lehkonen and Armia while Drouin had Domi(and Shaw) for a big part of the season, is telling.

It's also not just a matter of minutes but who he "worked" with. No disrespect to Kotkaniemi but doesn't seem to be any chemistry there, Domi seems like the only one on the team capable of carrying him up till a certain point. Not to mention unfair to expect KK to carry Drouin's bum ass in only his 2nd season.


PP has been mediocre to hot garbage with him in that role anyways. At this point, not like a change of strategy wouldn't be justified. Either way, point here is should Drouin go cold (which he has), Clod could suddenly have alot more options.
One of the better rationales I’ve read about our center woes. Just don’t call them centers! LMFAO!
 

euhchepas

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Jan 16, 2015
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Danault is the first line center of this team? Seems they don't learn from past mistakes, anyone remember DD?
that doesn't make any sense, DD was a unidimensional playmaker who couldn't score an empty net goal to save his life, Danault is a 5v5 monster but doesn't have the creativity to drive a line. You couldn't find 2 players more different, the only thing they have in common is their native language.
 

Fixxer

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Possibly the main issue with Drouin is that if he doesn't produce points, he isn't much helpful.
He is not a physical player. I did notice him skating back to help on defense but he needs to learn a LOT in his zone.
He's not a center, not great on face-offs.
I remember The Hockey News, pool edition, stating back then that Yzerman had drafted a puck wizard...
I believe he plays cautiously, on his off wing (RW) and he's out of it. We'll see how it turns out.
Julien said to leave him alone, which I believe isn't a bad idea.
 

BargainBinSpecial

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that doesn't make any sense, DD was a unidimensional playmaker who couldn't score an empty net goal to save his life, Danault is a 5v5 monster but doesn't have the creativity to drive a line. You couldn't find 2 players more different, the only thing they have in common is their native language.
Danault may be a more complete player than DD but he is not a number one C.
 

nhlfan9191

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Aug 4, 2010
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Possibly the main issue with Drouin is that if he doesn't produce points, he isn't much helpful.
He is not a physical player. I did notice him skating back to help on defense but he needs to learn a LOT in his zone.
He's not a center, not great on face-offs.
I remember The Hockey News, pool edition, stating back then that Yzerman had drafted a puck wizard...
I believe he plays cautiously, on his off wing (RW) and he's out of it. We'll see how it turns out.
Julien said to leave him alone, which I believe isn't a bad idea.

He got an entire year as center in 17/18 to goof off and learn some new defensive traits when we played him center full time. He regressed if anything in that area when he was given that opportunity which tells me his defensive game has an incredibly low chance of growing. The coaching staff is so unsure of him that they don’t trust him in a top 6 wing role, much less center which was sold on the fans only 2 years ago.
 
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salbutera

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IMO it’s a mistake to label any Habs forward line as 1, 2, 3, 4. The Habs are a 4-line team - only way they can compete is by generating offense across all four lines. It’ll become even more apparent I suspect when Poehling returns from AHL taking over 4C role from Thompson, and with the fourth line getting 12-14 min TOI on avg vs 8-10 these 4th lines typically get across the league.
 

NotProkofievian

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Nov 29, 2011
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IMO it’s a mistake to label any Habs forward line as 1, 2, 3, 4. The Habs are a 4-line team - only way they can compete is by generating offense across all four lines. It’ll become even more apparent I suspect when Poehling returns from AHL taking over 4C role from Thompson, and with the fourth line getting 12-14 min TOI on avg vs 8-10 these 4th lines typically get across the league.

And this is our biggest problem, IMO. We don't have one or two lines that it makes sense to give an extra 4 or 5 minutes to. The value of the other lines being ''fresh'' is higher than the value of those extra minutes. Rather than us having ''4 lines'' or a ''top 9'' it's more like we don't really have a top 3. It's really a mistake to call us a ''deep'' team, IMO.
 
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the valiant effort

settle down, bud
Apr 17, 2017
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And this is our biggest problem, IMO. We don't have one or two lines that it makes sense to give an extra 4 or 5 minutes to. The value of the other lines being ''fresh'' is higher than the value of those extra minutes. Rather than us having ''4 lines'' or a ''top 9'' it's more like we don't really have a top 3. It's really a mistake to call us a ''deep'' team, IMO.

It’s a straight up joke to call us a deep team...
 
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Fixxer

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You are not drouin himself are you?

When he played center he was the worst 1C in the league by a significant margin.

Jonathan drouin: not a center.

( hopefully not a hab much longer)
I've been critizing him too, don't worry. lol
I was just wondering what could be done in order for him to get better. Actually, I thought he was better on his first year. Maybe just more noticeable and having less pressure or early on it was the "honeymoon" period.
Well, offensively on the wing, he was better on year 2, but he had Domi to make plays with. Then he went dry!
There's so much pressure on him that even though he seems all calm etc, I'm sure he knows if things keep up, he'll eventually get the Brisebois treatment or so. Whatever the case may be, he needs to produce to be marketable. We'll see.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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I now realize why I missed Drouin's name. I was looking for him as part of the two forward lines and when I didn't see him there, I assumed he was out of the PP. I see that he's playing D on the first wave, should have caught that.

It's a weird way to write the PP anyways. Montreal (and most, if not all teams) use some variation of the 1-3-1 with 4 forwards and 1 D-man. Drouin is at the point if I recall correctly.
 

ahmedou

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Oct 7, 2017
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Pour mes amis québécois, voilà pour fermer la paranthèse... On se pogne le beigne? On ne met pas le nez dans l'traffic? Ben vas-y goûte à ta propre médecine à la montréalaise dorénavant. Tu récoltes ce que tu as sémer.
 
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Censored Toad

Most Records Shattered as GM of the Habs!
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JD could be the most watched player tonight.....let's hope he shows up, for real. Get dirty and go to the hard areas....

Thats right! Time to show us haters that you'll do what you need to elevate your own game, and your teammates.

Prove me wrong JD. Get'er done!
 
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PavelBrendl

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Jul 9, 2013
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If he's playing with Kotkaniemi and Armia, I think that's actually a pretty complete line. Even if Armia isn't a great finisher, he can cycle and drive offence on a line, especially with a smart C like Kotkaniemi. The two Finns also play a solid 2-way game. I think those two fill holes in Drouin's game and he can focus on what he does best, as a distributor and finisher.
 

1909

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If he's playing with Kotkaniemi and Armia, I think that's actually a pretty complete line. Even if Armia isn't a great finisher, he can cycle and drive offence on a line, especially with a smart C like Kotkaniemi. The two Finns also play a solid 2-way game. I think those two fill holes in Drouin's game and he can focus on what he does best, as a distributor and finisher.

I hope so.

Habs have four lines that can compete and score. Some other teams have better top-six, but weaker bottom six than Habs. IF CJ can match his lines properly on the road and at home, Habs gonna have success.
 

azcanuck

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55 points from a guy who offers little else as an all around game is not great. His potential is so much more but the mental aspect is as big part of hockey as anything.
He simply doesnt have it and will not have it.
I predict he is out of Montreal by the end of the year.
And I'm generally a pretty positive guy if you read my posts.
 

Runner77

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55 points from a guy who offers little else as an all around game is not great. His potential is so much more but the mental aspect is as big part of hockey as anything.
He simply doesnt have it and will not have it.
I predict he is out of Montreal by the end of the year.
And I'm generally a pretty positive guy if you read my posts.

Wow, that's a sobering statement coming from you. You are usually quite bullish about all things Habs.

For you to have soured on Drouin is quite telling. Sadly, we were all hoping for better but sometimes you just have to accept that the player can't be what he isn't no matter how many videos he watches in the summer or what he might say in a scrum.
 
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