Proposal: Johnson for Grigorenko+

[Avs44]

How the **** is Colorado at the cap, they hardball like crazy and don't have that many elite players and the ones they do make around 6 million.

EDIT Iggy makes over 5 million and they have 10 million tied up in Comeau/Colborne/Mitchell/Smith/Tyutin garbage, k that makes more sense now

Comeau, Colborne...those aren't garbage contracts or players. It's the over nine million tied up in Iginla, who's become pretty useless, and Stuart's buyout. The Avs will be rolling in cap space next off-season.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Doesn't make any sense. TJ deserves a lot more than Grigs. It doesn't work salary wise. And the Avs wont want to trade Grigorenko.

I know to most he's this Russian bust that everyone forgets exists. But to the Avalanche he's the smartest player on the team who gets the most out of the team's best players.

- Nathan Mackinnon was twice as productive while playing with Grigorenko than his second most productive linemate last year (per 60 with more than a few shifts together)
- Matt Duchene was just short of being twice as productive with Grigorenko than his second most productive linemate last year (per 60 with more than a few shifts together)
- EACH (yes every single one) of the 12 players Grigorenko spent most of his time with produced better with Grigorenko than away from him. That's every player he spent more than 90 minutes with.

Grigorenko doesn't return you a TJ or anything close to that. But those stats are to show that Grigorenko is valued a lot more by the Colorado Avalanche than he would be in a trade by any other team who likely see him as an average player. The Avs definitely want to see what they have in this guy as he enters the age when Russian players tend to explode. He was pretty much equal production wise last year as a 21 year old as Tarasenko and Kuznetsov were at that age.

 

[Ivan13]

Grigorenko won't return TJ, but this thread is a perfect example people know little if anything about Av players.

 

[93LEAFS]

I was exclusively talking about the postseason. We like to call Killorn our Robert Horry on the Bolts boards because he's just a different beast in the playoffs, he's turning into a power forward, puck possession beast, don't know how and why, but that's the reality. I didn't suggest they would expose Palat or Johnson over him, just that he's definitely worth his contract when you weight his postseason production in the equation. I'm of the opinion that Killorn is the Lightning draft expansion bait for Las Vegas, and it's apparently a consensus amongst Bolts fans. Let's face it, it's impossible to keep all these young good forwards cap-wise.

Pretty sure the hockey version of Robert Horry is called Claude Lemieux. Justin Williams could also apply.

 

[Curufinwe]

That "third liner" played 18-20 mintues in all situations, and scored 31 points in 43 games in the postseason the last 2 years. That "third liner" has the faculty to elevate his game to a top-line winger when it matters the most. Those type of "third liners" don't come cheap and I'm convinced Yzerman would get a nice amount of trade proposal if Alex Killorn was on the market. If he remains exposed, Las Vegas will highly consider him.

Killorn's really solid. If Tampa can't protect him, I expect Vegas to snap him up.

It's kind of a shame it's only one expansion team, because now we won't know in what order the players were drafted. It would be much more exciting to see two teams trading picks.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

How the **** is Colorado at the cap, they hardball like crazy and don't have that many elite players and the ones they do make around 6 million.

EDIT Iggy makes over 5 million and they have 10 million tied up in Comeau/Colborne/Mitchell/McLeod/Tyutin garbage, k that makes more sense now

10 million tied up in 5 players? how is that bad. especially since 4 of them are actually decent depth players for colorado.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I'd rather get Palat than Johnson to be honest, Avs have Duchy, MacK and Soderberg for top 6 centers and some decent center prospects. Palat would fill a bigger hole than Johnson.

Both of them would be too expensive for the Avs right now though.

 

[DFC]

All these guys (johnson, palat, kucherov, drouin) are likely untouchable until the cap forces us to move one of them.

 

[tucker3434]

Weird proposal. Avs don't have the cap space and won't be interested in adding significantly just to get another center. That's pretty much the only position we're set at. Trading two guys who figure to start on the wings in our top 6 is the opposite direction we should be heading.

How the **** is Colorado at the cap, they hardball like crazy and don't have that many elite players and the ones they do make around 6 million.

EDIT Iggy makes over 5 million and they have 10 million tied up in Comeau/Colborne/Mitchell/McLeod/Tyutin garbage, k that makes more sense now

$10m for 5 players, 2 of which are middle 6ers, isn't bad at all. Every team in the NHL pays $10m for a collection of 5 players of similar caliber. Stuart's $3.6m in dead salary and Iggy's $5.3m are why we're close to the cap. Both problems will be resolved next offseason.

 

[strictlyrandy]

All these guys (johnson, palat, kucherov, drouin) are likely untouchable until the cap forces us to move one of them.

Oh you mean like right now since they don't have the space to sign Kucherov?

Bishop either has to go or one of the other 3 will in order to keep Kucherov. TB is forced right now.

 

[DFC]

Oh you mean like right now since they don't have the space to sign Kucherov?

Bishop either has to go or one of the other 3 will in order to keep Kucherov. TB is forced right now.

Riiiiiight...

We probably need 1-2m to sign Kucherov, so obviously we should immediately deal away a significant piece of the core.

Most of these cap issues become problems NEXT year, not this year (and we have money coming off the books next year). We could trade Brian Boyle, Jason Garrison, or Brayden Coburn and have the money to sign Kucherov. Or a combination of lesser players.

 

[AvsGuy]

the plus would have to be immense. start with the avs 1st and then add

also johnson is easily gonna be protected.

Stamkos,Callahan,Filpulla, Johnson,Palat,Kucherov,Drouin.

Why would you do that

 

[Avs44]

Why would you do that

They both have NMC's.

 

[AvsGuy]

They both have NMC's.

That applies to expansion too? Lol I think I knew this but I didn't imagine there'd actually be a rule that stupid. Figured expansion draft was a good opportunity to shed some of those pesky NMCs around the league

 

[CobraAcesS]

Simply put, Avs would be stupid to trade Grigorenko right now.

 

[DFC]

So have both sides pretty much said "Nothing to see here?"

Doesn't even feel like we're arguing. Just basically describing our assets and situations. Too civil to be thread-worthy.

Good luck this year, Ave fans.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

That applies to expansion too? Lol I think I knew this but I didn't imagine there'd actually be a rule that stupid. Figured expansion draft was a good opportunity to shed some of those pesky NMCs around the league

whats the point of hving a no movement clause if you can be moved around the league?
gm's who hand them out use them as bargining chips. they should be upheld.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Riiiiiight...

We probably need 1-2m to sign Kucherov, so obviously we should immediately deal away a significant piece of the core.

Most of these cap issues become problems NEXT year, not this year (and we have money coming off the books next year). We could trade Brian Boyle, Jason Garrison, or Brayden Coburn and have the money to sign Kucherov. Or a combination of lesser players.

Well Kucherov isn't signed right now...they don't have space for him...right now. Someone has to go. With the other 3 due raises next year and still lose Bishop..next year just becomes worse. If Tampa Bay could trade Boyle, Garrison, or Coburn..they'd have done so by now.

Plain and simple, TB is already feeling the pressure.

 

[AvsGuy]

whats the point of hving a no movement clause if you can be moved around the league?
gm's who hand them out use them as bargining chips. they should be upheld.

I'd just wrongly assumed it was more of a no-trade clause than a strict no-movement clause. It seems odd to me that you're forced to protect players who have NMCs, makes the selections a bit redundant when you have to select certain players

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

I'd just wrongly assumed it was more of a no-trade clause than a strict no-movement clause. It seems odd to me that you're forced to protect players who have NMCs, makes the selections a bit redundant when you have to select certain players

yeah but if you didnt have to protect them then a team could technically protect everyone if they gave out nmc's. i think its the fairest way to do it. essentially a team that handed out a NMC told that player they would be protected and staying put with the team for x amount of years. I'm happy it applies to expansion.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Then it will probably work the other way: trade Duchene for Kucherov and get Grigorenko - Kucherov connection on the Avalanche.

 

[tjs*]

Then it will probably work the other way: trade Duchene for Kucherov and get Grigorenko - Kucherov connection on the Avalanche.

Hahaha no.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Hahaha no.

As far as I remember, Duchene is cheaper, than what Kucherov demands. And then Tampa can trade Johnson and sign Palat and Drouin.

As to Colorado, they get a younger and better player.

 

[DFC]

Well Kucherov isn't signed right now...they don't have space for him...right now. Someone has to go. With the other 3 due raises next year and still lose Bishop..next year just becomes worse. If Tampa Bay could trade Boyle, Garrison, or Coburn..they'd have done so by now.

Plain and simple, TB is already feeling the pressure.

...Um, no?

Boyle, in particular, would be an easy trade to make because he doesn't require expansion protection. The other two are quality defensemen. It's much more likely a case of Yzerman trying to get the best deal he can with Kucherov, which will then dictate which trade he needs to make. Yzerman himself has made comments to that effect.

It's not like TB has a bunch of untradeable assets and then Stamkos, Hedman and the Triplets. This is a pretty damn good team we're talking about. There are likely two contracts that can't be moved (Callahan and Filppula). After that, everything's an option. Johnson is way, way down on that list of options.

 

[tjs*]

As far as I remember, Duchene is cheaper, than what Kucherov demands. And then Tampa can trade Johnson and sign Palat and Drouin.

As to Colorado, they get a younger and better player.

Or we could just keep that "younger and better player" and not make this ridiculous trade in the first place. There are many, many, MANY far superior ways of getting under the cap than trading our best forward for peanuts.