Johnny Gaudreau Decline?

[Deen]

There is a difference between star and elite. Not too long ago you flames fans were saying Johnny = McDavid and that he is a Hart trophy player. Now he is relegated to star player that the fans and organization are okay with to have long bad stretches. yah... okay.

What do you mean his trade value has nothing to do with play. Are you new to armchair GMing? If he was consistently lighting it up, his value would be tremendously high, even more so if the rest of the team was bad. Instead, he is one of the reasons why the team is bad and has proven his leadership skills are not enough to get the team out of a bad funk. If play is not what you value, I am curious to hear what you base value on.

Even Tkachuk looks bad though. Something rotten in that room. There is no way Calgary is this bad, there's something in the water. Lucic was honestly one of our best players this year.

 

[Spawn]

I don't really think there is anything wrong to be honest. This is just the ebbs and flows in the career of a player of his caliber. There are only a handful of players in the league who can maintain that kind of production as his 99 point season over multiple seasons. No harm in not being a part of that group.

 

[Dieseloil]

"70's something point player" isn't very descriptive or generous

He's a .94 PPG player in his career while generating and carrying most of that offense he accrued. So to me he can be capable of 80-90 and a Top 10 scoring finish.

I don't think he's an MVP candidate or anything but it seems like he's gotten underrated on this site.

.94 works out to 77 points over 82 games. So the poster wasn’t out of line were they?

 

[Just Linda]

Get a #1 Centre. Something they haven't had since Nieuwendyk. Like a top 10 Centre. Someone capable of putting up 70-80 points.

He's still a great winger.

Ah man, brilliant idea, so easy. Why didn't the half the league who can't find a top 10 centre think of that.

 

[11Messier]

Everyone, including the GMs, know what Gaudreau brings, and, despite what posters on here say, this season has changed very little. The issues surrounding him have to do with his expiring contract and potential desire to play around Philly.

You say that as if these are good things. Maybe you are too invested in the player to see this objectively. Put yourself in the shoes of a GM that is interested in acquiring him.

1) Eventually this player you are acquiring stops playing in the last two years when his contract expiring. Do I really want that on my team.

2) This player outwardly verbalizes his wants which diminishes value to the team. What happens when "Philly" or "around team" starts going downhill, will he outwardly say "I have a desire to play for Boston". This handcuffs teams. If this was his desire, he should say it to the GM and only the GM. Then plays his butt off to make it happen. This gives the best value to the organization and is a win/win.

Again. I am not saying Gaudreau is bad but as an Armchair GM, I see a lot of risks and problems. He is not a primary driver of a line, He is inconsistent, he is proven to fade in the playoffs when tight hard hitting hockey commences, he takes a couple of years off when his contract is expiring, publicly verbalizes a desired location which eliminates most teams from even offering a trade. He might make out okay in free agency but he is definitley screwing Calgary from getting much value for him. The only way Calgary gets something decent is if he just absolutely tears it up next year. Actual proven play always over-rides concerns. But then Calgary's management will try to throw money at him so that he stays and we will rinse and repeat mediocrity for a few more years.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

We could use him on the left wing in Edmonton.
He'd get an elite C to play with.

Would be nice payback for poaching Glencross from us you f***ing Flame f***faces.

 

[Mobiandi]

He can still be a 90+ point player in this league but he can't be expected to do it all from the wing. Get him a proper centre and he'll explode again

 

[blankall]

You say that as if these are good things. Maybe you are too invested in the player to see this objectively. Put yourself in the shoes of a GM that is interested in acquiring him.

1) Eventually this player you are acquiring stops playing in the last two years when his contract expiring. Do I really want that on my team.

2) This player outwardly verbalizes his wants which diminishes value to the team. What happens when "Philly" or "around team" starts going downhill, will he outwardly say "I have a desire to play for Boston". This handcuffs teams. If this was his desire, he should say it to the GM and only the GM. Then plays his butt off to make it happen. This gives the best value to the organization and is a win/win.

Again. I am not saying Gaudreau is bad but as an Armchair GM, I see a lot of risks and problems. He is not a primary driver of a line, He is inconsistent, he is proven to fade in the playoffs when tight hard hitting hockey commences, he takes a couple of years off when his contract is expiring, publicly verbalizes a desired location which eliminates most teams from even offering a trade. He might make out okay in free agency but he is definitley screwing Calgary from getting much value for him. The only way Calgary gets something decent is if he just absolutely tears it up next year. Actual proven play always over-rides concerns. But then Calgary's management will try to throw money at him so that he stays and we will rinse and repeat mediocrity for a few more years.

Gaudreau the armchair GM.....he stated one time that playing for his hometown team at some point would be sweet in a radio interview:

Gaudreau says playing for Flyers someday 'would be sweet'

This was after being directly asked about playing in Philly. What was he supposed to say?

Gaudreau has at no point taken a couple of years off.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

getting some garbage time points, but he wilts when the going get tough
needs to be a support player on a good team where he isn't the best player

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You say that as if these are good things. Maybe you are too invested in the player to see this objectively. Put yourself in the shoes of a GM that is interested in acquiring him.

1) Eventually this player you are acquiring stops playing in the last two years when his contract expiring. Do I really want that on my team.

He leads the Flames in scoring over the last 2 years.

2) This player outwardly verbalizes his wants which diminishes value to the team. What happens when "Philly" or "around team" starts going downhill, will he outwardly say "I have a desire to play for Boston". This handcuffs teams. If this was his desire, he should say it to the GM and only the GM. Then plays his butt off to make it happen. This gives the best value to the organization and is a win/win.

he never outwardly verbalized his wants. A Philadelphia radio station asked him if one day he could see himself as a Flyer like 4 years ago and he said "sure, maybe one day".

Again. I am not saying Gaudreau is bad but as an Armchair GM, I see a lot of risks and problems. He is not a primary driver of a line, He is inconsistent, he is proven to fade in the playoffs when tight hard hitting hockey commences, he takes a couple of years off when his contract is expiring, publicly verbalizes a desired location which eliminates most teams from even offering a trade. He might make out okay in free agency but he is definitley screwing Calgary from getting much value for him. The only way Calgary gets something decent is if he just absolutely tears it up next year. Actual proven play always over-rides concerns. But then Calgary's management will try to throw money at him so that he stays and we will rinse and repeat mediocrity for a few more years.

You've said some dumb stuff in this thread but holy **** that takes the cake.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

getting some garbage time points, but he wilts when the going get tough
needs to be a support player on a good team where he isn't the best player

Garbage time points? The last 12 games the Flames were still very much in the playoff hunt and he was far and away their best player during that stretch.

 

[Soundwave]

I think part of the issue is a large part of the Flames offensive "attack" was predicated on Giordano and Brodie moving the puck up to their forwards.

Giordano is getting old and Brodie is gone. If it was just Gaudreau down that would be one thing but when Tkachuk and Monahan and others also can't get it going outside of stretches that indicates a bigger roster wide problem.

 

[CatchyTune]

Hard to see how/why a 27 year old would decline. But you are right. Maybe his 99 point year was an anomaly.

He is still a solid 60-70 point guy who could be a complimentary forward next to a true superstar. But no chance a team is going anywhere with him as a top 2 forward.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Garbage time points? The last 12 games the Flames were still very much in the playoff hunt and he was far and away their best player during that stretch.

Game 40, they were 8 points back with teams they were were chasing (Habs) having games in hand on them
that's not "very much in the playoff hunt"...it's garbage time

NHL Scores for April 8, 2021 | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Tripod]

Last 2 years:

Gaudreau 122 games, 64 ES pts, 36 PP pts
Konecny 116 games, 61 ES pts, 34 PP pts

Flames will try and trade him as if he still has that 90 pt value. But reality is, he has paced for 67 pts the last 2 years combined. Will be interesting to see his value if moved. But he certainly still has the skill to rebound. Remember when Giroux was in a big decline at age 28? Then had a 102 pt season finishing 2nd in league scoring. Then a 85 pt one.

JD skill didn't go away but he just isn't that 99 pt guy either.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hard to see how/why a 27 year old would decline. But you are right. Maybe his 99 point year was an anomaly.

He is still a solid 60-70 point guy who could be a complimentary forward next to a true superstar. But no chance a team is going anywhere with him as a top 2 forward.

I mean he's taken his team to the second round as it's #1 forward. That's more than anyone on the leafs can say.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Game 40, they were 8 points back with teams they were were chasing (Habs) having games in hand on them
that's not "very much in the playoff hunt"...it's garbage time

NHL Scores for April 8, 2021 | Hockey-Reference.com

And they had 5 head to head games vs Montreal still to be played. At one point during that stretch they had > 20% chance to make the playoffs. That's far from garbage time.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And they had 5 head to head games vs Montreal still to be played. At one point during that stretch they had > 20% chance to make the playoffs. That's far from garbage time.

whatever you need to do to convince yourself I guess...their playoff chances were very slim then and the gap hasn't shrunk
again, the guy routinely comes up small in big games (see playoffs)

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

What's the problem?

There isn't one?

Gaudreau would easily be throwing up 100+ points a season if he had a center who could skate the puck through the neutral zone without needing to dump it into a corner, and make plays to set him up instead of always needing to be set up. I'm not even talking about Jack Eichel or Sasha Barkov. I'm talking Elias Pettersson, Sam Bennett, William Karlson etc.

instead, Gaudreau has spent most of his career stapled to Sean Monahan who is better suited to 3rd line winger than 1st line center. And this year was hilarious because when Sutter came in, he for some reason overestimated Brett Ritchie and put him on 1RW. So that Gaudreau-Monahan-Ritchie line played some weird, slow dump and chase game that would have made zero sense even if Gaudreau were Alex Ovechkin in his prime.

Since Sutter put Gaudreau on a line with Lindholm he's been on fire, although I think the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line is still lack speed and puck carrying ability outside of Johnny.

 

[BlueMed]

People who keep citing his high points need to remind themselves how much he cherry picks and cheats out of his zone. Defense and physicality are still important in today's game.

 

[CatchyTune]

I mean he's taken his team to the second round as it's #1 forward. That's more than anyone on the leafs can say.

cool

point still stands. 65 point guys arent offense carriers

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

cool

point still stands. 65 point guys arent offense carriers

Who's a 65 point player? Gaudreau's averaged a point per game pace his entire career despite having an extremely poor "center".

whatever you need to do to convince yourself I guess...their playoff chances were very slim then and the gap hasn't shrunk
again, the guy routinely comes up small in big games (see playoffs)

Did you see the playoffs, where he was the flames best player in their last 3 games vs Dallas?

Or this?

 

[42]

He has 15 points in his last 12 games.....this season was a tire fire for the entire team, and then Gaudreau had to adjust to the drastically different system under Sutter. Gaudreau had a stretch of like 25 bad games, right in the middle of the season (as did the whole team), which was exaggerated by the shortened season.

This thread is late by about a month. Anyone who has watched Flames game in the last month would know that Gaudreau looks great again.

Obviously Bennett was holding him back.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

cool

point still stands. 65 point guys arent offense carriers

He was a 65 point player as a rookie. Rookies aren't expected to be offense carriers.

Since then?

Gaudreau has 422 points in his last 435 games while playing with a ""center"" that almost no one on HFBoards wouldn trade anything of value for.

That, by the way, is an 80 point pace per 82 games.

So which of these players is not an offense carrier for his team? I mean, sure, Draisaitl wouldn't be nearly as productive without McDavid all those years, so I guess him.

 

[CatchyTune]

Who's a 65 point player? Gaudreau's averaged a point per game pace his entire career despite having an extremely poor "center".



Did you see the playoffs, where he was the flames best player in their last 3 games vs Dallas?

Or this?

Talking about right now. Paced for 68 last year and playing to a 66 point pace over 82 this year.