Value of: John Tavares, is there a Market?

[Guffman]

Tavares would not waive to a bottom feeder. He wants to win a cup. Dubas would not ask to waive. Not a chance…

You’re right as far as this upcoming season. Toronto did have a nice year (but had the misfortune of running into the two time defending Cup champs). They’ll be taking another swing at this next year for sure.

 

[The90]

No, he's getting paid what he's paid because Dubas is an idiot.

"hE sCoReD pPg"

Cool story, scoring at 1 PPG is not close to being an $11m forward. $11m forwards should baseline at 100 pts a season. He only makes $1.5m less than McDavid

That’s good. Find me a short list of players who’ve been ppg for 13 years?

How about find me a list of UFA big ticket players who weren’t overpaid slightly? He’s 2 million overpaid. Unlike some GM’s, Dubas made exactly 1 bad signing in Ritchie and 1 signing he wishes could be a bit cheaper. The rest are very good. He’s found cheap and effective depth from everywhere. Mikheyev, Engvall, Kampf, Bunting, Holl, Kase, Spezza.

He probably wishes JT took 2 million less, but when it’s compared to his entire body of work he’s done very well. Even if it makes you angry enough to put a sarcastic font that says ‘hE scOrEd Ppg’. Guess what? He did. And since the time he signed that contract, he’s scored the 18th most points in the league. Anyone that is above or near him on the list that signed contracts recently are about where he’s at. I don’t love the contract but you being salty about him being much better than you want him to be doesn’t change that he’s still very good.

 

[NewLife]

It would be for another dumb contract. Say Erik Karlsson.

 

[dpospish]

That’s good. Find me a short list of players who’ve been ppg for 13 years?

How about find me a list of UFA big ticket players who weren’t overpaid slightly? He’s 2 million overpaid. Unlike some GM’s, Dubas made exactly 1 bad signing in Ritchie and 1 signing he wishes could be a bit cheaper. The rest are very good. He’s found cheap and effective depth from everywhere. Mikheyev, Engvall, Kampf, Bunting, Holl, Kase, Spezza.

He probably wishes JT took 2 million less, but when it’s compared to his entire body of work he’s done very well. Even if it makes you angry enough to put a sarcastic font that says ‘hE scOrEd Ppg’. Guess what? He did. And since the time he signed that contract, he’s scored the 18th most points in the league. Anyone that is above or near him on the list that signed contracts recently are about where he’s at. I don’t love the contract but you being salty about him being much better than you want him to be doesn’t change that he’s still very good.

Why do you keep saying this?

Tavares has been point per game or better in only 4 of his 13 seasons.

 

[The90]

Why do you keep saying this?

Tavares has been point per game or better in only 4 of his 13 seasons.

Because what your shitty counter argument fails to note is that in 6 of those seasons he was within a single digit of being ppg. He’s played 949 NHL games and has 895 points. Good for 6th most points since he entered the league. If you want to continue your shitty ‘he’s not ppg’ argument, you go right ahead.

 

[Volt]

Because what your shitty counter argument fails to note is that in 6 of those seasons he was within a single digit of being ppg. He’s played 949 NHL games and has 895 points. Good for 6th most points since he entered the league. If you want to continue your shitty ‘he’s not ppg’ argument, you go right ahead.

You know what is shittier than the 'he's not ppg' argument? JT's contract and cap hit.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Maybe if the laughs give up a first and retain something like 50%. Or maybe a cap dump for a cap dump trade.

11 million

Even if we on board with that it's impossible because JT has a full NTC so he's going no where even if we offer every asset we own and retained half

And it's the Leafs, all you guys ever do is talk shit its sad and pathetic
I wish we could have won 1st overall every single year till McDavid came along beyond pathetic. you guys have been spoiled ever since EDM came into the NHL.

 

[The90]

You know what is shittier than the 'he's not ppg' argument? JT's contract and cap hit.

I’d say your attempt at a ‘own’ here might be shittiest. I already said I don’t love his contract. But they gave up no one to get a player of his quality, and continue to find Buntings, Mikheyev and Engvall type players. Forgive me if I’m not really all that concerned with the impending cap hell that’s about to hit for the fourth straight year. What ever will the leafs do with too many good players that need to be paid.

 

[Golden_Jet]

What ever will the leafs do with too many good players that need to be paid.

Trade them like Verghaege.

 

[Hunter368]

I can't see much of a market for him unless the Leafs are taking an equally rough contract back

 

[The90]

Trade them like Verghaege.

He looks great. Marchment too. You’d be hard pressed to find a good team who doesn’t have the same type of cap casualty’s in the league.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Leafs gave up a 1st rounder to get rid of 1 year of MAarleau at 6m

The assets they would have to attach to get rid of 3 years of Tavares at 11m would be astronomical.

Dude is getting slower every season, i think he need to move to Wing soon as well.

This has been such a bad signing.

 

[Beesfan]

I don't know if Boston and Toronto could ever be trading partners, but if Bergeron does retire there would be a serious need for a first line center, and they would need to look at all options, including Tavares.

The consideration to Toronto would be mostly the cap relief of getting Tavares off the books. I could see something like Foligno and Grzelcyk for Tavares.

 

[93Gilmour]

I love how people get so worked up at about a cap hit but if you're a team without a number one center how do you find one? You draft and develop one which means you bottom out or you pay through the teeth on a trade.

How often to we see a 1C on the UFA market?

Is his cap hit high? Sure but every team has players who are overpaid, overpaying a 1C is the least offensive. It Tavares at 11 million is your team's biggest issue then that's a great roster but this is HF so the collective 'intelligence' will just reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee about a minor issue.

Yes there is always a market for an 80 point center.

PK Subban got traded to NJ after he was completely fallen off, anyone that suggest Tavares is untradeable is just being obnoxious. The NMC is the only obstacle but players have waived them in the past and will waive them in the future.

 

[YP44]

only 3 years left is not bad IMO.
Seems too reactionary

 

[FMichael]

That’s good. Find me a short list of players who’ve been ppg for 13 years?

How about find me a list of UFA big ticket players who weren’t overpaid slightly? He’s 2 million overpaid. Unlike some GM’s, Dubas made exactly 1 bad signing in Ritchie and 1 signing he wishes could be a bit cheaper. The rest are very good. He’s found cheap and effective depth from everywhere. Mikheyev, Engvall, Kampf, Bunting, Holl, Kase, Spezza.

He probably wishes JT took 2 million less, but when it’s compared to his entire body of work he’s done very well. Even if it makes you angry enough to put a sarcastic font that says ‘hE scOrEd Ppg’. Guess what? He did. And since the time he signed that contract, he’s scored the 18th most points in the league. Anyone that is above or near him on the list that signed contracts recently are about where he’s at. I don’t love the contract but you being salty about him being much better than you want him to be doesn’t change that he’s still very good.

And to be honest - the Doug Wilson signings in San Jose are considerably worse.

 

[The90]

H

I love how people get so worked up at about a cap hit but if you're a team without a number one center how do you find one? You draft and develop one which means you bottom out or you pay through the teeth on a trade.

How often to we see a 1C on the UFA market?

Is his cap hit high? Sure but every team has players who are overpaid, overpaying a 1C is the least offensive. It Tavares at 11 million is your team's biggest issue then that's a great roster but this is HF so the collective 'intelligence' will just reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee about a minor issue.

Yes there is always a market for an 80 point center.

PK Subban got traded to NJ after he was completely fallen off, anyone that suggest Tavares is untradeable is just being obnoxious. The NMC is the only obstacle but players have waived them in the past and will waive them in the future.

Honest to god. So ridiculous. Tavares is a lightning rod despite coming to Toronto for free and producing every year. It’s ridiculous. Change just for changes sake is a joke.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

How was nothing you said wrong? I literally provided the stats to discredit your hot take. It made no sense. He’s been well above both of your examples his entire career. He’s ~60 points under a ppg over 13 seasons.

Personal because I called you out on making something up? I provided you with the actual statistics that refute your argument, because of that you’re accusing me of being ‘personal’ and ‘immature’ when in reality you just don’t have a response to what you clearly never researched before posting.

You didn't discredit my take. He was a point per game player in 3 of his 13 seasons. He wasn't this season, he wasn't last season and he won't be next season. He's not a point per game player, period. His career numbers aren't relevant his current value either. It's like saying Kopitar is a 70 point player because that's what his career average is. The whole topic of this thread is how valuable a player a team would be getting in Tavares via trade. They would not be getting a point per game player.

 

[93Gilmour]

Honest to god. So ridiculous. Tavares is a lightning rod despite coming to Toronto for free and producing every year. It’s ridiculous. Change just for changes sake is a joke.

Yep, people fetishize cap hits, they selectively find sweetheart deals ignore the context in which they were signed and then make them the standard to criticize deals like JT's.

If the Leafs never signed Tavares they would have used that cap room to overpay Hyman and another Muzzin type. I'm much happier 'overpaying' John.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The Leafs probably knew when they signed Tavares that the last few years he would not be worth his cap hit. This is pretty standard in these long term deals that take players into their mid 30’s. No one is signing Tavares for an $11 million cap hit if he were a free agent as his best years are now in the rear view mirror. He’s still a good player but that’s simply the reality.
So even if he waives there’s going to have to be retention plus an asset included. The value for Toronto is the cap space created.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The irony is 2 seasons in, its disgruntled Leaf fans with the “We don’t need you” chant!!!

 

[The90]

You didn't discredit my take. He was a point per game player in 3 of his 13 seasons. He wasn't this season, he wasn't last season and he won't be next season. He's not a point per game player, period. His career numbers aren't relevant his current value either. It's like saying Kopitar is a 70 point player because that's what his career average is. The whole topic of this thread is how valuable a player a team would be getting in Tavares via trade. They would not be getting a point per game player.

His leaf numbers are actually better than his career numbers. .945 career vs .978 as a leaf.

Do you want to continue your shitty argument or are you going to concede? At least come with a half decent argument that isn’t disprove-able. 2 seasons he was 1 single point under ppg, another 2 he was 3 under and another he was 6 under. If it gives you wet dreams to think he’s not a ppg player, you do you. But it’s an absolute joke of an argument. You’re also fooling nobody.

The irony is 2 seasons in, its disgruntled Leaf fans with the “We don’t need you” chant!!!

Where’s that happening? Fantasyland from a few outliers?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

His leaf numbers are actually better than his career numbers. .945 career vs .978 as a leaf.

Do you want to continue your shitty argument or are you going to concede? At least come with a half decent argument that isn’t disprove-able. 2 seasons he was 1 single point under ppg, another 2 he was 3 under and another he was 6 under. If it gives you wet dreams to think he’s not a ppg player, you do you. But it’s an absolute joke of an argument. You’re also fooling nobody.

You're literally using examples of all the seasons he was under a point per game to argue that he's a point per game player.

 

[The90]

I don't know if Boston and Toronto could ever be trading partners, but if Bergeron does retire there would be a serious need for a first line center, and they would need to look at all options, including Tavares.

The consideration to Toronto would be mostly the cap relief of getting Tavares off the books. I could see something like Foligno and Grzelcyk for Tavares.

2 literal cap dumps, for a PPG player. Seems legit.

 

[MardyBum]

I love how people get so worked up at about a cap hit but if you're a team without a number one center how do you find one? You draft and develop one which means you bottom out or you pay through the teeth on a trade.

How often to we see a 1C on the UFA market?

Is his cap hit high? Sure but every team has players who are overpaid, overpaying a 1C is the least offensive. It Tavares at 11 million is your team's biggest issue then that's a great roster but this is HF so the collective 'intelligence' will just reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee about a minor issue.

Yes there is always a market for an 80 point center.

PK Subban got traded to NJ after he was completely fallen off, anyone that suggest Tavares is untradeable is just being obnoxious. The NMC is the only obstacle but players have waived them in the past and will waive them in the future.

How many contenders(and those are the only teams if any he'd waive to) have 11 million in capspace to add Tavares and don't have a 1C already? Maybe Boston if Bergeron retires?

11 mil cap hit is a big deal, and it's not like he's a 100 point player. He'd still have value, but between the cap hit and his NMC the destinations are severely limited if Dubas was ever going to look to move him(which he very likely won't).

They probably just wait and see if they can re-sign Matthews and how much it will cost, maybe they ask him to waive in his final year if they need the cap space.