Post-Game Talk: John Tavares is a Toronto Maple Leaf.

[Nineteen67]

Took Ovechkin a long time to learn that lesson. Seems like the switch has been flipped though and Matthews has been physically engaged for the last 20-30 games of his career. We’re still in the infancy of physical Matthews so it won’t be as consistent as we want.

Ovechkin came out the womb hitting people and was always a power forward. But he’s ~ 25 lbs heavier than Matthews and thick as truck.

 

[Stephen]

Agree on the surface but bear in mind those players usually have both their careers and peaks cut short. It's a fine line.

I don’t know about that as a rule of thumb. If I were to compare, I would take a Draisaitl level of nastiness from Matthews on a nightly basis.

 

[Stephen]

What are you even talking about? You claimed that Matthews "taking Konecny" would "create space". That's false. It wouldn't change anything.

On every team around the league, depth guys are going to handle the "rough stuff" more than the most valuable players to your team. That's just called being smart. There are moments where Matthews throwing down may be beneficial or necessary, but a scrum caused by a couple minor slashes that's already being dealt with at the end of a nothing 5-2 game at the beginning of November is certainly not the time to be risking injury.

He pushed back, grabbed him, and threw some cross checks, and then his teammates came to have his back. Nothing wrong with that.

Ron Francis and Mark Messier have said it’s important for a star players to snap once in a while to keep the opposition honest. I’ll trust the word of Hall of Famers on this one.

In the end, Matthews disengaged from a scrum with a 5’10” agitator so a 39 year old teammate and a 5’10” teammate could defend him after a round of ankle slashes.

Is it the end of the world? No. Did his teammates do well there? Yes. Could Matthews have done a little bit more? Ideally.

This also raises the biggest question and it goes back to Dubas. If Matthews (and our stars) are so precious and we need to keep them from harm’s way, why don’t we have the correct personnel to protect them?

 

[Stephen]

Yep, his game as evolved. Just needs to take it a little further.

It always baffles me when people respond negatively to the idea that any Leaf player could do a little more of something. Like they’re maxed on giving.

 

[ACC1224]

Has everything Sittler had and more but Sittler had an "edge" that Matty lacks. Sit would have had a slightly different reaction than Matty had last night. My favourite Leaf along with the big Swede.

Yeah no doubt but the game was different then. Could you imagine pulling the sissy grin that he's known for back then?

It always baffles me when people respond negatively to the idea that any Leaf player could do a little more of something. Like they’re maxed on giving.

Pretty obvious that some have a limited understanding of what goes on.
All good, there are all kinds of fans. Ideally they would absorb some of the information so they can better understand what happens on the ice but I don't think that'll happen any day soon.

 

[Nineteen67]

Good game, not great. This was the closest we've come to looking like the team from last season. Still a little sloppy throughout the ice. Seeing a lot of unsupported pinches by the D-men. I put this on the forwards. One in particular last night where I believe Gio jumped into the play (good read), Willy should have stayed high on the point to cover but decided to drift into the slot, Gio Misses the net and it gets sprung back for a 2 on 1. Just simple things like that we still need to clean up. I felt like we had about 4-5 of those mind gaps in neutral/offensive zone through the first 2 periods. Maybe more. You don't need high quality opponents to make you pay on mistakes like that.

Looked like we got our Mojo back in the 3rd there. Spearheaded by Johnny. I think the second he scored the 4th goal you could see the group started to play like their confident selves. Really hope this win can springboard us into playing the right way going forward.

Sammy looked great once again. He obviously would like to have that 2nd one back, but other then that he was excellent IMO.

You can tell Matthews is just about to pop off as well.

4th line was very noticeable in a good way. I oddly think Malgin is a very good addition to that 4th line. He adds that little element of skill to extend plays in the offensive zone, while not being overly deficient defensively either.

Keep the ball rolling Saturday. Big game against the hottest team in the NHL. I'd like to see our best effort yet

The difference between last night and the western road trip was the opposition. Because the game slowed down a bit they were a little more relaxed, I suppose. Would they have panicked if Philly scored on the opening break? We still have no idea.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

What did Tavares do last night that was different than any other game he’s played this year? Forget the goalie‘s poor positioning, that’s likely not going to happen often.

That move on his second goal. Since his first year with us, it's been few and far between the times that he's just singlehandedly made a star play like that.
But agreed, Flyers goaltender was brutal and JT has consistently played well this year.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Let's be honest. If Auston just faked tough in that situation, he'd gain some respect in that dept. (Not that he has to, or lost any)

But all he had to do was tie him up, a little wrestle and call it a day. Him standing around while others paired up, was kinda hard to watch. He's not a wimp, just show some emotion ...it'll go a long way for the team.

 

[Tak7]

Not all situations are the same.

Multiple Flyers would have loved to fight Matthews in this one. As soon as he attempted to grab one of them they would have taken it as a free invitation to drop their gloves and fight without having to worry about the late game instigator penalty and the resulting suspension.

Then tie up someone who doesn't want to fight.

 

[Nineteen67]

That move on his second goal. Since his first year with us, it's been few and far between the times that he's just singlehandedly made a star play like that.
But agreed, Flyers goaltender was brutal and JT has consistently played well this year.

He tries those moves all the time. Usually the D man play it a little better - in Anaheim that 1 on 1 in front of the net, the D forced a weaker back hand.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Matthews not wanting to break his hand on a Flyer's face and keep healthy for Boston on Saturday is what our Hart trophy winning center should be doing.

 

[SprDaVE]

This also raises the biggest question and it goes back to Dubas. If Matthews (and our stars) are so precious and we need to keep them from harm’s way, why don’t we have the correct personnel to protect them?

What do you think Bunting and Gio did? Why do you think they bring in guys like Simmonds, Clifford, Benn, etc. ?

Matthews has shown so much emotion in his time here in many different ways, whether it was through physical play or other expressions. I don't know why anyone would want him to fight every tough guy that comes his way as some sort of token of engagement. He's never going to be a fighter and he's never going to start wrestling guys on the ice just because of some old school optics to show you care.

All that in the 11th game of the season with the team up by 3 goals. Good lord.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ron Francis and Mark Messier have said it’s important for a star players to snap once in a while to keep the opposition honest. I’ll trust the word of Hall of Famers on this one.
In the end, Matthews disengaged from a scrum with a 5’10” agitator so a 39 year old teammate and a 5’10” teammate could defend him after a round of ankle slashes
Is it the end of the world? No. Did his teammates do well there? Yes. Could Matthews have done a little bit more? Ideally.
This also raises the biggest question and it goes back to Dubas. If Matthews (and our stars) are so precious and we need to keep them from harm’s way, why don’t we have the correct personnel to protect them?

Cherry picking and taking out of context unsourced comments from a whole two players you think agree with you who played decades ago in a different era doesn't prove anything you're saying. That's called searching for somebody who agrees with your position and making an appeal to false authority, instead of making sure your position is correct.

How would they have any idea how the opposition is feeling in the first place? Are they saying that they personally played hard against star players until they "snapped", and then they just let them have all the time and space they wanted? Doesn't sound much like them, or anybody. Matthews "snapped" last year and it did a whole lot of nothing except make the team worse for a couple games because he was suspended.

Regardless, "snapping once in a while" doesn't mean "snapping every single time because I want it" anyway. A minor scrum at the end of a nothing 5-2 game in November isn't the time to "snap". Matthews did not disengage from a scrum. He was engaged in the scrum, gave the guy a bunch of cross checks, and then his teammates came rushing in to have his back, so their reigning Hart trophy winner didn't have to fight. Nothing wrong or unusual about that. It's called people playing their role.

We do have the correct personnel to protect our stars. It was handled perfectly fine.

 

[Stephen]

What do you think Bunting and Gio did? Why do you think they bring in guys like Simmonds, Clifford, Benn, etc. ?

Matthews has shown so much emotion in his time here in many different ways, whether it was through physical play or other facial expressions. I don't know why anyone would want him to fight every tough guy that comes his way as some sort of token of engagement. He's never going to be a fighter and he's never going to start wrestling guys on the ice just because of some old school optics to show you care.

You got it all wrong, it’s not to show he cares or something abstract or “old school” like that. It’s to physically defend himself where someone has intended to harm him.

Gio and Bunting showed up this time. No one was there when Benn cross checked him in the ribs in the Dallas game. Holl didn’t show up when Brodie was boarded. The response on this team is simply not reliable.

 

[Stephen]

Cherry picking and taking out of context unsourced comments from a whole two players you think agree with you who played decades ago in a different era doesn't prove anything you're saying. That's called searching for somebody who agrees with your position and making an appeal to false authority, instead of making sure your position is correct.

How would they have any idea how the opposition is feeling in the first place? Are they saying that they personally played hard against star players until they "snapped", and then they just let them have all the time and space they wanted? Doesn't sound much like them, or anybody. Matthews "snapped" last year and it did a whole lot of nothing except make the team worse for a couple games because he was suspended.

Regardless, "snapping once in a while" doesn't mean "snapping every single time because I want it" anyway. A minor scrum at the end of a nothing 5-2 game in November isn't the time to "snap". Matthews did not disengage from a scrum. He was engaged in the scrum, gave the guy a bunch of cross checks, and then his teammates came rushing in to have his back, so their reigning Hart trophy winner didn't have to fight. Nothing wrong or unusual about that. It's called people playing their role.

We do have the correct personnel to protect our stars. It was handled perfectly fine.

What about when Brodie was boarded head first into the boards and Holl pretended like nothing happened earlier in the game? Was that correct handling?

 

[SprDaVE]

You got it all wrong, it’s not to show he cares or something abstract or “old school” like that. It’s to physically defend himself where someone has intended to harm him.

Gio and Bunting showed up this time. No one was there when Benn cross checked him in the ribs in the Dallas game. Holl didn’t show up when Brodie was boarded. The response on this team is simply not reliable.

Do we want him to defend himself or to have the team to respond to cheap shots or penalties? I think we're moving goal posts a lot here. He was defending himself just fine against Konecny, and then a teammate jumped in because they know. I'm sure jumping into the pile with a flying elbow would have been great and all.

So we saw the team responding to their superstar player getting into it in a 3 goal win with a few minutes left. Is this not what you want? The team to defend each other and get each others back? I'm so confused.

I think this team defends each other as much as any other team. I've seen the Bruins just watch someone get boarded or head shot. Sometimes the reaction isn't going to be about violent retaliation in the moment. It's not black and white. We micro analyze this team so much that we get blinded.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What about when Brodie was boarded head first into the boards and Holl pretended like nothing happened earlier in the game? Was that correct handling?

The issue here is that it seems like you think every single minor incident in every game needs a big flashy response. That's not realistic, for any team.

 

[ACC1224]

Matthews not wanting to break his hand on a Flyer's face and keep healthy for Boston on Saturday is what our Hart trophy winning center should be doing.

man, the extremes this place goes to.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

He tries those moves all the time. Usually the D man play it a little better - in Anaheim that 1 on 1 in front of the net, the D forced a weaker back hand.

Meh, the last couple of years when he tried to make dangles he was often just losing the puck. The only time I can think of where it worked was against Winnipeg where he dangled inside-out and fed Nylander for the one timer. I was actually more concerned about his hands than his legs but he looks noticeably better this year. Anyways, I don't disagree, Philadelphia is terrible all around lol, but that goal is still worth all the praise.

 

[fahad203]

Matthews not wanting to break his hand on a Flyer's face and keep healthy for Boston on Saturday is what our Hart trophy winning center should be doing.

You don't have to drop your gloves nor do you have to get into a fist fight. But for him to stand aroudn while team mates are defending him

Also on that note, just because you drop your gloves doesn't mean it's a guranteed broken hand

But if you are going to slash someone, who is half of your size then just let Bunting do all the work is BS in my opinion. Do your own dirty work

I am not suggesting he has to get into fights., He doesn't. You can be tough to play against without dropping gloves.

Malkin also fought few people, I have yet to see him breaking his hands. He could have gone back and threw a hit on Flyers like Malkin has over the years

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tim Horton was reputedly ridiculously strong, dangling a teammate by his ankles over a balcony

He did one-handed chinups in the doorways of hotel rooms.

The other favourite story is about him and Derek Sanderson. Sanderson had elbowed him a couple of times, and Horton finally got mad. He didn't like fighting, so he grabbed him in a bear hug and squeezed. Sanderson bit him.

When asked about it afterwards, Sanderson said "when I felt the second rib crack, I had to do something".

 

[Enniskillen]

Malgin was good on the 4th line, without him ZAR would have been goalless for another 10 games.

 

[fahad203]

Ron Francis and Mark Messier have said it’s important for a star players to snap once in a while to keep the opposition honest. I’ll trust the word of Hall of Famers on this one.

In the end, Matthews disengaged from a scrum with a 5’10” agitator so a 39 year old teammate and a 5’10” teammate could defend him after a round of ankle slashes.

Is it the end of the world? No. Did his teammates do well there? Yes. Could Matthews have done a little bit more? Ideally.

This also raises the biggest question and it goes back to Dubas. If Matthews (and our stars) are so precious and we need to keep them from harm’s way, why don’t we have the correct personnel to protect them?

Malkin gets a lot of space and time because opponents know, once in a while, he'll bury you if you mess with him

He has done that to Rangers so many times. Matthews is 6'3, he needs to man up once in a while, throw that big hit, drop the gloves especially if you started it

 

[Stephen]

Do we want him to defend himself or to have the team to respond to cheap shots or penalties? I think we're moving goal posts a lot here. He was defending himself just fine against Konecny, and then a teammate jumped in because they know. I'm sure jumping into the pile with a flying elbow would have been great and all.

So we saw team responding to their superstar player getting into it in a 3 goal win with a few minutes left. Is this not what you want? The team to defend each other and get each others back? I'm so confused.

I think this team defends each other as much as any other team. I've seen the Bruins just watch someone get boarded or head shot. Sometimes the reaction isn't going to be about violence retaliation in the moment. It's not black and white. We micro analyze this team so much that we get blinded.

I’m not moving any goal post. I think Matthews is super elite and could get a little more aggressive in his approach and assert himself in these kind of situations and that will make him more effective. It will also dissuade others from freely taking cheap shots whenever they want without getting their noses bloodied. That’s the whole thesis.

The alternative line of thinking is Matthews and our stars are too precious to risk in any of the “old school” stuff. If we are creating a separate class of stars who don’t need to protect themselves, then why don’t we have a greater protector class of big body teammates and face punchers?

Last night was Travis Konecny, a 5’10” rat that Gio and Bunting could fight. This could easily be Tom Wilson or Jacob Trouba who simply decides he wants to create some havoc. What is our response?

The way I see it, other teams always have the option of trying to bully the Leafs to neutralize their skill and there are two options. Every Leaf player can play a little tougher and defend each other (that includes Matthews defending himself, or even stepping in to protect a teammate), or you have a class of protectors and protected (which the GM has not built the roster for).

 

[The Podium]

man, the extremes this place goes to.

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