John Tavares Discussion

[DraftSchmaft]

Tavares has been such a wall at even strength that without Simmonds in the lineup in game 2 we could be up 3-0 right now because Tampa was in a spot to get beat easily at even strength in game 2. A multi point game tomorrow and suddenly he's back into top 3 impact due to his defensive play prior.

He still looked really good along the boards when his line was hemmed in the 3rd last night. Kept most of it to the outside. Not sure what people are seeing about not being engaged.

Just relax and stop playing with fire trying to get this guy off the team it will have a massive domino effect that will slap you right back in the face.

Move the depth guys up 1 on the depth charts and suddenly they're no longer fan favorites. We're not going to 4v5 our way to 16 wins. Tavares is a core glue type player. Agree 100% with the domino effect.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Everyone should have known it was a mistake from the moment it was signed. GMs make these mistakes again and again throughout NHL history because it isn't their money getting wasted, I guess. The contract wrecked the entire cap structure for the team and resulted in Matthews and Marner also taking huge deals which has crippled the ability to get and keep depth on the team.

Tavares is still good, but hugely overpaid at this point, and the contract is only going to look worse and worse until we get out from under it. In the meantime it really handicaps the Leafs ability to juggle things around in the cap world.

There’s no cap complications, there’s no lack of depth. Step back from the ledge, man.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Nothing good comes from any thread wanting a player to get traded after the playoffs while we're still playing playoff games. It's total fan defeatism.

I still agree with this guy.

 

[Jeypic]

Thread title sucks. I think John Tavares could still help us win a cup this year.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

This thread should be removed, we should be all in.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

"My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many."

 

[JL17]

I need a lobotomy after watching this team fail for a quarter century time and time again, in spite of having some of the best players ever in #34 #16 #44 #13 #93... Even Phil. Don't waste money, breed talent. f*** #19 or whatever JT wears. He is a fraud. He doesn't deserve it. He's lead nothing but the Knights team to victory, which arguably was Kadri's team. I miss Naz. #43 was a true Leaf too.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nazem Kadri and John Tavares Reunited

The Toronto Maple Leafs hope to re-claim the dynamic chemistry between Nazem Kadri and John Tavares while being line-mates in London.

www.google.com

He didn’t even lead that team. Kadri was far and away the most impactful player in the forward group. Knights fan thought DelZotto was the best pickup in the deal.

He didn’t help London beat Windsor. I was a season late ticket holder and JT relied on back door tap ins and leaving the zone early. JT got his points at home but as soon as he was in Windsor and match ups happened he was invisible.

 

[nuck]

I do like Tavares and in any other scenario I would have loved to have signed him but then in 2017 it just did not seem like what we needed at the time. It accelerated the rebuild a bit to fast while at the same time meant there was not much room financially to really build a strong team.

Sorry for the brick of text but...

I am pretty sure it ignited the salary expectations of the big 3 and everyone was aware of the remaining Marleau money. If you look at the JT threads before the signing I think half the board kind of predicted this situation, and that was before the unexpectedly high cost of the other contracts that have defined the Leafs cap situation since then. It was Kyle wanting to flex the organization's financial muscle at a time when he was preoccupied with an all dangle forward group. He wasn't expecting to get railed by the big 3 or for the cap to stop increasing so I don't want to steer this into a KD bash because nobody was predicting those two factors at the time and they did not pay over market value. Hindsight is always 20-20 and 2018-19 JT was a definite stud so after that year it didn't look like much of a mistake.

There are two separate issues with Tavares. One is the salary and what it has done to their personnel options under the cap. It could be argued that his salary was not a problem until the big 3 were signed so one of them outbound might/should have been the solution that year. Adios Willie because they were still a 100pt club that year without his sorry contribution and if his hold-out ass is down the road I think the Marner negotiation goes a bit differently for the club. Anyways the money is the money, and even if he were to agree to be dealt there is almost certainly a buttload of bad money coming back so he probably doesn't become a potential solution to a cap problem, they would just be rearranging deck chairs.

The other thing is his play. 31 year old Muzzin played great until he got winged in the playoffs. He had a bad year and people were writing him off because of his age, as though he got stupider when he turned 32, or was physically used up. Knock on wood Muzz has come back. Reilly was a pylon for his 25 year old season and nobody said he was used up or a once year wonder. They never went into any detail about his issues but he came back. I don't know if JT is having physical issues but if he has some post concussion shit from the knee who knows? Crosby's second head shot took him a year to get right. And neck, back, hip whatever there are a whole bunch of things guys play through and we never hear about it unless they announce post season surgery.

Im not saying I know this is what's happening but I think a physical issue is at least as likely as he got dumber or forgot how to shoot or pass. If an injury puts a hitch in a guys play he gets worried he can't close gaps or he might not be able to strip a puck off if he commits so he stops doing those things instinctually because he has to think about it. The thinking costs him his time and space, or he is actually a quarter step slower and doesn't complete the play. It would suck if all he needed was more rest to get his body right but thats the game, and its too late now.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Everyone blaming Tavares for second goal against when it was Brodie who was weak link for that one. Everything was to the outside until Brodie moved it to the middle.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Time for Tavares to step it up a notch

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I want matt with Marner. Nylander on second line without Tavares. 3rd line intact.

So first line or forth for Tavares.
Would instant make the team better
(not first line tho, but they should manage.)

putting John Tavares on the 4th line would be stupid that's not how you get him going

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I’m over this guy and nylander. They can’t produce…..if somehow they finish with their current totals id ship them out regardless of series win or loss

Good luck shipping out Tavares, Dubas made that particular boat anchor un-shippable.

 

[NJG]

Playoffs are long if you make it all the way. Just because he hasn't scored doesn't mean anything right now... yes it would be better if he was scoring but he's still a good player and still does good things even when he's not scoring. He wins us possession just off of how good he is on faceoffs alone. I'm sure Tampa had guy's who weren't scoring right away or that got into slumps when they won two cups. People need to relax it's three games in.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Playoffs are long if you make it all the way. Just because he hasn't scored doesn't mean anything right now... yes it would be better if he was scoring but he's still a good player and still does good things even when he's not scoring. He wins us possession just off of how good he is on faceoffs alone. I'm sure Tampa had guy's who weren't scoring right away or that got into slumps when they won two cups. People need to relax it's three games in.

Some dudes had Leafs in 3, so this 3 game offensive slump ended their season.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

There's not a lot of overlap between Sundin and Tavares other than 80ish points on the stats line. The talent level around him was lower as he crept up in his 30s post lockout, and he never had the flash of an Auston Matthews, but he was more of a Getzlaf/Kopitar type center. He was always primarily involved whenever he was out there. He often had the puck, he made guys around him better. He was mobile for a big man for his time. He ripped pucks on net, cycled the puck, made finesse passing plays.

He also earned his captaincy over time, put in a decade and a half of sweat equity. There's no equivalency between the two.

He also played in a slower era where those attributes were used better. Tavares was born 15 years too late. The way the game was in the mid 00's was perfect for tavares. I don't think there is as much difference as people want to think. I think it's just people want to shit on Tavares and pretend Sundin was a sun god.

 

[NJG]

What I am on about are facts. He is super overpaid and that matters in a cap world. Yes, the Leafs are a strong team atm, but they can't hang on to the depth they develop because they can't afford to.

Hopefully Tavares can step it up somehow and the Leafs can win in this window because his contract is an anchor that is going to get heavier the next few years.

Every free agent is overpaid that's the point of free agency, everyone get's more then they would normally get because other teams are also interested and willing to pay the price.

The depth has been the reason why we are up 2-1 right now and if it wasn't for Simmonds we might even be up 3-0 right now. As long as he's doing other things and helping the team win in other areas of the game (which he is) that's all that matters. Kampf has two goals, Mikheyev has two goals... so by that logic then I guess Marner is a bust? Since he only has one goal in three games and his price tag is much higher then Kampf or Mikheyev... It doesn't matter who is scoring as long as the team is scoring. People need to relax and stop complaining about every little thing. It's funny how people who have never made it anywhere playing hockey or people that don't even play hockey want to talk shit about a guy who actually plays hockey at the highest level. Everyone on these forums is a professional online hockey player.

 

[Havoc]

Every free agent is overpaid that's the point of free agency, everyone get's more then they would normally get because other teams are also interested and willing to pay the price.

The depth has been the reason why we are up 2-1 right now and if it wasn't for Simmonds we might even be up 3-0 right now. As long as he's doing other things and helping the team win in other areas of the game (which he is) that's all that matters. Kampf has two goals, Mikheyev has two goals... so by that logic then I guess Marner is a bust? Since he only has one goal in three games and his price tag is much higher then Kampf or Mikheyev... It doesn't matter who is scoring as long as the team is scoring. People need to relax and stop complaining about every little thing. It's funny how people who have never made it anywhere in terms or playing hockey or people that don't even play hockey want to talk shit about a guy who actually plays hockey at the highest level. Everyone on these forums is a professional online hockey player.

+1

Depth players aren't allowed to do anything without it creating drama. You need all the chips to align to win a cup. If that means David f***ing Kampf outplays JT sometimes just shutup and enjoy it.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Every free agent is overpaid that's the point of free agency, everyone get's more then they would normally get because other teams are also interested and willing to pay the price.

The depth has been the reason why we are up 2-1 right now and if it wasn't for Simmonds we might even be up 3-0 right now. As long as he's doing other things and helping the team win in other areas of the game (which he is) that's all that matters. Kampf has two goals, Mikheyev has two goals... so by that logic then I guess Marner is a bust? Since he only has one goal in three games and his price tag is much higher then Kampf or Mikheyev... It doesn't matter who is scoring as long as the team is scoring. People need to relax and stop complaining about every little thing. It's funny how people who have never made it anywhere playing hockey or people that don't even play hockey want to talk shit about a guy who actually plays hockey at the highest level. Everyone on these forums is a professional online hockey player.

1. Simmonds is part of the depth.

2. Holy false equivalency, man. Marner is fine and one of the best players in the league.

 

[NJG]

1. Simmonds is part of the depth.

2. Holy false equivalency, man. Marner is fine and one of the best players in the league.

1. Your clearly dumb.
2. I never said Simmonds wasn't a depth player. I simply said he's the main reason why we lost game two.
3. I never said Marner wasn't good or a bust, I was referring to the other guys logic on things.
4. Maybe you should learn to read and not be illiterate.

 

[BraveCanadian]

1. Your clearly dumb.
2. I never said Simmonds wasn't a depth player. I simply said he's the main reason why we lost game two.
3. I never said Marner wasn't good or a bust, I was referring to the other guys logic on things.
4. Maybe you should learn to read and not be illiterate.

Throws around childish straw man arguments, and is an internet tough guy when you get called on it. GG bud.

 

[Aashir]

Point has 1 goal in 3 games and is a -5. Stamkos has only 1 assist and is a -4. All of Hedman's points came in just ONE game. But there's something wrong with JT and WN.

Leaf fans are the worst.

….still more points then mr.-2 william Nylander and his 0
Points

 

[NJG]

Throws around childish straw man arguments, and is an internet tough guy when you get called on it. GG bud.

Your low IQ is showing once again. Nothing childish about it, maybe you feel it was childish but that doesn't make it childish. No, not an internet tough guy just simply telling someone the truth that they clearly aren't a very strong reader and might suffer from illiteracy. I was trying to help you... maybe take a class or something? Pick up a book?

 

[All Mod Cons]

1. Your clearly dumb.
2. I never said Simmonds wasn't a depth player. I simply said he's the main reason why we lost game two.
3. I never said Marner wasn't good or a bust, I was referring to the other guys logic on things.
4. Maybe you should learn to read and not be illiterate.

That first point is phenomenal. Congrats

 

[NJG]

That first point is phenomenal. Congrats

I would of said point one and four. But I'll take it.

 

[Not My Tempo]

Playoffs are long if you make it all the way. Just because he hasn't scored doesn't mean anything right now... yes it would be better if he was scoring but he's still a good player and still does good things even when he's not scoring. He wins us possession just off of how good he is on faceoffs alone. I'm sure Tampa had guy's who weren't scoring right away or that got into slumps when they won two cups. People need to relax it's three games in.

Yup. Idk why it’s in my head but I remember Toews looked terrible in the first row rounds in 2013. He turned it up in rounds 3 and 4 though and helped the team win the cup. How many people nowadays give a shit that he didn’t show up against the Minnesota Wild?

We’re up in the series and have looked like the better team for the majority of it. Let’s wait until we lose before all the negativity.