Tribute John Tavares Discussion Thread

[Boxscore]

I think getting a full 60 or so games of Tavares as captain to me makes me feel that Morgan Rielly is truly the one who deserved and deserves the C. He may not be super emotional either, or super physical, and is having a bad year...but he is far more competitive and I imagine vocal in the dressing room...and when you hear his responses to the media, while...still guarded and professional he comes across as way less cliche. Like, Tavares postgame media yesterday was like...he has no idea what to do.

Rielly or Matthews 100% should have been named captain. The Leafs had one of the best, young, up-and-coming teams in the NHL and they decided to become obsessed with John Tavares and made their own kids take a back seat--paying him huge money then making it "his team." The Leafs should have given the C to one of their homegrown players who was there longer than a season. Honestly, what has John Tavares accomplished as a player that warranted him becoming "the franchise" overnight? He never won squat with the Isles--they were mostly a losing team. He has zero championships and hardly any playoff experience. He hasn't won Art Rosses, Harts or Selkes. The Leafs somehow made Tavares out to be prime Crosby, Toews or Getzlaf... I never understood that. You are right--Rielly would have been a much better choice as captain--at least it would send a message that this team still belongs to the young, homegrown core. Instead everything turned into the "Tavares show."

 

[LeafsNation75]

Rielly or Matthews 100% should have been named captain. The Leafs had one of the best, young, up-and-coming teams in the NHL and they decided to become obsessed with John Tavares and made their own kids take a back seat--paying him huge money then making it "his team." The Leafs should have given the C to one of their homegrown players who was there longer than a season. Honestly, what has John Tavares accomplished as a player that warranted him becoming "the franchise" overnight? He never won squat with the Isles--they were mostly a losing team. He has zero championships and hardly any playoff experience. He hasn't won Art Rosses, Harts or Selkes. The Leafs somehow made Tavares out to be prime Crosby, Toews or Getzlaf... I never understood that. You are right--Rielly would have been a much better choice as captain--at least it would send a message that this team still belongs to the young, homegrown core. Instead everything turned into the "Tavares show."

Like I said before it's not Tavares fault the Islanders were horrible for the majority of the time he was there.

Plus I also mentioned how he lost the Art Ross Trophy to Jamie Benn on the final night of the 2015 regular season despite having 2 point scored himself, it was Benn who scored 4 points and won it by scoring 87 points to Tavares 86 points. So that was beyond his control.

Tavares was also a finalist for the Hart Trophy in 2013 and 2015 both times finishing 3rd. Yes I know he didn't win it, still he obviously played well enough to be nominated.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I just don't get how people can blame this on Tavares. We got stomped with Gilmour and Clark as captains, Sundin lead a largely lifeless Leafs team in the mid 90s. These are the captain's people want (and understably so)

Tavares gives a great effort nightly and leads by example. Sadly not many follow suit

Last nights loss deserves to be blamed on the whole team and not just Tavares.

At least Tavares scored on the first shot against Ayres to make it a 4-2 game. When it was 4-3 no one would have predicted what happened next with how they played in the 3rd period.

 

[Gallagbi]

Last nights loss deserves to be blamed on the whole team and not just Tavares.

At least Tavares scored on the first shot against Ayres to make it a 4-2 game. When it was 4-3 no one would have predicted what happened next with how they played in the 3rd period.

Sadly it wasn't unpredictable. I decided to get some things done around the house to start the third fearing this'd happen. Decided to follow along on my phone so I knew what I was in for when I turned the game back on.

 

[LeafsNation75]

B) We are in a salary cap era, which changes everything. If signing Gilmour, Clark or Sundin meant you didn't have any more money left over to round out your team, they ALL would have came under much more scrutiny.

It was reported how San Jose was offering Tavares 7 years and $13.5 million AAV, compared to the 7 years and $11 million AAV Toronto signed him for. So if Tavares wanted to he could have told Dubas what San Jose was willing to pay him and he needed to match it, however he did not do anything like that.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Wilson wouldn’t discuss San Jose’s pitch, but word is he told Tavares, “You are the final piece for us.” It has also been rumoured (but never confirmed) that the Sharks were willing to pay $13.5 million per year for seven years. “That was a confident group,” one source says. “They felt they were the best option for John, and they showed it.”

John Tavares, Sharks face off with no regrets over how free agency unfolded - Sportsnet.ca

They were even willing to go as high as $91-million to sign No. 91, which is $2-million more per season on a seven-year deal than he ended up getting from the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[Stephen]

Sadly it wasn't unpredictable. I decided to get some things done around the house to start the third fearing this'd happen. Decided to follow along on my phone so I knew what I was in for when I turned the game back on.

It's actually a good rule of thumb that when any opposition goalie gets hurt, and you think the Leafs are going to be poised to take advantage, it will always blow up in their face. This isn't cynicism. Two examples came to mind when Ayres came in.

-Nick Kypreos runs Grant Fuhr in the first round of the 1996 playoffs against St. Louis. Jon Casey steps in and they beat the Leafs.

-Dominik Hasek gets hurt in the 1999 conference finals. You'd think this would pave the way for a Leafs finals appearance. Enter Dwayne Roloson.

 

[Duffman955]

Doesn't feel like hes a captain

Last year he was 10 times more intense.

I guess priorities shift when you have a kid.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Rielly or Matthews 100% should have been named captain. The Leafs had one of the best, young, up-and-coming teams in the NHL and they decided to become obsessed with John Tavares and made their own kids take a back seat--paying him huge money then making it "his team." The Leafs should have given the C to one of their homegrown players who was there longer than a season. Honestly, what has John Tavares accomplished as a player that warranted him becoming "the franchise" overnight? He never won squat with the Isles--they were mostly a losing team. He has zero championships and hardly any playoff experience. He hasn't won Art Rosses, Harts or Selkes. The Leafs somehow made Tavares out to be prime Crosby, Toews or Getzlaf... I never understood that. You are right--Rielly would have been a much better choice as captain--at least it would send a message that this team still belongs to the young, homegrown core. Instead everything turned into the "Tavares show."

Reilly and Matthews are still assistants and are supposed to be part of the Leadership group...so I'm not sure how we would use this time to dump on Tavares while not recognizing Matthews/Reilly are definitely part of this leadership failing if you're going to look at letters on the shirt so much.

Especially so when i watch Marner crying in front of the camera for about the 3rd time this year and Monotone Matthews look like he hates the guts of every local beat guy around him. Tavares looks like George Patton in a media scrum compared to those guys.

One more point...last year our guys who had letters were Reilly, Hainsey, Tavares and Marleau...and we had no leadership issues. Tavares already had a letter. Maybe...just maybe... giving the newly minted 21 year old children and Justin Bieber fans an A was the bigger mistake and something that should be equally discussed if we want to start using Tavares' letter against him (personally I don't get too caught up on letters on the jerseys and I think it's irrelevant to the Leafs issues).

 

[LeafsNation75]

Reilly and Matthews are still assistants and are supposed to be part of the Leadership group...so I'm not sure how we would use this time to dump on Tavares while not recognizing Matthews/Reilly are definitely part of this leadership failing if you're going to look at letters on the shirt so much.

Especially so when i watch Marner crying in front of the camera for about the 3rd time this year and Monotone Matthews look like he hates the guts of every local beat guy around him. Tavares looks like George Patton in a media scrum compared to those guys.

One more point...last year our guys who had letters were Reilly, Hainsey, Tavares and Marleau...and we had no leadership issues. Tavares already had a letter. Maybe...just maybe... giving the newly minted 21 year old children and Justin Bieber fans an A was the bigger mistake and something that should be equally discussed if we want to start using Tavares' letter against him (personally I don't get too caught up on letters on the jerseys and I think it's irrelevant to the Leafs issues).

I'm not going to start complaining about the leadership from Matthews, Marner and Rielly. However I will I agree that if someone wants to question Tavares leadership because he's the captain, shouldn't the same things be said about them because they wear an A on their jerseys, so are just as much leaders the way Tavares is even though the C is on his jersey.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not going to start complaining about the leadership from Matthews, Marner and Rielly. However I will I agree that if someone wants to question Tavares leadership because he's the captain, shouldn't the same things be said about them because they have A's on their jerseys and just because Tavares wears the C means it's 100% on him.

Well, in the past week the heat has been turned up significantly on all of the Big 4 for slightly different but similar reasons. It’s quite apparent that there is a leadership vacuum in the room. With a bunch of 22 year olds you can chalk that up to inexperience but with Tavares I think it’s just a case of a big name guy being overrated.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well, in the past week the heat has been turned up significantly on all of the Big 4 for slightly different but similar reasons. It’s quite apparent that there is a leadership vacuum in the room. With a bunch of 22 year olds you can chalk that up to inexperience but with Tavares I think it’s just a case of a big name guy being overrated.

Technically among the Big 4 Nylander is not an alternate captain, because they didn't put the A on his jersey. So do you consider him among the leadership with Tavares as the captain, then you have Matthews, Marner and Rielly as the alternate captains.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It’s quite apparent that there is a leadership vacuum in the room.

No, that's not apparent.

 

[Stephen]

No, that's not apparent.

I suppose different people process things at different speeds.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I suppose different people process things at different speeds.

My processing isn't the issue; no need for personal attacks. Your skewed perception of Tavares and your claims backed up by zero evidence are the issue.

 

[6ix]

Worst captain in leafs history. Never seen him get mad or impose his will in a game. Matthews has more hits than him.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I was as amped as anyone when we signed JT. In retrospect, it may have been a mistake, and it's not JT's fault.

I didn't anticipate that Nylander, Matthews and Marner would have milked every last penny out of Dubas as a result of JT's signing.

If we could turn back the clock, and we had been able to sign the big 3 to reasonable contracts, and kept Kadri as the 2C, we might be a more balanced team today with the extra cap space we would have had available.

Nonetheless, the problems with this team run deeper than that. We lack heart and soul.

 

[Chungo2]

I might be totally wrong but this team wasn’t ready to get rid of their older leadership of Hainsey, Bozak, Kadri and the list goes on.

I feel we got too young to quick and the team isn’t ready for the leadership that was thrust onto them.

We are more comparable to the Caps than the Penguins in that it’ll take a few years before we become a true contender and these kids mature.

I can’t blame 20 year olds for not being leaders yet. Tavares is a leader but he’s not the type to hold people accountable. He’s a leader by example type.

Wrong?

 

[Stephen]

My processing isn't the issue; no need for personal attacks. Your skewed perception of Tavares and your claims backed up by zero evidence are the issue.

If some people are not recognizing a lack of leadership based on exhibits:

a) standings
b) the Leafs players admitting they have motivational and maturity issues.
c) the coach calling out the group for maturity and effort issues and the "embarrassment" that is part of their work process.
d) GM coming out and speaking about maturity and effort issues this afternoon.
e) don't see a link between effort, maturity, motivation and the role of leadership in promoting those traits.

Then I can only come to the conclusion that they are processing things at a different speed. Or they have a blatant agenda that tries to cover for the GM's decisions because they like a certain brand of hockey that doesn't work. Or analytical tools that run aground in real life.

You decide.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I might be totally wrong but this team wasn’t ready to get rid of their older leadership of Hainsey, Bozak, Kadri and the list goes on.

I feel we got too young to quick and the team isn’t ready for the leadership that was thrust onto them.

We are more comparable to the Caps than the Penguins in that it’ll take a few years before we become a true contender and these kids mature.

I can’t blame 20 year olds for not being leaders yet. Tavares is a leader but he’s not the type to hold people accountable. He’s a leader by example type.

Wrong?

I don't know...they keep calling Tavares a SUPERSTAR...a guy who never cracked 90 points in his career. To say he is a very good player ...I can live with...but when they compare him to the elite of the league...wow...he can't defend worth a lick because he is Lucic level slow and the intensity he has is pretty low compared to a lot of upper echelon guys too.

This team really needs someone to grab it by the collar and drag them into the fight...I just don't see anyone really doing it. Matthews is closest to doing that...but it's still a problem. That's why we give up goals in bunches...there isn't a clear cut leader to calm everyone down after the first couple go in.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If some people are not recognizing a lack of leadership based on exhibits:

a) standings
b) the Leafs players admitting they have motivational and maturity issues.
c) the coach calling out the group for maturity and effort issues and the "embarrassment" that is part of their work process.
d) GM coming out and speaking about maturity and effort issues this afternoon.
e) don't see a link between effort, maturity, motivation and the role of leadership in promoting those traits.

Then I can only come to the conclusion that they are processing things at a different speed. Or they have a blatant agenda that tries to cover for the GM's decisions because they like a certain brand of hockey that doesn't work. Or analytical tools that run aground in real life.

You decide.

Very well said!!...I'll take b) and d) for $500 please.

 

[Chungo2]

I don't know...they keep calling Tavares a SUPERSTAR...a guy who never cracked 90 points in his career. To say he is a very good player ...I can live with...but when they compare him to the elite of the league...wow...he can't defend worth a lick because he is Lucic level slow and the intensity he has is pretty low compared to a lot of upper echelon guys too.

This team really needs someone to grab it by the collar and drag them into the fight...I just don't see anyone really doing it. Matthews is closest to doing that...but it's still a problem. That's why we give up goals in bunches...there isn't a clear cut leader to calm everyone down after the first couple go in.

I’m not the right guy to say he’s worth his money and hindsight is 20/20. If we had the chance to do something like this again, I wouldn’t hesitate.

I agree that this team needs an accountability guy or 2. The players need to be the first to fix the problem. The best teams have leaders that will hold people feet to the fire. I agree that the leafs need probably 2-3 players like this.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Worst captain in leafs history. Never seen him get mad or impose his will in a game. Matthews has more hits than him.

This is hyperbole. Tavares was never that type of player throughout his career, and it's unfair to criticize him for it now.

He has imposed his will in games many times - not with big hits, but on the scoreboard and battling in the corners. He also never takes a shift off, which is more than I can say for many of our players.

 

[Dekes For Days]

a) standings
b) the Leafs players admitting they have motivational and maturity issues.
c) the coach calling out the group for maturity and effort issues and the "embarrassment" that is part of their work process.
d) GM coming out and speaking about maturity and effort issues this afternoon.

None of these things that you have misrepresented equal a "leadership vaccuum", that you claimed was apparent. These things have been said about teams many times before as they go through bad stretches; they just aren't blown up in the Toronto media machine.

Then I can only come to the conclusion that they are processing things at a different speed.

It's essentially calling me dumb, which is a personal attack that would see many others infracted. As would saying the following:

Or they have a blatant agenda that tries to cover for the GM's decisions because they like a certain brand of hockey that doesn't work.

There is no agenda. Just because you falsely think something doesn't work, it doesn't make it true. I want to win. The best way to do that is to not make stupid knee-jerk decisions based on improper evaluations of the team.

Or analytical tools that run aground in real life.

The analytical tools don't run aground in real life. Nothing saves you from a bad goaltender.

 

[Havoc]

This guy trains hard and perfects his craft any chance he gets.

He didn't just randomly go from elite to average.

His thumb is probably still messed up. He can't make a pass or pick spots like the normal Tavares does.

Just an overall bad season for us where nothing went right with the exception of Matthews scoring and Nylander re-finding his game.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This is hyperbole. Tavares was never that type of player throughout his career, and it's unfair to criticize him for it now.

He has imposed his will in games many times - not with big hits, but on the scoreboard and battling in the corners. He also never takes a shift off, which is more than I can say for many of our players.

When Tavares signed I don't recall anyone saying he was brought in for his grit and the way he can hit other players.

I understand some people want to give him criticism based on his play this season. However it was only last season he had 47 goals and 88 points which were career highs and totals he never had in 9 years with the Islanders. He's still on pace for over 30 goals since he's currently at 24 right now and he hasn't forgot how to play.