Value of: John Marino

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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If the devils are really big fans of Pesce specifically, I don't see any reason why they may not just keep 4 RHD.

I still think that they like Marino back there.

I think the main reason would be, that trying to run 4 RH Shooting defencemen at the same time is very dumb. Always creates confusion and awkwardness and stupid gaffes because they're just not natural or used to it. It just ends up degrading the quality of play for both guys stuck in that weird mongrel pairing. It also really hurts things like your PK...especially when only one of the two natural LHD remaining actually plays shorthanded.


Weegar is basically a unicorn. Literally the only modern example i can recall of a Righty shooting D actually performing sustainably at a high level over any length of time on their off side.

It's just a silly way to build your blueline. Especially since you're paying a premium for a RHD. To not even use that "special quality", or leverage it into a better balanced defence corps is goofy.
 

Forge

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I think the main reason would be, that trying to run 4 RH Shooting defencemen at the same time is very dumb. Always creates confusion and awkwardness and stupid gaffes because they're just not natural or used to it. It just ends up degrading the quality of play for both guys stuck in that weird mongrel pairing. It also really hurts things like your PK...especially when only one of the two natural LHD remaining actually plays shorthanded.


Weegar is basically a unicorn. Literally the only modern example i can recall of a Righty shooting D actually performing sustainably at a high level over any length of time on their off side.

It's just a silly way to build your blueline. Especially since you're paying a premium for a RHD. To not even use that "special quality", or leverage it into a better balanced defence corps is goofy.

I mean, Pesce played his off hand when he played with Faulk in Carolina and they played at a high level together, so it's not like he can't do it or doesn't have experience with it.

I'm not sure that Pesce is going to be the primary puck mover on any defensive pairing he's on. I'm just not sure it's nearly as big of a deal as people want to to make it out to be.

Ultimately, we will see what happens, but I feel like the most likely outcomes are Pesce is added, Marino stays or Pesce is simply not added.

In third place, I'd have Pesce is added, Marino is traded.
 
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biturbo19

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I mean, Pesce played his off hand when he played with Faulk in Carolina and they played at a high level together, so it's not like he can't do it or doesn't have experience with it.

I'm not sure that Pesce is going to be the primary puck mover on any defensive pairing he's on. I'm just not sure it's nearly as big of a deal as people want to to make it out to be.

Ultimately, we will see what happens, but I feel like the most likely outcomes are Pesce is added, Marino stays or Pesce is simply not added.

In third place, I'd have Pesce is added, Marino is traded.

I mean, that's fair i guess. One year like half a decade ago, he played with Faulk a little less than half the time, and a little more LD as well. I just really wouldn't count on that whatsoever. More of an anomalous circumstances thing.

Personally, i think it's actually significantly more important than most fans seem to make it out to be. Idgaf about LHD playing RD if they're comfortable there. Lots of them are. It's really over the top when coaches are overly sticklers about that. But i think there are a lot of very good reasons that coaches will only ever play two Righties together on Defence as an absolute last resort. And why it's limiting in terms of roster construction to overload with them like that.

It's not really purely about "puck moving" per se. Lots of great LH shooting puck movers are actually better on their off side. But it's something that takes time and experience to build up that comfort level with...which is something that very few RH shooting D ever go through, due to scarcity at pretty much every level. Though as a caveat...if there's any country's defencemen who might have RH experience playing their off side, it's the US where right handed people shooting right is far more common than anywhere else.

I'd say it's almost more important when it's a guy like Pesce who is more of an "easy out" type of defenceman rather than an aggressive primary puck mover. That's where it's even more important for it to become firmly ingrained that all of those "easy outlets" are going to be exactly where they expect them relative to their positioning on the ice. Where it's almost muscle memory for those off the glass and out, up the boards, rim arounds type clearing and pressure alleviating plays. Even just basic things like those D-to-D exchanges...suddenly you're asking a less than amazing puckhandler to start making and receiving all of those little routine passes on his backhand.

More often than not, it creates stupid bobbles and mistakes on simple routine plays that wouldn't otherwise happen. It also tends to lead to things like "drifting" positionally. Where you get "you take it, whose got it" miscommunications. Stupid little mistakes that aren't typical of the player, but pop up when they're uncomfortable.

But especially, it's limiting to things like how you can set up your PK to attack and defend lanes. It changes all the accessible angles and lanes...and having only one LH shooting PK defenceman in your lineup just inherently limits your options there. It's also one of the biggest things where LH shooters playing RD isn't a big deal to me...but having all LH shooting D can start to become a problem.



The biggest thing to me though, is that if the Devils land Pesce (probably not as much of a given as everyone including myself are taking it here)...the likelihood is that because of his RH Shot...the Devils could take advantage of scarcity and the "premium value" of RHD to either upgrade at LHD where they clearly need help more anyway...or at least generate some "surplus value" on a comparable replacement (maybe even via UFA) while still leaving them assets to go out and get whatever else they want to upgrade in the lineup as well. While still having 3 solid RHD in Dougie/Pesce/Nemec who will eat up every second of those minutes you can throw at them.

But this is all probably putting the cart before the horse. Far from a certainty that they land Pesce, even if the nature of these sudden and compelling rumors out of left field suggest it may be happening.
 
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WTFMAN99

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Jun 17, 2009
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With the Devils apparent interest in Brett Pesce, John Marino could be the guy dealt to make room for him.
What is his value? He's a top 4 RHD with 3 more years at 4.4 per season and no trade protection until next week.

Devils are likely looking for a LHD, top six forward with size or bottom 6 depth. Probably not interested in draft picks or non NHL ready prospects.

Kampf
Robertson
NSH 5th 2024

?

Feel free to counter if you like.
 

Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
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maybe something around Kulak and McLeod for Marino
I think the Devils aim higher like a one for one swap for Marchment or Coleman or Saad.

Fitzgerald seems to always look to do his players a solid, so I highly doubt he sends Marino to Edmonton, especially since he didn’t want to sign there in the first place.
 

dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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Kampf
Robertson
NSH 5th 2024

?

Feel free to counter if you like.
Kampf+Robertson+5th for future considerations

I think the Devils aim higher like a one for one swap for Marchment or Coleman or Saad.

Fitzgerald seems to always look to do his players a solid, so I highly doubt he sends Marino to Edmonton, especially since he didn’t want to sign there in the first place.
I would be interested in Ryan Mcleod tho.
 

dgibb10

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There's zero chance the Devils would bring in Ryan given everything happening with his brother.
Yeah I don't doubt that, but from a hockey perspective his speed and 2 way play would be a pretty perfect replacement for the hockey we lost with Michael gone
 
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dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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Highly interested from ANA. What do you want in return?
I'd say start with the edmonton 1st and then whatever sweetener you think would be enough to win a bidding war against I'd expect like all of the following teams potentially


Toronto, Vancouver, Utah, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Colorado, Dallas, Nashville, Sabres, Detroit, Ottawa. Carolina, Minnesota, Florida
 

McDuffz88

HIRE BERUBE!!!
Sep 18, 2019
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Wasn't he a healthy scratch fairly late in the season?

Regardless, I would still trust Marino in the playoffs and important minutes in general over Nemec. That's all that should matter to the Devils.
Nemec was by far our best defenseman for half the year in his rookie season. He wasn't supposed to be on the roster yet but he stole a spot. Not only stole it but earned himself top minutes and looked excellent. Green only sat him because Green is an idiot coach. It was argued at the time it was Luke who was the one worthy of being scratched. 0 chance Nemec goes down to the AHL. In my mind he's already a top 4 defender as a rookie. Another year or 2 and he's a bonafide #1.
 
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SmokeyDuck

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Jul 27, 2010
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I'd say start with the edmonton 1st and then whatever sweetener you think would be enough to win a bidding war against I'd expect like all of the following teams potentially


Toronto, Vancouver, Utah, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Colorado, Dallas, Nashville, Sabres, Detroit, Ottawa. Carolina, Minnesota, Florida
Doubt the 31st is on the table but I believe the 35th? (I think) could be had, as well as a lhd or lw, perhaps even a center like Lundestrom.
 

dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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Doubt the 31st is on the table but I believe the 35th? (I think) could be had, as well as a lhd or lw, perhaps even a center like Lundestrom.
Then, at least imo, I don't see any real motivation to make that kind of move unless Pesce is taking a massive discount for some reason (5.5 mill or under with reasonable term)
 
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bringbacktheskate604

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Jul 20, 2022
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Because good teams typically improve their team even in areas of strength to get better.

Not only do we upgrade on him but we get a free asset by trading him !?? Seems like excellent asset management to me
Devil's fans obviously will see it that way. But if it's Marino they trade,the optics look like the devil's are having buyers remorse after a disappointing season last year.
One devil's fan just claimed Marino is basically the top of #2 RHD's in the league yet the devil's feel that paying someone older, prone to injury, and no idea how good he will be away from the team that betters pretty much every dman, more term and more money.

That's a lot of risk for not that much of an upgrade.

It's also telling that the Canes are willing to let him walk.

If I'm wrong I'll gladly own it but Pesce feels like this year's trap contract
 

NjdevilfanJim

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Zadarov will get overpaid but he brings added benefits to his play with his physical play.....However is probably lower end second pair excellent third pair that is going to get paid at second pair level 6 plus ....Rather have him as he is a lefty and adds pop to the lineup can always get rid of the contract down the line...
 

Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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Maybe they could still be interested in Johnson? Considering they just traded Bahl.
I've thought about this as well.

I've also thought about a LD/RD swap for similar age players

Now, if you want to throw in resigning guys like Tanev (but for how much longer), Walker I'd take them as arguments, and of course montour is levels above
That's factoring in signing for free vs acquiring costs
 
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dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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I've thought about this as well.

I've also thought about a LD/RD swap for similar age players


That's factoring in signing for free vs acquiring costs
I expect both walker and tanev to get more than 5 mill AAV for sure
 

MartyOwns

thank you shero
Apr 1, 2007
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Straight up for Coleman at 50%?
giphy-downsized.gif
 

GCK

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I'd say start with the edmonton 1st and then whatever sweetener you think would be enough to win a bidding war against I'd expect like all of the following teams potentially


Toronto, Vancouver, Utah, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Colorado, Dallas, Nashville, Sabres, Detroit, Ottawa. Carolina, Minnesota, Florida
Take Ottawa out. Marino does not fit the profile management is looking for from all accounts.
 

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