Player Discussion Joel Eriksson Ek: The 2nd Act

[thestonedkoala]

Ek never really played with Brown. His 3 most common linemates were Foligno, Kunin, and Greenway. He played over 200 minutes with all 3. Coyle and Niederreiter were next on the list. Ek wasn't the guy getting stuck with ****ty players, he was the ****ty player others were getting stuck with.

Greenway the rookie? Kunin, who lost most of the season due to a leg injury? Foligno who's career high is 8 goals? And Coyle and Nieder? Both of them that never lived up to their potentials and were shipped out? Maybe put some skilled guys with Ek and he wouldn't look like crap.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Foligno has scored 10 and 13 goals in the NHL.

Coyle and Nino, while maybe not living up to their potentials, were/are more than skilled enough to not look like crap with, if you're playing worth a damn.

 

[BagHead]

It seems to be a little bit of both sides of the argument. JEE didn't look good at all while getting fewer minutes. He suddenly looked better when getting more minutes, with better linemates, but even then he didn't exactly explode. He just looked like an average bottom 6 NHLer being pushed into a 2nd line role.He gets to the net and puts shots on it, but seems to lack the ability to actually get it past the goalie. That sentence describes lots of bottom 6 players.

I will say that I don't understand why anyone wouldn't like this contract though; it's short so we're not stuck with him if he doesn't pan out, and it's cheap because he hasn't really proven himself to be worth much money, yet. A short, cheap contract for a bottom 6 center. That's pretty good? I mean, it's exactly the kind of contract that overpays the kid by 500k because he's young and may improve (and there is value in potential, as players and agents know), but if he doesn't pan out we're not stuck overpaying him that for a very long time, just two seasons. The place to draw the line in the sand on overpaying players is not at 22 year olds who still have some potential to improve, it's at 28 year old bottom 6 players who have no room/time to improve.

 

[2Pair]

It seems to be a little bit of both sides of the argument. JEE didn't look good at all while getting fewer minutes. He suddenly looked better when getting more minutes, with better linemates, but even then he didn't exactly explode. He just looked like an average bottom 6 NHLer being pushed into a 2nd line role.He gets to the net and puts shots on it, but seems to lack the ability to actually get it past the goalie. That sentence describes lots of bottom 6 players.

I will say that I don't understand why anyone wouldn't like this contract though; it's short so we're not stuck with him if he doesn't pan out, and it's cheap because he hasn't really proven himself to be worth much money, yet. A short, cheap contract for a bottom 6 center. That's pretty good? I mean, it's exactly the kind of contract that overpays the kid by 500k because he's young and may improve (and there is value in potential, as players and agents know), but if he doesn't pan out we're not stuck overpaying him that for a very long time, just two seasons. The place to draw the line in the sand on overpaying players is not at 22 year olds who still have some potential to improve, it's at 28 year old bottom 6 players who have no room/time to improve.

You say that, but then all you can really do to defend the contract is point out that it only sucks a little bit? All of the points you made would still be true if Ek was making $800K- $1M.

The narrative that he played well when he was given extended minutes needs to put to bed as well. He averaged close to 16 minutes a night over the last 22 games. He scored 7 points in those games.

 

[BagHead]

You say that, but then all you can really do to defend the contract is point out that it only sucks a little bit? All of the points you made would still be true if Ek was making $800K- $1M.

The narrative that he played well when he was given extended minutes needs to put to bed as well. He averaged close to 16 minutes a night over the last 22 games. He scored 7 points in those games.

Sucks a little bit? No, that's not what I meant to argue. My argument is that it's market value, and completely expected. Maybe market value sucks? And as I said about those 22 games, he played better, but not well. I agree about your point about that narrative.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

You say that, but then all you can really do to defend the contract is point out that it only sucks a little bit? All of the points you made would still be true if Ek was making $800K- $1M.

The narrative that he played well when he was given extended minutes needs to put to bed as well. He averaged close to 16 minutes a night over the last 22 games. He scored 7 points in those games.

half his points came in less games with more minutes? idk that may be a sign. depends how you look at it. he is not a scoring machine, yet.

 

[2Pair]

Sucks a little bit? No, that's not what I meant to argue. My argument is that it's market value, and completely expected. Maybe market value sucks? And as I said about those 22 games, he played better, but not well. I agree about your point about that narrative.

It's not market value though.

 

[2Pair]

half his points came in less games with more minutes? idk that may be a sign. depends how you look at it. he is not a scoring machine, yet.

7 points in 22 games is on pace for 26 points in a season. That would be a sign that you don't ever want to have to play that player significant minutes.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

7 points in 22 games is on pace for 26 points in a season. That would be a sign that you don't ever want to have to play that player significant minutes.

and 7 points in 36 equals how many less points in a season? as I said its all how you wanna look at it. he looked a lot better as a 2nd line c than he did as 3rd or 4th. the points don't make it seem right to put him there I agree but he did look better.

 

[P10p]

Ek is still growing, guys only 22. Look at how much Granlund progressed at that age. These are still kids learning to play against men.

 

[2Pair]

and 7 points in 36 equals how many less points in a season? as I said its all how you wanna look at it. he looked a lot better as a 2nd line c than he did as 3rd or 4th. the points don't make it seem right to put him there I agree but he did look better.

Doesn't really matter how you look at it, the player that Ek was last season isn't a player that you would ever want in your lineup.

I'm fully on board with the idea of keeping him around to see if he can become an asset, but I can't get behind the idea that he's already a good 3rd liner. And the talk about playing him in the top 6 is beyond ridiculous.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Doesn't really matter how you look at it, the player that Ek was last season isn't a player that you would ever want in your lineup.

I'm fully on board with the idea of keeping him around to see if he can become an asset, but I can't get behind the idea that he's already a good 3rd liner. And the talk about playing him in the top 6 is beyond ridiculous.

ill agree to disagree. I like his game and am perfectly fine with him as 2/3C. he will never be a 1C but he could be a quality shut down C in the future.

 

[2Pair]

ill agree to disagree. I like his game and am perfectly fine with him as 2/3C. he will never be a 1C but he could be a quality shut down C in the future.

What do you like about his game?

 

[thestonedkoala]

ill agree to disagree. I like his game and am perfectly fine with him as 2/3C. he will never be a 1C but he could be a quality shut down C in the future.

He absolutely dominated in his time in the AHL. I don't know if he is eligible, but maybe a full season in the AHL might be the best thing for him. 9 points in 9 games, 4 goals and 5 assists. Not bad. He needs confidence and some time to develop his offensive game.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

What do you like about his game?

i like his defensive game, he does play heavy when needed and he has the offensive instincts and shot to excel. it has not all come together yet and I do think putting him on the 4th line for whatever reason didn't help that development. his speed is not amazing but he has decent speed and his awareness is good. I have seen him more than most of our team pick off the goalies obvious pass up the boards after a dump in. it seems like such common sense but i don't see many others besides him actually go to that spot and pick it off. idk if that's somehow a system issue or people just not seeing that or he is just simply better at not letting it get through his body. iv seen good offensive plays just not come together as a linemate was not expecting a pass at that time or they simply did not want to go with him on the forecheck. if youre a defensive minded winger and your center is offensive minded it doesn't always mesh and that is why a checking role doesn't suite him as well as an offensive role.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

He absolutely dominated in his time in the AHL. I don't know if he is eligible, but maybe a full season in the AHL might be the best thing for him. 9 points in 9 games, 4 goals and 5 assists. Not bad. He needs confidence and some time to develop his offensive game.

I agree he looks great in the AHL, but 1st line there to 4th line in the NHL doesn't seem to translate his offensive skills properly. I agree not just gifting a kid top 6 minutes but he has paid his dues and he looked better in the 2nd line role towards the end of last season than he has in a bottom 6 role the last year or so when he came over here full time.

 

[57special]

Koivu wasn't even in the league until he was 22. Bottom line is that we have no idea what Ek's ceiling is. His floor is as a bottom six C, IMO. I'm hoping he can be a #2C who scores 45 points/yr, while playing excellent defense.

Expecting him to be a legit #1C is a bit much.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Koivu wasn't even in the league until he was 22. Bottom line is that we have no idea what Ek's ceiling is. His floor is as a bottom six C, IMO. I'm hoping he can be a #2C who scores 45 points/yr, while playing excellent defense.

Expecting him to be a legit #1C is a bit much.

who expects him to be a 1C?

 

[Digitalbooya]

who expects him to be a 1C?

I’ll be happy if he could be a decent 3C at this point.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I’ll be happy if he could be a decent 3C at this point.

I have full belief he can become a solid 2C. he is not up to par yet ill agree with but give him the spot and let him grow into it. he is good enough defensively we just need his offense to catch up.

 

[57special]

Like Coyle? Sure, I'd take that. Unlike Coyle, hopefully he won't be jerked back and forth between C and W.

People seem to often have unrealistic expectations of that a #3C is, though. I tend to think of a good #3C scoring about 35 pts. with good two way play.

 

[2Pair]

I have full belief he can become a solid 2C. he is not up to par yet ill agree with but give him the spot and let him grow into it. he is good enough defensively we just need his offense to catch up.

Ek has been given the 3C spot "to grow into " for 2 straight years. He has failed miserably both times

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Ek has been given the 3C spot "to grow into " for 2 straight years. He has failed miserably both times

cool. glad we can still disagree on this player.

 

[2Pair]

cool. glad we can still disagree on this player.

Sure makes a ton of sense to take a guy who can't handle the 3rd line and just hand him the 2nd line

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Soon enough, there isn't going to be anybody standing in his way. For better or worse, I guess.