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Blue Jays Discussion: Joe Panik traded for the reliever we need.

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To put in perspective how amazing Gabriel Moreno has been relative to age and level, here is the list of all hitters age-21 or under in AA/AAA ranked by wRC+. The next best hitter in AA (Riley Greene) is almost 60 pts below him.

upload_2021-6-25_1-2-37.jpeg
 
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canucksfan said:
I listen to the Around the Nest podcast. It’s where the announcers of the Jays minor league affiliates discuss how the teams is doing. Two weeks ago I think recall the Dunedin guy saying Martinez has been hitting the ball hard and it’s only a matter of time until his numbers start to show it.

Management must be so excited about their farm system. So many guys have gone beyond expectations. Pearson is the only one that has been below expectations and mostly they is due to injuries.
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It's not just Pearson, in general the pitching prospects have been banged up. Manoah and SWR have been healthy from the top ranked guys but after that.

Healthy: Van Eyk, Kloffenstein, Zeuch, Jimenez, Robberse,

Injured at points but has pitched (Innings pitched): Merryweather (4.1), Hatch (10.1), Rees (2.2), Palmer (9.1), Murphy (8.2), Frasso (5.0).

Yet to pitch: Pardinho, Murray, Zululeta.

Pearson is far from being the hardest hit by the injury bug in the system this year (27 innings pitched total), and its a season where we've been seeing a lot of injuries around baseball. He's the guy in the system getting the most attention about injuries because he's the highest profile and past history.


The consolation is, the hitting prospects, like you said, are doing incredibly well with the AA group of course leading the way.
 
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MLB Trade Deadline Big Board: Jim Bowden evaluates 75 trade candidates, from Max Scherzer to Trevor Story - The Athletic

7. Kyle Gibson, Rangers
Likelihood of a trade: High
WAR: 1.5

Gibson is having his best season by far, going 5-0 with a 2.17 ERA in 14 starts (83 innings pitched). Is it sustainable or a first-half aberration? Your guess is as good as mine, but he’s pitched well enough for contending teams to aggressively pursue him next month. The Blue Jays are the best potential trade fit.

8. Matthew Boyd, Tigers
Likelihood of a trade: High
WAR: 1.5

Boyd is having success this season by throwing more strikes, pitching to more contact and walking fewer batters. His 3.44 ERA and 3.75 FIP are career bests. The Blue Jays, Cardinals, Braves and Giants are the teams to watch with Boyd.
 
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I guess the logic could just be it's never a bad idea to have too many quality starters and they will have always have trade value if we need to trade someone for help elsewhere.

It's a unique year where our bullpen started so well, then completely fell apart, and is now crawling out of the toilet, so they might be taking a longer term approach with guys like Hatch who are still young and feel they can trade for better relief arms over the next month?
 
phillipmike said:
To put in perspective how amazing Gabriel Moreno has been relative to age and level, here is the list of all hitters age-21 or under in AA/AAA ranked by wRC+. The next best hitter in AA (Riley Greene) is almost 60 pts below him.

View attachment 449507
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The fact that he's doing this as a catcher is extra crazy. Including Moreno, only four under-22 catchers have even a single PA at AA/AAA. The next highest wRC+ among them is Ivan Herrera at 101.
 
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kb said:
So is Kevin Smith knocking on the door now? After tonight, his OPS is at .982, and he has cut his K rate significantly to 23.2%.
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He has to be, right? He's back to doing exactly what got him on the prospect radar to begin with a few years ago. I know they won't do it because... well, I won't try to figure out the reasons... but I wouldn't hesitate to DFA Panik and give Smith his spot any time now. Not that more reps in AAA will hurt him or anything, but he offers so much more than Panik (upside with the bat, actual defensive versatility/ability to play SS and 3B, a potential future of some kind with the team).

The Galvis situation makes me think maybe they have it in them to replace the "good veteran" guy, but making room for Bichette is a little different than Smith, so I'm doubtful.
 
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Baseball America just released a new Mock Draft - and they have us selecting HS RHP Andrew Painter.

The Jay Allen connection keeps getting mentioned as well, and it seems like there has been a shift towards more HS players being linked to us in general.


#19 Andrew Painter
Calvary Christian HS, Fort Lauderdale, Fla.RHP
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Notes:
We’ve heard the Blue Jays tied to two of the better high school players in Florida recently, in Painter and Jay Allen. Painter’s range seems quite wide, which is common for prep righthanders, but the Blue Jays sound like a team that has invested a lot of looks into him. This could be a nice addition to a farm system that has one of the best collections of bats in baseball. It wouldn’t be shocking to see Toronto add yet another catcher to that farm system either, with Ford or Joe Mack.
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Discoverer said:
He has to be, right? He's back to doing exactly what got him on the prospect radar to begin with a few years ago. I know they won't do it because... well, I won't try to figure out the reasons... but I wouldn't hesitate to DFA Panik and give Smith his spot any time now. Not that more reps in AAA will hurt him or anything, but he offers so much more than Panik (upside with the bat, actual defensive versatility/ability to play SS and 3B, a potential future of some kind with the team).

The Galvis situation makes me think maybe they have it in them to replace the "good veteran" guy, but making room for Bichette is a little different than Smith, so I'm doubtful.
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I wonder if they think Smith might get exposed to MLB pitching when he gets called up and they want to use him as a trade piece? Although, in June he is almost walking more than striking out.

I still can't see what role Panik serves on the team. They have Semien and Springer as the veteran presence. He can only play second and is fourth on the depth chart.
 
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canucksfan said:
I wonder if they think Smith might get exposed to MLB pitching when he gets called up and they want to use him as a trade piece? Although, in June he is almost walking more than striking out.

I still can't see what role Panik serves on the team. They have Semien and Springer as the veteran presence. He can only play second and is fourth on the depth chart.
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He makes a lot of sense as a trade candidate, absolutely. He's playing well enough that I assume there would be a decent amount of interest, he can likely step into the majors right away for a non-contending team, he's blocked from everyday play by Bo/Semien/Biggio, they already have a utility guy playing really well in Espinal, he doesn't have the ceiling of the young guys pushing up from AA and below... it's kind of a perfect storm for a trade.
 
metafour said:
Baseball America just released a new Mock Draft - and they have us selecting HS RHP Andrew Painter.

The Jay Allen connection keeps getting mentioned as well, and it seems like there has been a shift towards more HS players being linked to us in general.
Click to expand...
I think it's partially just a by-product of the draft makeup. The deepest talent pools this year are in college pitchers and high school hitters and pitchers, and that's largely what we've been connected to.

I'm not really a fan of the high school outfielders we've been connected to so far but, like Painter, Allen is a Florida area guy and we typically scout Florida hard due to proximity (This was mentioned during last year's draft where 3/5 of our picks played HS in Florida).

It could be that what the writers consider a lot of heat in to see a particular player, may just be a normal amount of heat for a team with close ties to the area doing their due diligence. That would at least explain the Jud Fabian and Tommy Mace rumors, which don't make a lot of sense. Then again, it might just be wishful thinking on my part.
 
Anthrax442 said:
Man, we should have kept Taijuan
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Hindsight is a real bitch sometimes especially with pitchers. Could easily have been Paxton. Free agent pitchers are rather annoying... feels like it’s gambling sometimes. Ray will end up being worth 25-30 million this year and Paxton is worth $0.
 
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Discoverer said:
He makes a lot of sense as a trade candidate, absolutely. He's playing well enough that I assume there would be a decent amount of interest, he can likely step into the majors right away for a non-contending team, he's blocked from everyday play by Bo/Semien/Biggio, they already have a utility guy playing really well in Espinal, he doesn't have the ceiling of the young guys pushing up from AA and below... it's kind of a perfect storm for a trade.
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This is why I'd rather trade Espinal. The guy has never had a season near where Smith has in the minors, both known as strong defensive players on the left side. Espinal in a SSS is actually hitting, trade him while the presumed value is high and hope Smith exceeds him.
 
hockeywiz542 said:
MLB Trade Deadline Big Board: Jim Bowden evaluates 75 trade candidates, from Max Scherzer to Trevor Story - The Athletic

7. Kyle Gibson, Rangers
Likelihood of a trade: High
WAR: 1.5

Gibson is having his best season by far, going 5-0 with a 2.17 ERA in 14 starts (83 innings pitched). Is it sustainable or a first-half aberration? Your guess is as good as mine, but he’s pitched well enough for contending teams to aggressively pursue him next month. The Blue Jays are the best potential trade fit.

8. Matthew Boyd, Tigers
Likelihood of a trade: High
WAR: 1.5

Boyd is having success this season by throwing more strikes, pitching to more contact and walking fewer batters. His 3.44 ERA and 3.75 FIP are career bests. The Blue Jays, Cardinals, Braves and Giants are the teams to watch with Boyd.
Click to expand...

These trades are nuts;

Pirates trade: Righty reliever Richard Rodríguez and first baseman Colin Moran
Blue Jays trade: Catcher Alejandro Kirk, left-handed pitcher Nick Allgeyer
----------
Rockies trade: Right-handed starting pitcher Jon Gray
Blue Jays trade: Infielder Kevin Smith, left-hander Anthony Kay, right-hander Sem Robberse
----------
Marlins trade: Lefty reliever Ross Detwiler, righty reliever Yimi García
Blue Jays trade: Catcher Riley Adams, right-handed pitcher Joey Murray
------------
Twins trade: Right-handed starting pitcher José Berríos
Blue Jays trade: Right-handed pitcher Nate Pearson
-------------
Rangers trade: Outfielder Joey Gallo, righty starter Kyle Gibson, righty reliever Ian Kennedy
Blue Jays trade: Infielder Cavan Biggio, outfielder Randal Grichuk, infielder Otto Lopez, right-handed pitcher Adam Kloffenstein, right-hander Elvis Luciano

The only one that isnt terrible is the Marlins trade and it isnt really a good one.
 
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I'm curious to when the jays are gonna try getting Vladdy/Bichette into long term deals. Have those two locked up probably makes FA spending a little bit more clear.
 
Morgs said:
This is why I'd rather trade Espinal. The guy has never had a season near where Smith has in the minors, both known as strong defensive players on the left side. Espinal in a SSS is actually hitting, trade him while the presumed value is high and hope Smith exceeds him.
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I'd keep both TBH. With a 26 man roster you have room for 13 position players. Vladdy, Springer, Bo, Biggio, Teo, Gurriel, Moreno, Kirk, and a 3rd baseman as your starting 9. Grichuk, Jansen, Espinal, and Smith off the bench. Eventually you may have to move on when Martin/Groshans move up if they're not the 3rd baseman from above, but Smith has 3 options yet and injuries happen too. He's definitely not forced out anytime soon. Grichuk will be a free agent by the time it gets too tight anyway so if Martin ends up playing outfield a large portion of the time then he doesn't even impact Smith.
 
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Tony Romo said:
I'm curious to when the jays are gonna try getting Vladdy/Bichette into long term deals. Have those two locked up probably makes FA spending a little bit more clear.
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I'm sure they've tried, but they both come from wealthy families being kids of great ball players themselves obviously, so there's no financial pressure on them to sell themselves cheaper. I would guess both are fine just going the arb route until free agency unless the Jays are willing to clearly overpay. That's not to say they're going to walk the first chance they get, just they don't really have a need to get something done now unless it's too good to turn down.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
I'd keep both TBH. With a 26 man roster you have room for 13 position players. Vladdy, Springer, Bo, Biggio, Teo, Gurriel, Moreno, Kirk, and a 3rd baseman as your starting 9. Grichuk, Jansen, Espinal, and Smith off the bench. Eventually you may have to move on when Martin/Groshans move up if they're not the 3rd baseman from above, but Smith has 3 options yet and injuries happen too. He's definitely not forced out anytime soon. Grichuk will be a free agent by the time it gets too tight anyway so if Martin ends up playing outfield a large portion of the time then he doesn't even impact Smith.
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I'm more stating if a team values them relatively equally in a trade I'd rather trade Espinal. I'd love having both off the bench. Plus defenders with some pop in their bat is way better than Charlie's son.
 
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