Post-Game Talk: Jets win a score fest

[RCAFguy]

In theory this is true but so far this year he looks nothing like the player he was.
The thing that made Wheeler so special was his gas tank / engine / drive and determination.
He's lost more than a step and for the most part he loses most of his board battles or avoids them completely.
He was such a big play driver and ice tilter and now he struggles to gain and maintain the puck.
He still has some "street smarts" and can pass well when he has time and space.
He used to carry other people... hell he carried the team.
Now it looks like he's the one who needs help from others.
His instinct is to dump and chase but he's not that great at chasing anymore and rarely is the one to retrieve the puck.

That speaks to holes in his game from his decline not to him being a complete player.
Wheeler from a few years ago would be steering this team to a division title quite likely.

I would argue that the Wheeler from last night was a close approximation of the Wheeler from a few years ago. He was first on the forecheck, throwing his body around and quicker with his decision making. Granted, this type of play from him has been few and far between the last little while, but last night showed he still has it in him. Can he do that consistently? That's an open question.

 

[KingBogo]

This is the craziest thing I've ever heard, and I'm a psychiatrist.

Definitely one of the best responses I’ve ever read on these boards. Chuckled out loud

 

[RCAFguy]

Yes - and no. The way we give up boatloads of shots, and high danger scoring chances won't just disappear when Dubois gets up to speed.

It is our D corps but also our defensively challenged forwards. Mostly the D though.

I believe part of the D problem is the way they are being used. Morrissey and DeMelo were good together. Apart, both are disappointing. Forbort has cooled off lately but I think he will recover somewhat. Good enough to be a placeholder, but that's all. But swap DeMelo and Poolman and I think our D is adequate. Just.

Morrisey seems lost without DeMelo. Forbort started off like gangbusters but is currently being carried by Pionk. I think you are correct though. Move DeMelo back with Morrisey until they both settle in, keep Pionk with Forbort, and the one change I would like to see made is bring in Ville to play with Poolman.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It just doesn't make a lot of sense conceptually.
Normally, you trade from a position of strength to fill a weakness. RHD is our weakest position and Pionk is the best of 'em.
Similarly, the other team would trade a player from a position of strength to fill a weakness, so they wouldn't jump to trade a RHD just to get one back.

Of course they wouldn't trade a RHD just to get one back. They would trade him to get the other piece of our package because they could handle the loss with the addition of our RHD. They need to need that other piece badly enough to accept the downgrade at RHD.

But even leaving Pionk out of the package if that doesn't add up for you. Lets say that hypothetically we managed to sign Hamilton as a UFA. He is now clearly our 1RHD. Pionk still becomes expendable. The cap issues come into play. Pionk needs a raise next year. We could probably trade him for a nice return and save some cap space.

We have other options for 2RHD. A 2nd pair spot is so much easier to fill than a 1st pair spot. DeMelo, Poolman, Kovacevic, Gawanke, Samberg. And I'd bet that Morrissey rebounds solidly playing beside Hamilton.

Morrissey - Hamilton
Heinola - Samberg
DeMelo - Kovacevic
just for 1 example.

Pionk is an important part of the team ...... until we acquire a true 1RHD somewhere, somehow.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Morrisey seems lost without DeMelo. Forbort started off like gangbusters but is currently being carried by Pionk. I think you are correct though. Move DeMelo back with Morrisey until they both settle in, keep Pionk with Forbort, and the one change I would like to see made is bring in Ville to play with Poolman.

I think Samberg comes up before Heinola. Just dictated by contract situations. But the reports on Samberg with the Moose last night were very positive too. Either way moves Beaulieu to the press box.

They might be wanting to develop Samberg to play the right side though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I sure wish we were more concerned with winning than saving ELC time. Heinola could be a game changer for us.

I don’t know Samberg’s game at all. Only what I’ve heard.

I agree. But I might not be too happy a few years from now when Ville needs to be paid and Wheeler is still on the books.

Samberg, OTOH, might be a difference maker. I'm still hoping we see him before long.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Oh, I'll happily take the win...but the Jets' team defense is a shambles. It's not just McDavid making them look bad.

How often has Ottawa buried us in shots already this year? Its not McDavid.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I would argue that the Wheeler from last night was a close approximation of the Wheeler from a few years ago. He was first on the forecheck, throwing his body around and quicker with his decision making. Granted, this type of play from him has been few and far between the last little while, but last night showed he still has it in him. Can he do that consistently? That's an open question.

I agree that last night's Wheeler was a better version of what he is now.
But he still didn't help much on the possession play driving side of things.
He did seem to be skating harder and spending more of that gas tank.
He went from a guy that skated like crazy everywhere and had lots of success on the forecheck to a guy who did the same with little success to a guy who seemed to be pacing himself to play 24+ minutes.

When Wheeler's engine started to fail was at the same time that the Jets PP and offense heated up.
So he had his best seasons for pts while the other aspects of his game regressed.

But more speedy Wheeler would be great.
I'd still love to see him sneak in the odd left wing swoop rush that he has abandoned.
I know everyone was expecting it for many seasons and now I think no one expects him to try it so maybe he can sneak one in.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think the Jets are as concerned with burning an ELC year as some would say. I think it's more about Heinola's stamina and strength, as well as lack of NA pro experience.

He hasn't exhibited a lack of stamina or strength in the games he has played. From reports last night, he didn't lack either with the Moose.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Morrisey seems lost without DeMelo. Forbort started off like gangbusters but is currently being carried by Pionk. I think you are correct though. Move DeMelo back with Morrisey until they both settle in, keep Pionk with Forbort, and the one change I would like to see made is bring in Ville to play with Poolman.

We seem to know that Maurice won't be using Heinola any time soon so I would even go for trying DeMelo with Morrissey and then try a Stanley / Poolman 3rd pairing.

If Pionk takes over the PP1 duties you could use Morrissey more on the PK.
Forbort, Morrisey, Poolman and ??? (I'm not sure which of DeMelo, Stanley or Pionk would be the best there)

 

[Gnova]

Scheifele's had a lot of good O zone pressure. some nice strips and almost-strips yesterday.
his knock is, of course, his play in our zone. and i think i'd also include his ability to get the puck OUT of our zone.

Ehlers is our best player. checks so many boxes. a bit better in our zone than Scheifele and better in zone entry and in the neutral zone.
if we had to choose 1 player for the All-Star (imaginary) game, it would be Ehlers. he is getting close to superstar level. not there yet, but he's at the point where he's almost a difference maker on every shift. he's dominant.

The only reason 27 would be selected for the ASG ahead of 55 is how packed north division is with star C.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Oh no, it's definitely the money/ELC slide. They save $762,000 by keeping him off the Jets' roster. The Jets are losing money hand over fist this year.

How do they save money? Who is on the roster in his place who would cost 762k less than him? Which would be way below league minimum. They are saving money by minimizing the roster whenever possible and going with 22 men the rest of the time. But they can drop a player down anytime they want Ville in a game. They didn't have any trouble getting Stanley into 13 games.

 

[Jet]

If buff and little both played this year we would be absolutely worse off then we are now. And that was the plan. It’s weird how this gets forgotten.

Buff and little situations have made chevys job a lot easier IMO. I would say saved chevys job but it’s not going to be in danger for a long time

I don't know about that. If we had Buff and Little, we'd definitely not have Stasny, and I think Little is better than Stasny (at least this years' addition to date).

So that's a net gain of 4.75MM hard dollars and 6.6MM cap space.

It would be likely we wouldn't have signed Demelo which bumps that down to 1.75MM and 3.6MM cap hit, respectively. A couple of other shifts would have gotten us into compliance and we are a much better team - stasny demelo + little byfuglien

 

[Jet]

How often has Ottawa buried us in shots already this year? Its not McDavid.

Quality of shots matter. Throwing everything at the net doesn't mean much. They definitely outplayed us for stretches, but this is the same team that was barely losing games, and ended up coming back from 1-5 on the top team in the division to win.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wouldn't putting Beau on the taxi squad and bringing up Heinola mitigate that?

They would have to waive Beau. I don't think there is any way they risk that. They need him for the XD.

But there is no reason not to waive Niku.

 

[Jet]

He hasn't exhibited a lack of stamina or strength in the games he has played. From reports last night, he didn't lack either with the Moose.

Surely you aren't serious. Stamina isn't measured in one game in a year. It's logically expecting a player who played much fewer games a year, against smaller less physical competition to struggle under the immense physical demands of the NHL.

It's the same thing with strength. First of all, he's not playing against NHL forwards, and its ONE GAME. We saw last year that Heinola's game faded the more he played and the better the competition got. This is not a indictment of Heinola's abilities as a hockey player. It's a reasonable assesment of how a player who was recently a child can expect to fare against big strong professionals, especially with his size.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No, Beaulieu's on a one-way deal. He gets paid $1.25M whether he's on the taxi squad or not. Vesalainen's the only other guy on the Jets' roster on a two-way deal, so as soon as Thompson's off the IR, I'd expect him to head back to the taxi squad. I'm pretty sure that's why Stanley got demoted even after showing well. The team is in dire financial straits - they've got $72.5M in salary to pay and they're missing out on $50M-$70M in revenue from ticket sales, concessions, playoffs, etc.

Good point. There is cap and there is real money. Easy to forget the difference sometimes.

 

[GNP]

Yes - and no. The way we give up boatloads of shots, and high danger scoring chances won't just disappear when Dubois gets up to speed.

It is our D corps but also our defensively challenged forwards. Mostly the D though.

I believe part of the D problem is the way they are being used. Morrissey and DeMelo were good together. Apart, both are disappointing. Forbort has cooled off lately but I think he will recover somewhat. Good enough to be a placeholder, but that's all. But swap DeMelo and Poolman and I think our D is adequate. Just.

_________________________________________________

If we had a good defense, like we used to have, we'd be a Cup contender. Right now we have to count on getting a bit lucky with Heinola and Samberg, and if they can cut it in the top 4 defensemen, we'll be a force to be reckoned with this year.

Defence is our biggest problem right now, and with the Cap being the way it is, all teams have their weakness. Our other one is starting to look like coaching, as it seems Maurice can only take a team so far.

The Jets should give someone else a chance -- like a Barry Trotz type of guy. Easier said than done though.

 

[Jets 31]

This is the craziest thing I've ever heard, and I'm a psychiatrist.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Quality of shots matter. Throwing everything at the net doesn't mean much. They definitely outplayed us for stretches, but this is the same team that was barely losing games, and ended up coming back from 1-5 on the top team in the division to win.

OK, forget it was Ottawa. Though they weren't just throwing everything at the net. They were getting lots of good scoring chances.

But how many times have we been buried in shots, shot attempts, and good scoring chances this year already? It is becoming our identity.

The shot count could have been closer last night if Jets had not tried 1 more pass to set up a better shot several times. It would have been closer if Helle had played better. He was off last night and hung on by his toenails. But we give up an awful lot of shots to everybody.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Surely you aren't serious. Stamina isn't measured in one game in a year. It's logically expecting a player who played much fewer games a year, against smaller less physical competition to struggle under the immense physical demands of the NHL.

It's the same thing with strength. First of all, he's not playing against NHL forwards, and its ONE GAME. We saw last year that Heinola's game faded the more he played and the better the competition got. This is not a indictment of Heinola's abilities as a hockey player. It's a reasonable assesment of how a player who was recently a child can expect to fare against big strong professionals, especially with his size.

ONE game last night. His ONE game with the Jets. ALL of his WJC games. His 8 games with the Jets last year - although there, I'll grant you strength may have been lacking.

If he had played only that ONE game last night the whole year and shown no lack of stamina or strength would you still say he lacked stamina and strength because it was only ONE game? You are claiming he lacks strength and stamina because he hasn't yet been tested to see if he has strength and stamina.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This is the craziest thing I've ever heard, and I'm a psychiatrist.

 

[bob77]

Morrisey seems lost without DeMelo. Forbort started off like gangbusters but is currently being carried by Pionk. I think you are correct though. Move DeMelo back with Morrisey until they both settle in, keep Pionk with Forbort, and the one change I would like to see made is bring in Ville to play with Poolman.

I hardly think of it as Pionk is carrying Forbort. They both bring something different to the pair.

 

[leer2006]

OK, forget it was Ottawa. Though they weren't just throwing everything at the net. They were getting lots of good scoring chances.

But how many times have we been buried in shots, shot attempts, and good scoring chances this year already? It is becoming our identity.

The shot count could have been closer last night if Jets had not tried 1 more pass to set up a better shot several times. It would have been closer if Helle had played better. He was off last night and hung on by his toenails. But we give up an awful lot of shots to everybody.

They have been like this for the better part of 2 seasons. This is coaching. They are being asked to play like this.

 

[BatVader]

I could score playing on McJesus's wing . I agree though Puljujarvi is looking pretty good, don't tell @BatVader though because he's been saying we should have picked him up for over a year.