Post-Game Talk: Jets see Stars, lose in OT 4-3

[None]

He had a huge zone exit on a PK against two guys trying to jam him out on the point, while the game was still tied at 2.

I think I remember this

The first 25 minutes of the game just feel like a blur.

 

[buggs]

I'm sure it's somewhere in the middle. If this team is a middle.of the pack metric team we should be a playoff team if Helle plays like he can.

But goalies are going to goalie. There's a reason that we say "goalies are voodoo". Helle is a stellar goalie, arguably top three in the league. But he is having, for him, a down year. Why? Don't know. Not sure if its team composition/performance or his individual performance.

Don't believe me? Look at Bobrovsky individually over years. He looks like a god this year, has previously, but last year? Not so much.

I refuse to lay it at the feet of Helle. He's going to be good, he's going to be average and he's going to be bad (please stop handling the puck behind the net). Like any goalie. His metrics indicate he's very, very good. But he can't carry any team all season long. When a goalie is hot, they are hot and can carry any team. But they aren't all hot, all the time.

The Jets issues lie not with their goaltending (unlike say Edmonton, whose issues include goaltending but go farther than that) but run far deeper than that. Helle may underperform and should be called out when he does, but his play can neither save nor sink the team. He's not the defining reason in a season like this.

It's just my opinion, and I'm content to suggest this isn't an up Helle season, but if we miss the playoffs, I'm not laying it at the feet of Hellebuyck. He's been good enough if the team performs in front of him to get to the playoffs. At that point he needs to get hot, but he can't save this team on his own, even if he has overcompensated in past years.

 

[surixon]

But goalies are going to goalie. There's a reason that we say "goalies are voodoo". Helle is a stellar goalie, arguably top three in the league. But he is having, for him, a down year. Why? Don't know. Not sure if its team composition/performance or his individual performance.

Don't believe me? Look at Bobrovsky individually over years. He looks like a god this year, has previously, but last year? Not so much.

I refuse to lay it at the feet of Helle. He's going to be good, he's going to be average and he's going to be bad (please stop handling the puck behind the net). Like any goalie. His metrics indicate he's very, very good. But he can't carry any team all season long. When a goalie is hot, they are hot and can carry any team. But they aren't all hot, all the time.

The Jets issues lie not with their goaltending (unlike say Edmonton, whose issues include goaltending but go farther than that) but run far deeper than that. Helle may underperform and should be called out when he does, but his play can neither save nor sink the team. He's not the defining reason in a season like this.

It's just my opinion, and I'm content to suggest this isn't an up Helle season, but if we miss the playoffs, I'm not laying it at the feet of Hellebuyck. He's been good enough if the team performs in front of him to get to the playoffs. At that point he needs to get hot, but he can't save this team on his own, even if he has overcompensated in past years.

The teams performance on a whole is a lot better this year then the past two years. Helle carried a team that was bottom 3 in getting outchanced for two straight years so yes he's perfectly capable of being the difference there. He's been sub par this year but generally good enough that we'd be well in the mix if this team finished close to what the models predict we should be finishing at. Given we out performed those models for a couple of years it's not surprising we'd have a year where we'd underperform it.

I don't think Helle is an issue on this team, I think finishing, a lack of accountability, and being in denial on a certain player on this team are the biggest issues.

If this team finishes at league average levels while breaking even in the chance battle then I think Helle pushes us from a fringe playoff team to a comfortably in playoff team. We look even more dangerous if we start finishing above average like we had for years prior to this season.

 

[AlphaLackey]

But goalies are going to goalie. There's a reason that we say "goalies are voodoo". Helle is a stellar goalie, arguably top three in the league. But he is having, for him, a down year. Why? Don't know. Not sure if its team composition/performance or his individual performance.

Don't believe me? Look at Bobrovsky individually over years. He looks like a god this year, has previously, but last year? Not so much.

I refuse to lay it at the feet of Helle. He's going to be good, he's going to be average and he's going to be bad (please stop handling the puck behind the net). Like any goalie. His metrics indicate he's very, very good. But he can't carry any team all season long. When a goalie is hot, they are hot and can carry any team. But they aren't all hot, all the time.

The Jets issues lie not with their goaltending (unlike say Edmonton, whose issues include goaltending but go farther than that) but run far deeper than that. Helle may underperform and should be called out when he does, but his play can neither save nor sink the team. He's not the defining reason in a season like this.

It's just my opinion, and I'm content to suggest this isn't an up Helle season, but if we miss the playoffs, I'm not laying it at the feet of Hellebuyck. He's been good enough if the team performs in front of him to get to the playoffs. At that point he needs to get hot, but he can't save this team on his own, even if he has overcompensated in past years.

Exactly. If Bucky is "merely" above average enough that he stops 12 more goals than an average goalie would, that's still only 4 points in the standings.

Again: the BEST GOALIE in any given year has about a 1 in 6 chance of putting up league average numbers over a 15 game block that year -- and vice versa, an average goalie to put up Vezina numbers (Hammond in your generation, Lalime in mine, &c &c &c). That is PROFOUND variance for an athletic sport.

The only mistake we make is in pretending that this variance is a failure of will or of skill.

 

[GNP]

I don't think Helle is an issue on this team, I think finishing, a lack of accountability, and being in denial on a certain player on this team are the biggest issues.

When you say being in denial on a certain player on this team -- are you referring to Wheeler ?? because I think he's the cancer in the Jets dressing room. He's snarly and rude to reporters, and very defensive when asked certain questions. I have also heard he's causing a big divide in the Jet's dressing room. Some say that's the reason why Chiarot didn't resign here, and that could be the reason Buff retired early ?? I'm not quite sure about these things, only what I've heard. Remember, Wheeler is the guy who fired a puck at Chiarot's head in practise, that caused a fight I believe.

Any which way, the guy is worth about $ 3.5 Mil, and is paid $ 8.5 M, and at best his a plug and play 3rd liner. He basically has free reign to run this team, and the team has a way better record without him in the lineup. It would be my vote to "get rid of him" and even if you have to retain a lot of salary. Wheeler is hurting the Jets, in my opinion.

Our future will be with players like Connor, Dubois, Ehlers, Perfetti, and Morrissey and maybe Scheifele etc, and the club should see to it that their happy here.

 

[surixon]

When you say being in denial on a certain player on this team -- are you referring to Wheeler ?? because I think he's the cancer in the Jets dressing room. He's snarly and rude to reporters, and very defensive when asked certain questions. I have also heard he's causing a big divide in the Jet's dressing room. Some say that's the reason why Chiarot didn't resign here, and that could be the reason Buff retired early ?? I'm not quite sure about these things, only what I've heard. Remember, he's the guy who fired a puck at Chiarot's head in practise, that caused a fight I believe.

Any which way, the guy is worth about $ 3.5 Mil, and is paid $ 8.5 M, and at best his a plug and play 3rd liner. He basically has free reign to run this team, and the team has a way better record without him in the lineup. It would be my vote to "get rid of him" and even if you have to retain a lot of salary. Wheeler is hurting the Jets, in my opinion.

Yup I'm talking about the captain. He is still deployed like he's the same player he was in 2018. I don't understand it especially given he is now dragging down Scheifele and just flat out is a liability in the minutes he gets most nights. He gets top line minutes, the most skilled center and top pp minutes and is 7th on the team in scoring. He's pacing less then 60 points while having near team worst underlying metrics.

So to me the org, Wheeler, or both clearly can't accuraty evaluate his ability and deploy him optimally.

I have no clue on the locker room. Stuff but he was already blaming the year on COVID and the kids last week. If he's that sour with reporters I can't imagine he's fun to be around in the room after a loss.

Someone mentioned that reporters don't even ask for him after games alk that much any longer. If that is the case that is pretty darn telling that they do t want to speak to the captain of the team.

 

[Jets 31]

Breaking up Dubois, Connor and Perfetti was a terrible plan and then basically sitting Perfetti was a even worse plan, Lowry give your head a shake. LOVED Dillon's game last night, not 1 but 2 Buffesk hits. Can we have 1 PP too please refs ??? We got a point now lets get 2 tonight.

 

[GNP]

Yup I'm talking about the captain. He is still deployed like he's the same player he was in 2018. I don't understand it especially given he is now dragging down Scheifele and just flat out is a liability in the minutes he gets most nights. He gets top line minutes, the most skilled center and top pp minutes and is 7th on the team in scoring. He's pacing less then 60 points while having near team worst underlying metrics.

So to me the org, Wheeler, or both clearly can't accuraty evaluate his ability and deploy him optimally.

I have no clue on the locker room. Stuff but he was ready blaming the year on COVID and the kids last week. If he's that sour with reporters I cut imagine he's fu to be around in the room after a loss.

I feel exactly the same way as you about Wheeler, and just my gut feel on the guy is "not good." I get bad vibes from him. I'd feel very good if the Jets got rid of him, and I don't understand how he can boss around the coaches etc, and get all the playing time he does ? We need a future coach that will stand up to him, and if he's not happy, he can sit, or be bought out, or traded.

Also on the dressing room stuff, I'm not sure of, but only what I've heard, and rumours usually have some truth to them.

Either which way, I'd like to see him gone - he's already around 36, so we won't be losing anything. It was a very bad signing by Chevy, who has a love affair with aging veterans. He has to learn to let them walk.

 

[thai jet]

I feel exactly the same way as you about Wheeler, and just my gut feel on the guy is "not good." I get bad vibes from him. I'd feel very good if the Jets got rid of him, and I don't understand how he can boss around the coaches etc, and get all the playing time he does ? We need a future coach that will stand up to him, and if he's not happy, he can sit, or be bought out, or traded.

Also on the dressing room stuff, I'm not sure of, but only what I've heard, and rumours usually have some truth to them.

Either which way, I'd like to see him gone - he's already around 36, so we won't be losing anything. It was a very bad signing by Chevy, who has a love affair with aging veterans. He has to learn to let them walk.

It would be a mistake to let Chipman off the hook in many of these decisions. My view is his personal involvement in hockey ops is the underlying problem with this team. Has Chevy made one hire in the management group on his own? Hiezinger, Simmons, Roy, Keene are all Chipman hires. I don't think Wheeler is a good captain but on ice it is Selfishele who has been playing at at most 60% effort since the conference finals season.

 

[ps241]

Sorry my bad you are right the are not closer to being a lottery team they are in the running since they are in the bottom 14 of the league. You may have jet goggles on and I do not blame you. It is better to have hope and be optimistic. I have lost hope.

I give the jets about a 20%-25% chance of making the playoffs. That is pretty slim but I’m not bailing just yet. My expectations are this team will miss. I’m not sure what you mean by lottery team because everyone who misses the playoffs has odds of winning one of those three lottery slots “that improves a teams draft position”. However, with the new format the Jets as they sit today have less than 20% chance of winning one of those lottery slots. Now I’m no @AlphaLackey to get the exact odds right but they sick more than our playoff chances.


The thing is right now if we lucked into the playoffs and didn’t get on a roll our draft position isn’t materially different. We might draft 15th vs 18th.

 

[Easternbull]

Shame that a playoff spot looks to be runnig out of the Jets hands when Dubois is beasting like that, his game is absolutely made for seven game series!!

Chevy needs lock him up long term ASAP!!

 

[Ducky10]

Have you checked out the fancy stats on our win against Minnesota? I only have the P(Win) from MoneyPuck to go on, but based on that, I'd bet you we were as dominant then as we were dominated today. 2 points when we thump, 1 point when being thumped. Hardly the end of the world.

Actually we weren’t, which surprised me. Also, I’m not referring to the team fancy stats, just making an observation on how our top line compared to their opposition. They might not have been awful, but they were far from good and significantly outplayed.
It’s not about 2 points or 1 point, it’s more about going from game to game either thumping or being thumped. That’s the definition of inconsistency, which is this team’s issue. Let’s face it though, they’ve been the thumpee far more than the thumper.

 

[Ducky10]

notice how wide open scheifele was to a breakaway had the pass made it to him...

Connor just needs to one touch that puck up to Scheifele, not sure why he felt the need to skate with it. In a 3v3 situation any player in Scheifele’s position heads up ice for the break, it’s basic hockey. Even Morrissey was heading up ice. Defensive hockey doesn’t mean you do everything to protect against your teammates f***ing up, besides there is nothing about 3v3 that suggests defense, lol. It was shit luck, period.