Prospect Info: Jets Prospects

[SSCBLUEJET]

Over who? Heinola? He was 3rd on the Moose and has huge holes in his game. Just because he was drafted by the organization he gets a cup of coffee in the NHL?

Schmidt doesn't have huge holes in his play? Stanley doesn't have huge holes in his play? Pionk? Heinola? Cabbie? Samberg?
3rd on the Moose but won defenseman of the year and had the most points of any DMan on the team?
I wish this team's apologists would just STFU.

 

[gojetsgo]

I mean that is exactly what the org has done with countless forward prospects and depth forwards.

Guys who have performed well in the AHL at the forward position have all gotten opportunities to show what they can at the NHL level.

Guys like Perfetti, Conner, Roslovic all got advanced quickly. Yes they are the high pedigree players but the org has given numerous opportunities to depth forwards over the years.

Lemieux, Appelton, Lowry have parlayed their opportunities into long careers.

We have guven opportunities to numerous fringe guys over the last number of years.

Harkins, Gus, Reichel, Essyimont, Suess, Stenlund, maenalanen etc.

We don't do the same with our d prospects, many of which are as if not more deserving than the forwards that got there's.

For a fringe guy it's incredibly important to get noticed and its hard to get noticed if you don't play. Also I'm not sure this org has earned the benefit of the doubt with assessing d readiness. We didn't have any time for Kovacevik but he clearly showed he was ready to play in the NHL this past year.

A guy like Essyimont turning his opportunity into a full time job is exactly what Guys like Chisholm, Gawanke are looking for. It's worth 10× the cash they get in the AHL. It's incredibly important so I completely get the frustration.

This org needs to do a better job with its d prospects. Instead of bringing in expensive bad options to block them maybe play them and perhaps they surprise with the opportunity.

it's a lot easier to give an opportunity to a forward then it is a defensemen, it's not like this org was just rewarding guys you listed when they felt weren't ready that were further down the depth chart than other players and were pleasantly surprised they took their opportunity and ran with it

 

[gojetsgo]

Schmidt doesn't have huge holes in his play? Stanley doesn't have huge holes in his play? Pionk? Heinola? Cabbie? Samberg?
3rd on the Moose but won defenseman of the year and had the most points of any DMan on the team?
I wish this team's apologists would just STFU.

niku won defensemen of the year for the entire league.. he also had 2 more points then chisholm but played 9 more games and 8 more points then heinola in 20 more games

what's funny about this is I don't think I saw a single post about gawanke getting a chance on the jets before he decided to sign in the german league

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

"Rewarding a player who has played well, not just been a good soldier, is part of the development process. It shows some appreciation for their efforts and also shows them how much farther they have to go to earn a job in the NHL."

If he's not good defensively in ahl how do you think that will translate into the nhl? were trying to win games, you don't do that by rewarding guys that you know are not ready and you certainly don't put a guy in the line up to show him how much father away he is from actually making it...

The NHL is full of offensive Dmen who are defensively suspect - and again, I'm not talking about playing the whole season. A few days on the roster, practicing with the big club. Maybe a game, 2 if he shows well in the first one. We had plenty of games with Dmen who are suspect defensively and offensively in the lineup.

Lots of Moose players have been called up for a game or 2. Some were called up and never got into a game.

 

[Romang67]

niku won defensemen of the year for the entire league.. he also had 2 more points then chisholm but played 9 more games and 8 more points then heinola in 20 more games

what's funny about this is I don't think I saw a single post about gawanke getting a chance on the jets before he decided to sign in the german league

That does limit the impact of the complaining about how the Jets wouldn't use him.

I have big concerns about the Jets' refusing to let young D-men attempt to play their way onto the roster. But AFAIK, Gawanke was a defensive liability at the AHL level as recently as the season before this one. And this preseason he was clearly behind Heinola and Chisholm among D-men that were sent back to the Moose.

 

[gojetsgo]

The NHL is full of offensive Dmen who are defensively suspect - and again, I'm not talking about playing the whole season. A few days on the roster, practicing with the big club. Maybe a game, 2 if he shows well in the first one. We had plenty of games with Dmen who are suspect defensively and offensively in the lineup.

Lots of Moose players have been called up for a game or 2. Some were called up and never got into a game.

1) you are talking about him skipping players on the depth chart to reward him when he isn't ready
2) the last thing the jets need is another offensive only defensemen
3) you are acting like him playing 1-2 games or being called up to the pressbox was going to be enough to keep him happy...
4) people are acting like bowness isn't in communication with morrison on who the call up should be

 

[Whileee]

Gawanke cleared waivers in October 2022. 31 other NHL teams could have claimed him for free. Kovacevic was placed on waivers and was claimed by the Habs.

It's pretty evident that it wasn't just the Jets that didn't see NHL potential in Gawanke at this point.

The NHL is full of offensive Dmen who are defensively suspect - and again, I'm not talking about playing the whole season. A few days on the roster, practicing with the big club. Maybe a game, 2 if he shows well in the first one. We had plenty of games with Dmen who are suspect defensively and offensively in the lineup.

Lots of Moose players have been called up for a game or 2. Some were called up and never got into a game.

What good would a game or two do for Gawanke or the Jets? The issue is the Jets have decided he doesn't have an NHL future. I would tend to agree with that assessment (I've never seen much NHL potential in Gawanke). None of the other teams wanted to claim him for free when the Jets waived him before last season.

Jets need to improve in creating opportunities for young players, but Gawanke isn't a strong case for that notion.

 

[snowkiddin]

Gawanke cleared waivers in October 2022. 31 other NHL teams could have claimed him for free. Kovacevic was placed on waivers and was claimed by the Habs.

It's pretty evident that it wasn't just the Jets that didn't see NHL potential in Gawanke at this point.

What good would a game or two do for Gawanke or the Jets? The issue is the Jets have decided he doesn't have an NHL future. I would tend to agree with that assessment (I've never seen much NHL potential in Gawanke). None of the other teams wanted to claim him for free when the Jets waived him before last season.

Jets need to improve in creating opportunities for young players, but Gawanke isn't a strong case for that notion.

I tend to agree for the bolded. A better example would be the Stanley/Samberg/Heinola/Chisholm conundrum, methinks.

 

[Whileee]

I tend to agree for the bolded. A better example would be the Stanley/Samberg/Heinola/Chisholm conundrum, methinks.

Agree.

I still have concerns about Bowness restricting youth advancement, but don't think Gawanke was held back unfairly.

 

[MardyBum]

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

1) you are talking about him skipping players on the depth chart to reward him when he isn't ready
2) the last thing the jets need is another offensive only defensemen
3) you are acting like him playing 1-2 games or being called up to the pressbox was going to be enough to keep him happy...
4) people are acting like bowness isn't in communication with morrison on who the call up should be

What Dman ahead of him on the depth chart never got onto the Jets roster for a day?

A little time on the Jets roster would have given him a big boost in pay - but more importantly, a little recognition and encouragement from his organization. These guys are human beings.

The cost would have been negligible.

Would it have kept him with the Jets until one day he makes the NHL? Coin toss at best. More likely not. But maybe. Why throw away maybe in exchange for no chance at all?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Gawanke cleared waivers in October 2022. 31 other NHL teams could have claimed him for free. Kovacevic was placed on waivers and was claimed by the Habs.

It's pretty evident that it wasn't just the Jets that didn't see NHL potential in Gawanke at this point.

What good would a game or two do for Gawanke or the Jets? The issue is the Jets have decided he doesn't have an NHL future. I would tend to agree with that assessment (I've never seen much NHL potential in Gawanke). None of the other teams wanted to claim him for free when the Jets waived him before last season.

Jets need to improve in creating opportunities for young players, but Gawanke isn't a strong case for that notion.

Sure, but he went on to have his best season. Would he have cleared waivers again? Who knows?

I'm not saying Gawanke is the best case for that notion. Even after this good season, he probably doesn't make it. But having players leave the organization like that is not a good look and may not have been necessary.

 

[gojetsgo]

What Dman ahead of him on the depth chart never got onto the Jets roster for a day?

A little time on the Jets roster would have given him a big boost in pay - but more importantly, a little recognition and encouragement from his organization. These guys are human beings.

The cost would have been negligible.

Would it have kept him with the Jets until one day he makes the NHL? Coin toss at best. More likely not. But maybe. Why throw away maybe in exchange for no chance at all?

the dmen ahead of him got on the roster because they were exactly that, ahead of him

boost in pay but not going to do much for him in the long run... heinola got 10 games I doubt he is satisfied with that

the cost of rushing him into the lineup to reward him could have cost us points in the standings which could have cost us a playoff spot....

maybe they felt he wasn't going to be an nhl player so giving him a game or two wasn't going to help this franchise so they chose others to play ahead of him

 

[superdeluxe]

Our Captain, Bauer <3

 

[superdeluxe]

Oh thats fantastic.

 

[scelaton]

This is in no way about blind loyalty and entitlement in any form. Rewarding a player who has played well, not just been a good soldier, is part of the development process. It shows some appreciation for their efforts and also shows them how much farther they have to go to earn a job in the NHL.

Quite a few Moose have had their cups of coffee in the NHL, some quite a bit more than that.

Agree that it is part of the development process for players who are close, obviously not for all players.
The "blind loyalty" argument is misplaced and goes both ways. The Jets' blind loyalty actually appears to be to established borderline vets, rather than taking risks on younger,less proven prospects. As a result, a litany of replacement-level D-men have been given opportunities on D not afforded to our own prospects.
There is a small risk to bringing up young players for a game or two, but arguably bigger risks to not do so. As you have said, Gawanke may not be the best example but he is just the most recent example of a pattern of behaviour that is not entirely D&D friendly.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

the dmen ahead of him got on the roster because they were exactly that, ahead of him

boost in pay but not going to do much for him in the long run... heinola got 10 games I doubt he is satisfied with that

the cost of rushing him into the lineup to reward him could have cost us points in the standings which could have cost us a playoff spot....

maybe they felt he wasn't going to be an nhl player so giving him a game or two wasn't going to help this franchise so they chose others to play ahead of him

Clearly that is how they felt. But giving him that short callup might have had some value. Looks like taking him for granted to me.

It it not rushing him into the lineup. You keep talking like it would have been for a big block of games. Yes, it might have cost us a point or 2 - that is 2 max. It also just might have gained us a point or two. He would have been replacing Stanley or Capobianco, not Morrissey.

 

[gojetsgo]

Clearly that is how they felt. But giving him that short callup might have had some value. Looks like taking him for granted to me.

It it not rushing him into the lineup. You keep talking like it would have been for a big block of games. Yes, it might have cost us a point or 2 - that is 2 max. It also just might have gained us a point or two. He would have been replacing Stanley or Capobianco, not Morrissey.

oh a point or two, no big deal I guess... it's not like we were in a playoff race and needed every point we could get... stanley, capo, heinola and chisholm all seem to be better options over him

anyways think this conversation has ran it's course, don't think we need a repeat of the eric comrie saga...

 

[surixon]

Agree that it is part of the development process for players who are close, obviously not for all players.
The "blind loyalty" argument is misplaced and goes both ways. The Jets' blind loyalty actually appears to be to established borderline vets, rather than taking risks on younger,less proven prospects. As a result, a litany of replacement-level D-men have been given opportunities on D not afforded to our own prospects.
There is a small risk to bringing up young players for a game or two, but arguably bigger risks to not do so. As you have said, Gawanke may not be the best example but he is just the most recent example of a pattern of behaviour that is not entirely D&D friendly.

What's funny is this only seems to happen to our d prospects. They have no issue giving opportunities tonour forward prospects. Sure every now and then you get a Roslovic situation where they are blocked by better players in the top 6 but by and large they have integrated the forwards well. Not so much on defense.

 

[None]

What's funny is this only seems to happen to our d prospects. They have no issue giving opportunities tonour forward prospects. Sure every now and then you get a Roslovic situation where they are blocked by better players in the top 6 but by and large they have integrated the forwards well. Not so much on defense.

I'm not sure I agree entirely regarding the forwards. I feel like players get typecast in our system and struggle to break out of the role they've been deigned. See Andrew Copp and Jansen Harkins, or even someone like Perreault who did get pretty consistent opportunities in the top 6 but absolutely deserved more. The Perreault example kind of points to it being an overarching issue with player evaluation; not just a young player/prospect problem though.

 

[JetsFan815]

Not losing any sleep over Gawanke. By most accounts his defensive game was never good enough and he passed through waivers. I aa more upset about Kovacevic who was a promising prospect with size.

 

[surixon]

I'm not sure I agree entirely regarding the forwards. I feel like players get typecast in our system and struggle to break out of the role they've been deigned. See Andrew Copp and Jansen Harkins, or even someone like Perreault who did get pretty consistent opportunities in the top 6 but absolutely deserved more. The Perreault example kind of points to it being an overarching issue with player evaluation; not just a young player/prospect problem though.

That is a legit criticism. I'm hoping at some point we move past that narrowly defined role deployment.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Exactly.

It's not like even in November giving a Gawanke 10-15 minutes a few times over another 3rd-pairing option is going to cost the season.

Exactly. The Jets have/ are mishandling their defensive prospects with the additions of Dillon and Schmidt on longer term contracts 2 years ago when signed, traded for. No room at the inn and refusal to play many of them with any consistency. Is Stanley gone too? Haven't heard for sure yet that I recall.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Fwiw, I see Kovacevic coming back in a PLD trade ironically.

I’d love to see a back end with Samberg, Chisholm, Heinola, Kovacevic with Morrissey and Demelo.

Let the kids figure it out. It’d be fun, atleast

The other side of this "conundrum" might well be that is not the job of the nhl hired D-coach in the organization ' s job partly to work with and teach and instill nhl level defensive structure, awareness and responsibility, to prospects?? If you don,'t give them an opportunity with the big club and thus more valuable, relative training/practicing/teaching this level of play, how can one justify they are a liability or not good enough? Why were they drafted on a "draft & develop team system" if the actual develop phase misses the final , important nhl level stage? Miss guided mamagement (Chevy) has unsuccessfully changed its actions toward "free agents", old farts and seasoned traveller players to plug 3rd pairings and 3rd, 4th line holes. So

 

[superdeluxe]

Pray for me. It’s a goalie duel between Hauser and Milic. 1-0 Seattle up