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Jets Management thread

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Eyeseeing said:
How confident are you of a bounce back , by leaving it as is? I’m not.
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Not confident at all.

Eyeseeing said:
Are you confident that Arneil can get the core guys playing a responsible 2 way game? , I’m not.
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Nope, I'm not either.

Eyeseeing said:
Cheveldayoff has a huge challenge on landing a big fish, it’s possible of course but unlikely.
I really think we could have used a change behind the bench, a hard ass that would not be afraid to be strict like Bones was.
YMMV all good
I
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I definitely think we could use some changes...personally I think it's time to let someone new have a shot at the GM position (I mean we're on our 4th coach here under Chevy). But, of course there's no sure things here and you can't be assured of that change bringing success either.
 
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Gm0ney said:
Hey! Not everyone can afford the tuition for the "I'll just make up some fairy tale about how the Jets actually have a massive, hidden, secret, cutting-edge Department of Player Development based on what some guy at the Rink told me" school... :sarcasm:

I just thought it was a bit odd that the Jets dropped their scouts from the website in 2023.

But wait! I just found their Media Guide! It's a 65 MB PDF file hidden under News > Jets Media PR > 25-26 Jets Media Guide. I guess they don't know about compressing PDFs? Maybe talk to those geeks in Data Science.

I'll just link to their Media PR page so it doesn't trigger that big download. The link to the guide is near the top right.

Anyway, on page 135 of the media guide, there's a full staff listing.

View attachment 1255834

A few new positions - 2 ADs of Amateur Scouting and a Director, College Free Agency & Pro Scout (so he's also a 50/50 college/pro scout?). The Head European Scout position is back - now filled by Jari Kekalainen (Jarmo's kin? Maybe that's how we unloaded Stanley and Schenn on the Sabres! :laugh: ).

Total department size: 19. I assume the ADs do some scouting...they're just like more senior scouts.

And on the following page, the Moose staff lists a couple of related jobs. Drew MacIntyre, Developmental Goaltending Coach & Scout. A Faceoff Coach, Vaughan Rody. Another Pro Scout, Chris Dennis (I guess he's scouting AHL opps and elsewhere looking for players at that level?).

View attachment 1255838
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Just look at all the loyalty hired positions. Moose legends! Jimmy Roy, Wade Flaherty, Mike Keane. Who's to say any of them do their job well? And even equipment boy himself.... went from washing jock straps to management.
 
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I don't have extensive Google skills, so I asked AI to provide a list of NHL franchises with the largest to smallest front offices including analytics and hockey development positions. It added a little note for each

TLDR.... bigger =/= better

Rank
NHL Team
Overall Hockey Operations Depth
1
Chicago Blackhawks
Massive analytics, player development, performance, scouting, and AHL integration
2
Pittsburgh Penguins
One of the league's largest analytics/R&D groups
3
Toronto Maple Leafs
Long-standing investment in analytics and evaluation
4
Edmonton Oilers
Rapidly expanded analytics, innovation, and development departments
5
San Jose Sharks
Large rebuilding organization with extensive development resources
6
Minnesota Wild
Deep executive and player-development structure
7
New Jersey Devils
Strong analytics integration and development focus
8
Dallas Stars
Large scouting and player personnel operation
9
Vancouver Canucks
Expanded development and management structure recently
10
Detroit Red Wings
Large scouting-heavy organization
11
Tampa Bay Lightning
Leaner but still extensive hockey operations
12
Colorado Avalanche
Strong analytics and player evaluation integration
13
Los Angeles Kings
Deep development and scouting network
14
Buffalo Sabres
Growing analytics and development staff
15
Seattle Kraken
Significant expansion since entering the league
16
St. Louis Blues
Well-rounded but not oversized
17
New York Rangers
Average-to-large structure
18
Carolina Hurricanes
Strong analytical culture but moderate staff size
19
Ottawa Senators
Growing development group
20
Calgary Flames
Mid-sized hockey operations department
21
Washington Capitals
Traditional structure with moderate analytics presence
22
Philadelphia Flyers
Expanding development and scouting operations
23
Montreal Canadiens
More focused structure than many fans assume despite recent growth in analytics and development.
24
Anaheim Ducks
Moderate-sized front office
25
Nashville Predators
Lean hockey operations model
26
Utah Mammoth
Still building organizational depth
27
Winnipeg Jets
Historically among the leaner hockey operations groups
28
Florida Panthers
Efficient, relatively compact structure
29
New York Islanders
Smaller overall hockey staff
30
Columbus Blue Jackets
Lean analytics and management footprint
31
Vegas Golden Knights
Surprisingly small analytics department relative to success.
32
Boston Bruins
One of the smaller publicly listed hockey operations groups despite recent player-development additions.
 
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Warhead77 said:
Just look at all the loyalty hired positions. Moose legends! Jimmy Roy, Wade Flaherty, Mike Keane. Who's to say any of them do their job well? And even equipment boy himself.... went from washing jock straps to management.
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Also Cole Hillier is the Head Equipment Manager for the Moose - and that's the first stop on the Road to Senior VP and Assistant GM!
 
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SensibleGuy said:
So basically where we're at is that nothing can be done because everyone's hands are tied by market circumstances and nobody wants to come here and anyone new is likely to be at best no better than what we have and also there's no need to change anything because everyone is doing as good as can be expected anyway and also don't be math'n stats nerd! Got it.
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Yep. Best way to kill off fan interest is this type of articulated helplessness. I certainly have no intention of watching many games let alone buying tickets next season if this is what is being sold. It is said you are either selling wins or you are selling hope. This "shut up and enjoy drafting 7-14" is certainly quite a sell.
 
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gojetsgo said:
fyi people misinterpreted what dreger said, he said he's in the early days of a contract extension not they were in the early process of getting an extension done
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Yeah I read that as we extended him for 3-4 years after the Presidents cup season which made sense
 
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Hunter368 said:
Pretty much sums it up, toughest market in the NHL to be a GM
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But its not the toughest market to attract data analysts and additional player development personnel…. so why is TNSE so lean? Are we really THAT Winnipeg that Chipman is like ‘hey Zinger and Chevy have got this… they drafted Scheif in 2011 so can rely on their instincts - lets save a bit of cash on analytics'
 
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WolfHouse said:
But its not the toughest market to attract data analysts and additional player development personnel…. so why is TNSE so lean? Are we really THAT Winnipeg that Chipman is like ‘hey Zinger and Chevy have got this… they drafted Scheif in 2011 so can rely on their instincts - lets save a bit of cash on analytics'
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Agreed, they should be top end at those things
 
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WolfHouse said:
But it’s not the toughest market to attract data analysts and additional player development personnel…. so why is TNSE so lean? Are we really THAT Winnipeg that Chipman is like ‘hey Zinger and Chevy have got this… they drafted Scheif in 2011 so can rely on their instincts - lets save a bit of cash on analytics'
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Yup…if you are in the toughest market for attracting players, then you need to be the best at evaluating talent.
 
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cbcwpg said:
Yup…if you are in the toughest market for attracting players, then you need to be the best at evaluating talent.
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Explain to me in detail how "analytics" can accurately measure the impact a player would have on a new team compared to their old team

There are so many variables that can't be controlled for. People think that analytics are some kind of cheat code, but they are WAY more like voodoo
 
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Buffdog said:
Explain to me in detail how "analytics" can accurately measure the impact a player would have on a new team compared to their old team

There are so many variables that can't be controlled for. People think that analytics are some kind of cheat code, but they are WAY more like voodoo
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I imagine Jets management feels the same way
 
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Buffdog said:
Not a very detailed response

About what I expected
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Explain to me in detail how anything can accurately measure the impact a player would have on a new team compared to their old team.

The whole point of analytics is to try and determine the sort of impact a player has on the ice in terms of actually improving a team's chances of winning. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the actual experts try as much as possible to build the analytics so that it's giving useful information about the player's impact in some sort of meaningfully transferrable way. I mean if dummies like you and me here on a hockey forum can conceptualize this potential issue (how can we use analytics to tell what impact a player might have from team to team?) I'm pretty sure the actual analytics nerds have thought of that issue too right? I'd be willing to bet any analytics guy working for any organization would be able to give you all kinds of detailed reasoning as to how they can use the data to get an idea about a player's potential impact. And as always, nobody anywhere is or has ever claimed analytics are some sort of end all perfect thing - they are ultimately just trying to increase your odds by a few percentage points...

But please, do carry on with the never-ending quest to end analytics.
 
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SensibleGuy said:
Explain to me in detail how anything can accurately measure the impact a player would have on a new team compared to their old team.

The whole point of analytics is to try and determine the sort of impact a player has on the ice in terms of actually improving a team's chances of winning. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the actual experts try as much as possible to build the analytics so that it's giving useful information about the player's impact in some sort of meaningfully transferrable way. I mean if dummies like you and me here on a hockey forum can conceptualize this potential issue (how can we use analytics to tell what impact a player might have from team to team?) I'm pretty sure the actual analytics nerds have thought of that issue too right? I'd be willing to bet any analytics guy working for any organization would be able to give you all kinds of detailed reasoning as to how they can use the data to get an idea about a player's potential impact. And as always, nobody anywhere is or has ever claimed analytics are some sort of end all perfect thing - they are ultimately just trying to increase your odds by a few percentage points...

But please, do carry on with the never-ending quest to end analytics.
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Also zero details

Analytics are largely driven by shot data, which is a team stat. Therefore, most analytics are great for assessing how a group of players on the ice together performs. That is where their usefullness is most pronounced, and where you'll see me using them

Again.. we have found someone who has announced to the world that they are incapable of nuanced thought. Never have I ever tried to "end analytics
 
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cbcwpg said:
Having a goalie like Helly ask to leave your team because he doesn't like the direction of the team, tells you the GM has not done his job in building a competitive team. It's an epic failure by the GM.
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How do you define "competitve"?

Seems like a team who is 4th for most regular season wins over the last three seasons is pretty competitive

I hate to see how you define "success" if that equals "failure" in your mind
 
cbcwpg said:
It's not how I define it, it's how the goalie who wants out defines it.
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Building the team thay Chevy has in this market is by no means a "failure" (whose word was that?)

We might not be a serious contender, but that's different than not being "competitive"
 
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