OT: Jets Lounge: Winds of Winter (no Star Wars spoilers!)

[nobody important]

Anyone else in Winnipeg, wake up and say **** it I'm staying in bed. Don't know how I'm going to make it to the game tonight, if it keeps falling like this.

Yep, but I'm retired. I did convince my wife to cancel her class today.

 

[Peter Tagli Eddie]

Biggest lie in all of automotive history.

Good at nothing, bad at everything!

 

[allan5oh]

That's great, but it's also anecdotal. I drove for far more than 10 years trouble free on all-seasons before switching to winter tires, and will never, ever go back. The safety margin between the two is huge.

"All-seasons" are a misnomer. The rubber compound and tread pattern of true winter tires are simply superior for the intended conditions, and it's not an arguable thing.

Agreed on all points here. I used to think the same. But it can be real scary going out to my parents just outside the city.

 

[irunthepeg]

I worked from home today for sure. Might do it tomorrow.

 

[Lempo]

Last winter I got legacy winter tires where most of the studs had gotten cut assumably on asphalt and it didn't take but one drive on an icy gravel road with my supposed M+S's to instantly guide me to tire shop for new properly studded ones. I re-studded the old ones and drove all last summer (and looks like a part of the next too) with them. They say that summer driving would practically melt the winter tires but I can't sign that.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

That's great, but it's also anecdotal. I drove for far more than 10 years trouble free on all-seasons before switching to winter tires, and will never, ever go back. The safety margin between the two is huge.

"All-seasons" are a misnomer. The rubber compound and tread pattern of true winter tires are simply superior for the intended conditions, and it's not an arguable thing.

Winter tires are likely better yes. Doesnt mean that all-seasons cant work or is a misnomer. You can certainly use them in all seasons.

If i regularly travelled outside perimeter in winter i could justify the expense. As is i barely ever leave city. I drive a little more carefully in winter but thats about it.

 

[LadyJet26]

Winter tires are likely better yes. Doesnt mean that all-seasons cant work or is a misnomer. You can certainly use them in all seasons.

If i regularly travelled outside perimeter in winter i could justify the expense. As is i barely ever leave city. I drive a little more carefully in winter but thats about it.

All seasons give you no traction whatsoever.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

All seasons give you no traction whatsoever.

Guess whos not getting a single ride anywhere until spring

 

[SoCalJetsFan]

Hi, transplanted Winnipeg'r here. Seen some pictures of the current storm. Looks like a good one. Makes me a bit homesick (likely only cause I don't have to shovel any of it). Anyway, drive safely to the game tonight I will be watching thanks to my NHL Center Ice package.

We are having some weather here today as well! There are actually clouds in the sky which is a bit strange for SoCal; nothing coming out of them of course but still there are clouds

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Winter tires are likely better yes. Doesnt mean that all-seasons cant work or is a misnomer. You can certainly use them in all seasons.

If i regularly travelled outside perimeter in winter i could justify the expense. As is i barely ever leave city. I drive a little more carefully in winter but thats about it.

I'm sorry, but all-season is a misnomer. And winter tires aren't likely better: they are better in the winter. Regardless of whether or not you leave the city, they still improve stopping distances, acceleration, and cornering under adverse conditions even within the city. The rubber compound used in winter tires stay much softer to a much, much lower temperature. It's one of the reasons you don't want to run winters in the summer - their life is greatly shortened when the temperature rises. It's also why "all-seasons" are inferior - in order to be able to last a reasonably period of time in the summer, the rubber compound is a compromise between summer and winter compounds.

I understand why people use all-seasons, but there's no way that you can convince me that they're the safest option for the winter. It's your choice as to whether or not you want to have decreased performance and safety in the winter, but I do want to ensure that others have proper information about why you'd want to run winter tires though.

Regarding cost: I see it as a way to extend the life of my high performance summer tires. It's not more costly - just a tiny pain when going from summer to winter. Given that I race cars, I've gotten tire changing down to 15-20m for all four, so it doesn't bug me at all. For others: some tire companies will store wheels/tires, and swap them for you when necessary. Even an hour of time twice a year shouldn't dissuade people from running the right tires in our Canadian weather, IMO.

 

[Lempo]

We are having some weather here today as well! There are actually clouds in the sky which is a bit strange for SoCal; nothing coming out of them of course but still there are clouds

Not the nimbocumulus!?

 

[wpgsilver]

I just purchased my first set of winter tires. Couldn't justify not getting them at this point. Gotta put safety first.

 

[buggs]

Biggest lie in all of automotive history.

My old car had Michelin Defenders on them and they weren't too bad, or at least were somewhat passable. But yes I much prefer winters and my little experiment failed miserably so for the most part I agree with you. You can get by with them but yeesh the difference is massive.

Hope your neighbours are home to push you into your garage.

Thankfully I was able to get in the driveway far enough but not too far and trudged the rest of the way to the trusty Ariens snowblower. Did my driveway, backed up, took a run at it and just managed to get into the garage. Then did four more driveways.

Ive only used all-seasons. In my 10 years of driving ive never had a problem.

Yup, I drove for nearly 20 years on "all season" tires before seeing the light. And I never did have a winter accident on all season tires. It's a big expense when you're not more settled, no question. But this little expedition today reminded me of why I've had them for over fifteen years, each and every winter.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Tires are like shoes. Theres no such thing as an all season shoe in manitoba

 

[blues10]

Good tire discussion on a snowy day As for cost, yes there is a price to having two sets of tires but it is well worth it in my opinion. I actually have two sets of tires and rims and my local garage only charges $39.99 to change them out in the fall and spring.

On the wife's vehicle we have gone all out studs on her last three vehicles. We use this vehicle for winter travelling. Well worth the cost even with a single set of rims.

If you can afford it you should really be running two sets of tires. MPI does have a program too. I would never drive on a single set of tires and my car has never left the Perimeter Hwy. in the winter.

https://www.mpi.mb.ca/en/Rd-Safety/Winter-Tires/Pages/winter-tire-program-overview.aspx

Quebec actually has a law requiring winter tires.

https://saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/road-safety/behaviours/adapting-your-driving/winter-driving/

Drive Safely!

 

[nobody important]

Thankfully I was able to get in the driveway far enough but not too far and trudged the rest of the way to the trusty Ariens snowblower. Did my driveway, backed up, took a run at it and just managed to get into the garage. Then did four more driveways.

Aren't you a wonderful neighbour. That's got to be worth a few hundred points toward The Good Place.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I'm sorry, but all-season is a misnomer. And winter tires aren't likely better: they are better in the winter. Regardless of whether or not you leave the city, they still improve stopping distances, acceleration, and cornering under adverse conditions even within the city. The rubber compound used in winter tires stay much softer to a much, much lower temperature. It's one of the reasons you don't want to run winters in the summer - their life is greatly shortened when the temperature rises. It's also why "all-seasons" are inferior - in order to be able to last a reasonably period of time in the summer, the rubber compound is a compromise between summer and winter compounds.

I understand why people use all-seasons, but there's no way that you can convince me that they're the safest option for the winter. It's your choice as to whether or not you want to have decreased performance and safety in the winter, but I do want to ensure that others have proper information about why you'd want to run winter tires though.

Regarding cost: I see it as a way to extend the life of my high performance summer tires. It's not more costly - just a tiny pain when going from summer to winter. Given that I race cars, I've gotten tire changing down to 15-20m for all four, so it doesn't bug me at all. For others: some tire companies will store wheels/tires, and swap them for you when necessary. Even an hour of time twice a year shouldn't dissuade people from running the right tires in our Canadian weather, IMO.

Im not trying to argue against winter tires being better in winter. But something can be all-whatever while still having something specialized for one reason is better. That doesnt make it a misnomer that the all-whatever is called all-whatever.

Ive driven cars with winter tires on. I think you all are overstating their benefits, imo. Yes they are better. But not as much as stated. For reasonable drivers in the city they are not neccessary. All the more power to you if you want to use them but i think being a smarter driver is vastly more important and the difference maker, not the tires.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

You're welcome to your opinion. That opinion is incorrect, however, as it flies in the face of hard facts. Sorry - not going to convince me that winter tires are not far superior and safer than "all season" tires. Winter tires typically outperform "all season" tires by a factor of 5-20%, depending on the activity and the amount of ice/snow on the road. This is fact.

If you needed to come to an emergency stop, and the car with winter tires could come to that stop in 60 feet with 5-10 feet to spare: what do you think the result would be with "all-season" tires? You'd be making an insurance report. As good a driver as you may be, there's always the unexpected. I typically drive like people are out to kill me (as a result of riding a motorcycle), but idiots still do things that are unexpected. You can't control these things, but you can give yourself a better chance of not becoming involved in the accident.

I will agree that all-season tires are better than summer tires in winter. This is due to the compound. Winter tires are vastly superior in winter conditions though, as they have a much softer compound and more aggressive tread patterns. This is fact, no matter how much you may argue otherwise. All seasons is a misnomer. "Not as bad as summer tires in non-extreme winter conditions" is probably a better description, but that doesn't roll off the tongue on the marketing side.

Edit: in the end, you may not see me as being someone who can reasonably speak on the benefits of tires, even given that I build and race cars, and used to race motorcycles, and have spent literally 10's of thousands on tires over the years for my street and track cars. Go read some articles on winter versus "all-season" tires - I can guarantee you won't find anyone who is respected in the car industry that would not choose them in the winter, for both performance and safety reasons. In the end, it's your choice, but I urge people to gather as much knowledge as they can on the subject before dismissing the benefits of snow tires.

 

[Jetabre]

Tires are like shoes. Theres no such thing as an all season shoe in manitoba

I wear sneakers all year round..

And all-season tires as well for my car.

 

[wpgsilver]

I've always found that after the plows have been out and sand is on the road my all-seasons work fine. The issue arises when that hasn't occurred yet. I've just reached the point where I'd rather have solid traction* all winter regardless of the weather conditions.

The cost is also negligible. Over the life of the tires its a worthwhile investment as far as I'm concerned.

*obviously no tire erases the risk, but winter tires do a heck of a job minimizing it.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

You're welcome to your opinion. That opinion is incorrect, however, as it flies in the face of hard facts. Sorry - not going to convince me that winter tires are not far superior and safer than "all season" tires. Winter tires typically outperform "all season" tires by a factor of 5-20%, depending on the activity and the amount of ice/snow on the road. This is fact.

If you needed to come to an emergency stop, and the car with winter tires could come to that stop in 60 feet with 5-10 feet to spare: what do you think the result would be with "all-season" tires? You'd be making an insurance report. As good a driver as you may be, there's always the unexpected. I typically drive like people are out to kill me (as a result of riding a motorcycle), but idiots still do things that are unexpected. You can't control these things, but you can give yourself a better chance of not becoming involved in the accident.

I will agree that all-season tires are better than summer tires in winter. This is due to the compound. Winter tires are vastly superior in winter conditions though, as they have a much softer compound and more aggressive tread patterns. This is fact, no matter how much you may argue otherwise. All seasons is a misnomer. "Not as bad as summer tires in non-extreme winter conditions" is probably a better description, but that doesn't roll off the tongue on the marketing side.

Edit: in the end, you may not see me as being someone who can reasonably speak on the benefits of tires, even given that I build and race cars, and used to race motorcycles, and have spent literally 10's of thousands on tires over the years for my street and track cars. Go read some articles on winter versus "all-season" tires - I can guarantee you won't find anyone who is respected in the car industry that would not choose them in the winter, for both performance and safety reasons. In the end, it's your choice, but I urge people to gather as much knowledge as they can on the subject before dismissing the benefits of snow tires.

We arguing at cross purposes here. Im not saying you are unreliable. I am not saying all seasons are better.

I am saying you are misusing the word misnomer. All-seasons does not mean they will outperform winter tires. Just like how a "general contractor" will likely not out perform a plumber at plumbing work. Does not mean the general contractor cant do the job.

I am also saying that being a responsible driver is vastly more important than tire choice. I dont see that as questionable myself.

And i am saying if your a good defensive city only driver you are ok with all-seasons. Winters are preferable but its not at all neccessary. We can agree to disagree on the last point i guess.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

We arguing at cross purposes here. Im not saying you are unreliable. I am not saying all seasons are better.

I am saying you are misusing the word misnomer. All-seasons does not mean they will outperform winter tires. Just like how a "general contractor" will likely not out perform a plumber at plumbing work. Does not mean the general contractor cant do the job.

But it is a misnomer. I am not using the term incorrectly - they are NOT all-season tires. They are tires that work over an expanded range of temperatures and conditions, but they are not as good a true summer tires in the summer, and are no where near as good as winter tires in the winter. It is a marketing term. It is not truth - it is a half truth.

I am also saying that being a responsible driver is vastly more important than tire choice. I dont see that as questionable myself.

Being a safe and responsible driver is not questionable, true. But dealing with emergencies and giving yourself a greater chance of escaping unhurt when the unexpected arises - that's what winter tires give you in the winter. No where did I state that winter tires give you carte blanche to be irresponsible - this is a strawman.

And i am saying if your a good defensive city only driver you are ok with all-seasons. Winters are preferable but its not at all neccessary. We can agree to disagree on the last point i guess.

You might be OK - the idiot drivers around you is not something you can control. I have never said that winter tires are necessary - this is another strawman. Your choice is your choice, even if it's not optimal. I just want to espouse winter tires as it could potentially save someone's life if the worst should happen.

I consider myself to be an extremely good driver - I have driven VERY high performance cars at their limits (and sometimes beyond) , including open wheel formula style cars on tracks like Mosport and Shannonville, both for fun and in Solo I and II time-trials. I think I'm most likely a better driver when it comes to car control than probably 95% of the people on the road, simply because I know what the limits of cars are, and how far you can truly push them, and how to control them on the limit.

Still: I drive on winter tires. And I drive responsibly day to day. I still can't control what others do around me, so I want to give myself the best chance of being able to avoid unexpected situations when someone does something unreasonable on the road. And you know what? It's actually fun knowing that the car has a level of control that you will not get with all-seasons.

Anyway: I'm not going to convince you, and I'm not really trying to - I just hope I provided some useful information to others during my rants.

 

[LadyJet26]

Guess whos not getting a single ride anywhere until spring

Guess whos not getting any home cooking then.

The man will shop at Sobey's and pay outrageous prices for the same that's 3 bucks cheaper at Superstore, but won't spend money on his car to make it safer. Reminder, you need to get lights.

 

[wpgsilver]

Guess whos not getting any home cooking then.

The man will shop at Sobey's and pay outrageous prices for the same that's 3 bucks cheaper at Superstore, but won't spend money on his car to make it safer. Reminder, you need to get lights.

For his car?
Nah, he's got all-seasons!

 

[flyingkiwi]

Gin must be ballin'

Add tires to the reason I should be grateful there's no snow here.