Post-Game Talk: Jets lose 3-0.

[YWGinYYZ]

And if this trend continues, I'll welcome his firing. I've been an ardent Noel supporter, but he hasn't done anything with this team yet. He has the supposed roster now - make it work, Noel.

Good coach, bad coach: doesn't matter much either way if he's getting tuned out, or can't find a way to motivate the players. I wouldn't say I'm an ardent Noel supporter, but I do like the man - I agree that he has to find a way to make this work.

I still believe that this team has enough talent, size and speed to contend for a playoff spot. As positive as I try to remain, if Noel can't do it then a coaching change may be the impetus required for the collected talent to play as they should.

It depends on how Chevy sees it - does he feel he's put together a strong enough roster to compete? Then there's only one other solution. I guess we'll see soon enough. If they continue to chase from the bottom of the standings, I could see something happening to shake things up.

 

[viper0220]

And around and around we go. Something will have to give here with this team, eventually. Either they figure it out or a change somewhere within the team (coach) or roster (players) may be coming.

If we're looking at a roster move, I am personally hoping we have exactly what a fluttering Eastern Conference team needs and/or wants. I am all for a deal with Philadelphia for Brayden Schenn with Byfuglien going the other way. If that is even realistic or possible.

There may be other parts in the deal, that is likely, salary would have to work, etc.. but I am holding out hope at this point we make a move to shake up the core, changing things a bit. Year 3, and for 3 consecutive years this team is just... the same.

I don't know why people keep saying that Byfuglien for Schenn(s), that is not a good move for the Jets. We can get a better package, Brayden Schenn won't solve our problem of number 1 centre and Luke Schenn is bottom pairing defence men. Before we make any major moves, I really hope we change head coaches and see how that works(we will then know if Noel is indeed the problem).

 

[SensibleGuy]

the way I see it, right from day one this team has been a bit of a psychological mess. They have a well-established habit of coming out flat in games they should dominate and then looking like world-beaters against teams that should be able to kill them. They are also notorious for starting slow and they go through long bouts of scoring slumps and huge defensive lapses. I just feel like there is a fundamental disconnect between the coaching staff and the group of players we have assembled. It seems like what's been assembled is a group of "nice guys" being coached by a "nice guy." Noel is a "teacher" who wants to "help" his group succeed. I'm starting to think this group needs more of an ass-kicker...a guy who is going to make them fear the locker room after a loss...

 

[surixon]

And around and around we go. Something will have to give here with this team, eventually. Either they figure it out or a change somewhere within the team (coach) or roster (players) may be coming.

If we're looking at a roster move, I am personally hoping we have exactly what a fluttering Eastern Conference team needs and/or wants. I am all for a deal with Philadelphia for Brayden Schenn with Byfuglien going the other way. If that is even realistic or possible.

There may be other parts in the deal, that is likely, salary would have to work, etc.. but I am holding out hope at this point we make a move to shake up the core, changing things a bit. Year 3, and for 3 consecutive years this team is just... the same.

Not the least bit interested in the Schenn's. Luke Schenn isn't much if any better than Stuart and Brayden isn't what he's cracked up to be. If we trade Buff I want a legit 2nd pairing defenseman and a gritty winger. I'd do Couborn and Simmonds.

 

[Guerzy]

Not the least bit interested in the Schenn's. Luke Schenn isn't much if any better than Stuart and Brayden isn't what he's cracked up to be. If we trade Buff I want a legit 2nd pairing defenseman and a gritty winger. I'd do Couborn and Simmonds.

I'd be for that, for sure.

What's up with Brayden Schenn? Part of me still think he surely has the tools and talent to be a top line guy, or real legit top 6 guy.

I know Luke is on a pretty big downfall, which is too bad.

I don't know all of the ins and outs on Brayden, but I still think he can be a legit player. If there is a prospect I like it's Scott Laughton. Offensively gifted, very gritty. I think his game projects well for the NHL.

 

[viper0220]

the way I see it, right from day one this team has been a bit of a psychological mess. They have a well-established habit of coming out flat in games they should dominate and then looking like world-beaters against teams that should be able to kill them. They are also notorious for starting slow and they go through long bouts of scoring slumps and huge defensive lapses. I just feel like there is a fundamental disconnect between the coaching staff and the group of players we have assembled. It seems like what's been assembled is a group of "nice guys" being coached by a "nice guy." Noel is a "teacher" who wants to "help" his group succeed. I'm starting to think this group needs more of an ass-kicker...a guy who is going to make them fear the locker room after a loss...

You are 100% correct SensibleGuy, I don't think that any one move is going to fix this team(well only if you get Sidney Crosby), the problem with this team(going back to the Atlanta days) is that they never had any Head coach who held the team responsible and they never had a hard ass coach that made them fear the lock room. Are there any out there that are available, I don't know. I think the problem here is the coaching staff has lost the players. No one trade is going to fix that.

 

[Guerzy]

I am of the belief that we do indeed have enough talent on this roster to win. I am also of the belief that there is indeed a disconnect between the coach (Noel) and the players. Something is clearly not working here as we're in year 3. That fact this group cannot start a game like they want to win is telling, and quite frankly very concerning.

If the fit isn't there... it just isn't. You can't force it. This is year 3, and by all indications I think the talent on the roster has improved. But, even with that said, Chevy has completely re-tooled this supporting cast to his own liking, and locked up who he has deemed the core.

If this continues, I think something has to give here. Either the coach has to be changed or a significant player traded to help alter the room and feel of this group. Byfuglien seems like the most obvious choice, especially with the emergence, albeit small sample size, of Jacob Trouba.

I am getting firmer and firmer in my beliefs of two things; 1.) Noel is of no fit for this group and 2.) This group needs altered via Dustin Byfuglien given I believe he's our most logical trade piece who could net a great return.

Maybe one of those two options has to happen, maybe both.

 

[surixon]

I am of the belief that we do indeed have enough talent on this roster to win. I am also of the belief that there is indeed a disconnect between the coach (Noel) and the players. Something is clearly not working here as we're in year 3. That fact this group cannot start a game like they want to win is telling, and quite frankly very concerning.

If the fit isn't there... it just isn't. You can't force it. This is year 3, and by all indications I think the talent on the roster has improved. But, even with that said, Chevy has completely re-tooled this supporting cast to his own liking, and locked up who he has deemed the core.

If this continues, I think something has to give here. Either the coach has to be changed or a significant player traded to help alter the room and feel of this group. Byfuglien seems like the most obvious choice, especially with the emergence, albeit small sample size, of Jacob Trouba.

I am getting firmer and firmer in my beliefs of two things; 1.) Noel is of no fit for this group and 2.) This group needs altered via Dustin Byfuglien given I believe he's our most logical trade piece who could net a great return.

Maybe one of those two options has to happen, maybe both.

I agree with this post. Another idea is to strip the letters from Olli and Stuart and give them to Kane and Bogo. Those two always seem to play hard and as Lawless said it really is their team now and going forward with Scheifele and Trouba joining the ranks. Other than Ladd it seems the alternates were chosen based on experience and not performance which to me sends the wrong message. I know you don't need a letter to lead but having youralternates and captain play hard eevery night helps to set the tone.

 

[viper0220]

I agree with this post. Another idea is to strip the letters from Olli and Stuart and give them to Kane and Bogo. Those two always seem to play hard and as Lawless said it really is their team now and going forward with Scheifele and Trouba joining the ranks. Other than Ladd it seems the alternates were chosen based on experience and not performance which to me sends the wrong message. I know you don't need a letter to lead but having youralternates and captain play hard eevery night helps to set the tone.

This is where the ocaching staff comes in but...

 

[theamazingchris]

Just my two cents... I agree with the "too many shots from the outside" thing, but to be frank, if Price kicked out a couple more rebounds, and Ladd didn't have the puck bounce on him, this could easily have been a win. Credit to Price for being 100% solid all game.

We don't look confident out of the gate. But we should be! There's a lot of quality talent on this roster. I don't know why that is, but hope it gets fixed soon.

 

[Huffer]

Very frustrating to watch the Jets start another game like that. In the Dallas game you could make the case that the second half where the Jets looked better was because Dallas already had a 4 goal lead, and Dallas let off the gas.

I don't agree that you can make that case last night. No team in the NHL lets off the gas with 50 minutes left only up by 2. The Jets completely titled the ice in their favour for the last 50 minutes or so, but more often than not you're going to lose after spotting the opposition a 2-0 lead.

Not happy with the loss as I think we needed to capitalize on this early home-stand to have a good shot at the playoffs. There were some positives as well I thought though (as much as their can be in a loss I guess).

+
Scheifele and Trouba looked good again.
Kane brings max effort every night
Hitting after the 10 minute mark (why does the team not realize that this is the key to their success?)

-
Brutal Start again, no hitting or intensity for the first 10 minutes
Wheeler looks lost or in a fog
Noel's usage of Frolik? Why are we not using a guy that was on the PK for the Cup champs after acquiring him?

On Bogo, I think he's had a decent start. Had mostly good games with some bad stretches in there. Really like how he's adjusting to the left so he can play with Trouba. I just wanted to throw out there that I don't think he is skating like he can, or how he has in the past. Not looking for excuses, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear he is nursing some sort of lower body thing. Nothing major, but something doesn't look right in his stride.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Just my two cents... I agree with the "too many shots from the outside" thing, but to be frank, if Price kicked out a couple more rebounds, and Ladd didn't have the puck bounce on him, this could easily have been a win. Credit to Price for being 100% solid all game.

true, but let's not forget that in the second period, Montreal had at least 3 golden scoring chances that they only missed because the puck bounced. The game could just as easily have been 5 nil...

 

[Howard Chuck]

Well, most of it has been said already. I did enjoy the game after the first 10 minutes, I thought we mostly played pretty good with some exceptions to follow:

Checking - I saw so many Jets D trying to check in our own end by sticking the tip of their stick in the general direction of the boards/puck. I know I'll get flamed for this, but Enstrom was the biggest problem there. He had other moments where he did well, but he can't win a board battle (or even enter one). Every time the D was physical, they were able to control the puck and get it out.

Still on D - why do we circle back into our own end so much? I understand there are times when you have to, but we do it so much and then end up getting forechecked in our own end! We are easy pickings for forecheckers because we seem to think we have all the time in the world in our end. Watch any other team, and they are hustling to get the damn puck out of their zone. Too many times, we skate lazily in and then stop with the puck on the boards..... then the forechecker is right behind them. Trouba is my favorite at swooping in and grabbing the puck and finding a pass or a carry because forecheckers haven't had a chance to catch up yet.

Forwards - We have too may big guys who have zero physicality to their game. If we start hitting, we start winning battles. You could see it easily last night. Play like you mean it or sit on the bench (Wheeler). These players are taking up a roster spot, nothing more.

PP - Everyone knows that we're only going to shoot from the point. I know it, so I'm sure our opponent knows it. It doesn't even matter if someone down low is open, it still goes to the point. If it goes anywhere else, it's to the boards. One more thing... why do we have to stop the puck, then look around then shoot? By that time our opponent has seen who has the puck and is blocking or pressuring us. Everyone else plays such a fast game while on PP.

PK - hard to say too much bad when we did well last night, but we still collapse as pylons around the goaltender. We don't pressure much at all (please see the part about reaching with the tip of a stick previously).

Most of this around being faster, and more observant when out there. Maybe it's around keeping lines together more so that players are more familiar with where their line mates are? Noel has to start rewarding those who play well and benching those who don't. Unfortunately, I don't think his idea of great play is going to win us games. Case in point.... in the first couple of games, we were flying out there and scoring goals, we were all giddy regarding the secondary scoring we had. Then Noel started harping about playing defence. Well he's right in that you have to play defence as well, but your talented scoring forwards should be free to go score, leaving MOST defence to your defencemen (to a point). I feel that our talented scoring guys are being held back by being afraid of being to offence minded. You certainly haven't seen our recent opponents afraid of being deep in the offensive zone forechecking. Too many times, we shoot the puck in and retreat.

OK, there were many positives last night of course, but that was my rant.

I agree with most here who say we need a shake up. The rationale that it's 'early' in the season is growing thin. Aside from a couple of guys, we look uninterested and lazy. I too think that Noel has lost the room, and that we have the talent to win many more games than we lose. They just have to be provided with motivation and system that works.

 

[theamazingchris]

true, but let's not forget that in the second period, Montreal had at least 3 golden scoring chances that they only missed because the puck bounced. The game could just as easily have been 5 nil...

Point is, the game was closer than the score made it look. I'm happiest about our play in this game so far, other than the NJ game.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Point is, the game was closer than the score made it look. I'm happiest about our play in this game so far, other than the NJ game.

In spite of my long rant, I did enjoy watching this game more than most this season. i actually looked at the time remaining in the third and was relieved to find that I still had 12 hockey minutes left to watch

 

[SensibleGuy]

Still on D - why do we circle back into our own end so much? I understand there are times when you have to, but we do it so much and then end up getting forechecked in our own end! We are easy pickings for forecheckers because we seem to think we have all the time in the world in our end. Watch any other team, and they are hustling to get the damn puck out of their zone. Too many times, we skate lazily in and then stop with the puck on the boards..... then the forechecker is right behind them. Trouba is my favorite at swooping in and grabbing the puck and finding a pass or a carry because forecheckers haven't had a chance to catch up yet.

this is something that is very very frustrating to me. So often, our D (and its primarily Buff and Enstrom) look so casual and non chalant as they go back to get the puck in our zone. Its like there's all the time in the world and no need to rush man! What's the hurry?? No urgency - sometimes its even with a minute to go and down by one. And yes, the constant circling back looking for the perfect pass or whatever. Maybe its our forwards who aren't getting themselves in the right spot, but something has to be done to fix it...

 

[theamazingchris]

In spite of my long rant, I did enjoy watching this game more than most this season. i actually looked at the time remaining in the third and was relieved to find that I still had 12 hockey minutes left to watch

I know most people say they'd rather see a bad win than a good loss, but frankly, I'm the opposite. Am I a bad fan?

 

[tbcwpg]

I do not want to dive into the Pavelec pool again lest I be called 'biased'

I wouldn't pin this loss on Pav. You have to score to have a chance to win. However, I thought that first goal was pretty weak and if you've played hockey you know that a goal like that can really suck the life out of a team. If Pavelec makes that save? Who knows.

At any rate, that start was inexplicably horrid AGAIN but other than that I actually feel pretty positive about this game. We played plenty well enough to win after getting down 2-0 which is very encouraging.

The most comforting thing is that despite being awful in about 80% of game time so far this season, the Jets are 3-4. It could be much worse. Hoping that the Blues bring out the best in us.

As a matter of fact, considering the Jets have been pretty good for the MOST part in the last 2 games, I'm going to leave the Jets roller going UP

I think that the team being unable to clear the puck for 2 minutes sucks the life out of the team as well. That goal was inevitable. It was like they had a 5-on-3.

You can really tell (not you, Jet) the opinions of some posters towards certain players, best after this type of game. A goalie comes in and steals a game for the opposition. Pavelec was pretty good, made saves in the 2nd and 3rd when he needed to, to keep the team in the game. However, the goals were "soft". Kane takes a number of offensive zone penalties, and not "playing hard" penalties, but hooking and holding, and he's "playing with passion".

Wheeler was terrible, though, he started 2011 terribly and ended up one of our best forwards. I am still holding out judgment on him until at least November.

 

[SensibleGuy]

In spite of my long rant, I did enjoy watching this game more than most this season. i actually looked at the time remaining in the third and was relieved to find that I still had 12 hockey minutes left to watch

I didn't. Normally I might have, but I just never had a feeling like we were going to score. Even when we were buzzing around their goal, Price seemed so completely in control that I never felt like there was any real chance we were going to come back.

 

[sipowicz]

Expanding on what Howard said, the core of the group is in it's third season with Noel at the helm, if what he's telling them and teaching them isn't bringing results and the systems he has implemented are'nt working what choice do the players have but to tune him out, if you don't have faith in the coach the coach has lost the room. IMO

 

[Guerzy]

Expanding on what Howard said, the core of the group is in it's third season with Noel at the helm, if what he's telling them and teaching them isn't bringing results and the systems he has implemented are'nt working what choice do the players have but to tune him out, if you don't have faith in the coach the coach has lost the room. IMO

Valid points. And as someone mentioned the other day, it's easier to get rid of the coach than the entire stable of players, or half of them. I am not a Claude Noel hater, never have been since he was hired. But something has to give here *if* this team doesn't turn it around soon. This is all basic stuff. Starting a game from puck-drop like you want to win. Acknowledging that your starts have to be better, yet you begin a game and they're crap. Why? What gives? Something isn't right here.

The catching point here for me is, and I know I am on repeat with this, but it rings so true to me. Cheveldayoff signed and locked up this "core" of Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Enstrom, Bogosian, Pavelec. Those guys, by all indications, are here, and here to stay (for now anyway).

We've seen our two most prized prospects enter the NHL, on Cheveldayoff's watch, they're his guys.

Supporting cast? Well, they're all Cheveldayoff's as well. Setoguchi, Frolik, Jokinen, Tangradi, Halischuk, Wright, Peluso, Clitsome, Montoya.

I know I am a broken record on this, but, all signs point to the coach here. The team, it's core, it's young and prized prospects have all been shaped by the GM, Chevy... if Noel can't coach this group, by year 3 here... what gives?

 

[SensibleGuy]

I think that the team being unable to clear the puck for 2 minutes sucks the life out of the team as well. That goal was inevitable. It was like they had a 5-on-3.

that opening couple of minutes was literally unbelievable. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. How can you not even manage to ice the puck over that span of time?? We really didn't even manage to touch the friggin thing for nearly 2 minutes! "Inevitable" is definitely the word for that first goal...

 

[sipowicz]

that opening couple of minutes was literally unbelievable. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. How can you not even manage to ice the puck over that span of time?? We really didn't even manage to touch the friggin thing for nearly 2 minutes! "Inevitable" is definitely the word for that first goal...

Those first two minutes set the tone for the game, Montreal knew it, fans watching new it. Believe it was trouba and Bogo on D working their butts off with little to no support from the forwards, can't remember what line was out, think it was Ladd-schief

 

[Burke the Legend]

Guys, I'm an habs fan and I have to say that I love Trouba, that kid is simply awesome, you have a diamond in your hands, I think that he will be the best dman of his draft year.

Same.. I thought he was a forward until I looked him up. He covered so much ice.

 

[Duke749]

I think that the team being unable to clear the puck for 2 minutes sucks the life out of the team as well. That goal was inevitable. It was like they had a 5-on-3.

Yeah, that was pretty dam embarrassing. To come out at home like that and look like you're down a man like that? Complete garbage.

Valid points. And as someone mentioned the other day, it's easier to get rid of the coach than the entire stable of players, or half of them. I am not a Claude Noel hater, never have been since he was hired. But something has to give here *if* this team doesn't turn it around soon. This is all basic stuff. Starting a game from puck-drop like you want to win. Acknowledging that your starts have to be better, yet you begin a game and they're crap. Why? What gives? Something isn't right here.

The catching point here for me is, and I know I am on repeat with this, but it rings so true to me. Cheveldayoff signed and locked up this "core" of Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Enstrom, Bogosian, Pavelec. Those guys, by all indications, are here, and here to stay (for now anyway).

We've seen our two most prized prospects enter the NHL, on Cheveldayoff's watch, they're his guys.

Supporting cast? Well, they're all Cheveldayoff's as well. Setoguchi, Frolik, Jokinen, Tangradi, Halischuk, Wright, Peluso, Clitsome, Montoya.

I know I am a broken record on this, but, all signs point to the coach here. The team, it's core, it's young and prized prospects have all been shaped by the GM, Chevy... if Noel can't coach this group, by year 3 here... what gives?

Hard for me to disagree here. It's the same issues in year 3 as year 1. That shouldn't be happening. People can make excuses about how the first year was a freebie and they had a lockout the 2nd, but now this year with a full training camp and pre-season, we've come out flat several times and just look like we don't care as a group.

Like you said, something has to give, and soon. I can't see Chevy sitting on his hands very long with these kinds of results.