Confirmed with Link: Jets/Buffalo Blockbuster! part II (Kane and Bogo)

[MrBoJangelz71]

That is not what I have seen. Point of view perhaps. I see Chevy defenders insisting that every bit of good fortune is another example of Chevy's brilliance.

10 would be a bit of a stretch but I can give you some and that is the point. It is the whole point and it stands on its own. It neither glorifies nor vilifies Chevy. He was lucky to get Laine. Winning a lottery is lucky. He was lucky to get Connor with the 17th pick. The events that lead to that were beyond his control and yet the cards fell in his favour. He did not arrange for Sweeney to draft badly 3 consecutive times in front of him.

Chevy has made some good moves and some bad ones. He has had a little luck on his side. All in all he has done a good, not great job as GM of the Jets. If we compare GM's we find they all have a mixed record. Some a little better than most, some a little worse. It is easy to find a few GM's who have been worse than Chevy. It is harder to find some who have been better but there are a few. Any I name though will generate endless argument.

To take it a little further, drafting 17-18 year old kids is such a gamble at any time that we could say that every one who succeeds is a lucky pick and every one who busts is an unlucky pick. I'm not going quite that far though. I'm only saying that Chevy has had access to some players ranked higher than his draft position due to some good luck in that things worked out the way they did.

All I have to do is say something like 'we were lucky to get Connor at 17' to bring out Chevy defenders objecting to the statement because they perceive it as an attack on him as a GM. Well it is not. It is simply stating an undeniable fact.

I am not judging Chevy's skill as a GM, by our draft position.

The reality of that situation is, the lower we draft, the worse job he is doing. That, and he has absolutely no control on how the lottery plays out, so whether we consider it luck or not, makes no difference since it has nothing to do with Chevy's skills as a GM.

Is Chevy lucky that certain players fell in the draft? Sure, as well as the entire organization and its fans being lucky. Its not a GM's only luck kinda thing.

When I am assessing and determining Chevy's skill as a GM, I am looking more so at his ability to manage our cap situation, the contracts and players he signs long term, his overall drafting, i.e. are we improving our overall organizational skill, year to year; his trading ability and his human resource management; i.e. is he hiring the right people for the right positions.

When I do credit Chevy on his drafting I look more towards the picks that were considered "off" the board, like Scheif, or his later picks that have worked well so far like Lowry, Copp, Petan and Helly.

So, for me, getting Laine at 2, Connor at 17 and Trouba at 9 has nothing to do with Chevy being lucky because he had no effect or influence on the outcome.

it's a bigger entity getting lucky than just our GM, but sure, you can attribute some of Chevy's, TNSE, and our success to luck.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I am not judging Chevy's skill as a GM, by our draft position.

The reality of that situation is, the lower we draft, the worse job he is doing. That, and he has absolutely no control on how the lottery plays out, so whether we consider it luck or not, makes no difference since it has nothing to do with Chevy's skills as a GM. It does affect our evaluation of his skills because it affects the level of his success.

Is Chevy lucky that certain players fell in the draft? Sure, as well as the entire organization and its fans being lucky. Its not a GM's only luck kinda thing. Yes, his luck is also our luck.

When I am assessing and determining Chevy's skill as a GM, I am looking more so at his ability to manage our cap situation, the contracts and players he signs long term, his overall drafting, i.e. are we improving our overall organizational skill, year to year; his trading ability and his human resource management; i.e. is he hiring the right people for the right positions. I sum that up by looking at the state of the team, including the prospect pool, the Moose, etc.

When I do credit Chevy on his drafting I look more towards the picks that were considered "off" the board, like Scheif, or his later picks that have worked well so far like Lowry, Copp, Petan and Helly. I think it is still premature to talk about his later picks. All 4 of those may be in the AHL this year even though some have had considerable NHL time already. There is a lot of promise in the later round picks but no complete success yet. I expect Lowry to bounce back and earn a regular position this year but I'm withholding judgement until he does. Judging drafting I do the same as I do for the bigger picture. I look at the whole body rather than individuals. JMO but I think that is the way to judge the guy at the top who is responsible for the whole thing. Chevy's body of drafted players appears well above average to me, luck or no luck.

So, for me, getting Laine at 2, Connor at 17 and Trouba at 9 has nothing to do with Chevy being lucky because he had no effect or influence on the outcome. That sounds exactly backwards. Those things coming available to him were beyond his control. Therefore - lucky.

it's a bigger entity getting lucky than just our GM, but sure, you can attribute some of Chevy's, TNSE, and our success to luck.

I agree with much of this. That is the overall tone of the post. Not some of the specifics.

Oddly enough we seem to have drifted OT. The Buffalo trade thread turned into an 'Evaluate Chevy' thread. To try to get back to the topic of the thread, I can see where people are coming from when they say Chevy was lucky in the Buffalo trade. There was a fit with Buffalo at a convenient time but I still don't characterize the trade as lucky IMO. It takes a fit for every trade. If Buffalo hadn't been in the position they were then there were other avenues to explore to deal with the 'Track Suit Immersion'.

The debate about how Chevy handled EK for 4 years will never end. It certainly could have been done differently. It maybe could have been done better. In the end we got good value in return for what we gave up and we ended the ongoing Kane situation for the Jets. Hindsight says we got out in the nick of time. Kudos to Chevy.

 

[Whileee]

I am not judging Chevy's skill as a GM, by our draft position.

The reality of that situation is, the lower we draft, the worse job he is doing. That, and he has absolutely no control on how the lottery plays out, so whether we consider it luck or not, makes no difference since it has nothing to do with Chevy's skills as a GM.

Is Chevy lucky that certain players fell in the draft? Sure, as well as the entire organization and its fans being lucky. Its not a GM's only luck kinda thing.

When I am assessing and determining Chevy's skill as a GM, I am looking more so at his ability to manage our cap situation, the contracts and players he signs long term, his overall drafting, i.e. are we improving our overall organizational skill, year to year; his trading ability and his human resource management; i.e. is he hiring the right people for the right positions.

When I do credit Chevy on his drafting I look more towards the picks that were considered "off" the board, like Scheif, or his later picks that have worked well so far like Lowry, Copp, Petan and Helly.

So, for me, getting Laine at 2, Connor at 17 and Trouba at 9 has nothing to do with Chevy being lucky because he had no effect or influence on the outcome.

it's a bigger entity getting lucky than just our GM, but sure, you can attribute some of Chevy's, TNSE, and our success to luck.

I agree with this. The only thought I'd add is that other GMs haven't always capitalized on fortune when it presented itself at the draft, and Chevy generally has. The NYI selected Strome, Griffin Reinhart and Michael Dal Colle ahead of Scheifele, Trouba and Ehlers. GM Snow missed the opportunity to have a much stronger team because he didn't take the BPA. Similarly, in the 2015 draft Boston and Dallas had the good fortune of having Connor available to them in the 1st round, but took other prospects (Gurianov, Zboril, Senyshyn, DeBrusk). It's a zero sum game. If other GMs made unwise choices in the draft and Chevy benefitted it just means that he and the Jets end up ahead. Over time, the more effective GMs make fewer mistakes than their counterparts, at the draft, in free agency and through trades.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Oddly enough we seem to have drifted OT. The Buffalo trade thread turned into an 'Evaluate Chevy' thread.

It's not odd. It's actually incredibly common.

The trade is looking better and better, IMO. Some luck in terms of timing for a trade partner combined with a surprising amount of chutzpah on Chevy's part to put one of the biggest trades together of the last few years resulted in some very good looking pieces moving forward. Kane's inability to stay out of trouble is the icing on the cake for this trade. I loved watching him on the ice, but I'm glad he's someone else's problem now.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I agree with much of this. That is the overall tone of the post. Not some of the specifics.

Oddly enough we seem to have drifted OT. The Buffalo trade thread turned into an 'Evaluate Chevy' thread. To try to get back to the topic of the thread, I can see where people are coming from when they say Chevy was lucky in the Buffalo trade. There was a fit with Buffalo at a convenient time but I still don't characterize the trade as lucky IMO. It takes a fit for every trade. If Buffalo hadn't been in the position they were then there were other avenues to explore to deal with the 'Track Suit Immersion'.

The debate about how Chevy handled EK for 4 years will never end. It certainly could have been done differently. It maybe could have been done better. In the end we got good value in return for what we gave up and we ended the ongoing Kane situation for the Jets. Hindsight says we got out in the nick of time. Kudos to Chevy.

Its Chevy's biggest trade, and only one of few to assess, so it gets most attention, that and Kane being the lighting rod for attention that he is.

Was it a lucky trade? I don't think so at all.

The right deal presented itself to Chevy and he acted accordingly. Had the right deal not been available, Chevy would have remained patient until it one did, IMO. He wasn't going to let Kane go for peanuts.

Was he lucky he didn't have to wait till the offseason to get a deal done? Sure, but whose to say a deal down the road, that could have presented itself, may have been a better haul than the what the Sabre
deal brought us?

Is the organization, Chevy included, lucky that the deal was done prior to Kane's latest antics, legal and organizationally embarrassing antics?
Absolutely, thankfully the team was able to rid itself of his poor character, hats off to Chevy for getting it done at full value.

 

[CaptainChef]

Its Chevy's biggest trade, and only one of few to assess, so it gets most attention, that and Kane being the lighting rod for attention that he is.

Was it a lucky trade? I don't think so at all.

The right deal presented itself to Chevy and he acted accordingly. Had the right deal not been available, Chevy would have remained patient until it one did, IMO. He wasn't going to let Kane go for peanuts.

Was he lucky he didn't have to wait till the offseason to get a deal done? Sure, but whose to say a deal down the road, that could have presented itself, may have been a better haul than the what the Sabre
deal brought us?

Is the organization, Chevy included, lucky that the deal was done prior to Kane's latest antics, legal and organizationally embarrassing antics?
Absolutely, thankfully the team was able to rid itself of his poor character, hats off to Chevy for getting it done at full value.

Not only that but its been mentioned by others that they weren't adverse in any way to dumping Bogo as well. Just a win-win-win trade all the way.

But was he lucky -- indeed. There was only one Buffalo that had the motive and desire to trade for Kane. Even if he had to wait, there would not have been anything close to as favorable a deal to be had in the offseason.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's not odd. It's actually incredibly common.

The trade is looking better and better, IMO. Some luck in terms of timing for a trade partner combined with a surprising amount of chutzpah on Chevy's part to put one of the biggest trades together of the last few years resulted in some very good looking pieces moving forward. Kane's inability to stay out of trouble is the icing on the cake for this trade. I loved watching him on the ice, but I'm glad he's someone else's problem now.

I forgot the

When you come right down to it there is probably some good luck in most successes. I think you still have to give credit to success. We are not talking about a blind monkey finding a banana here.

I did not want to lose Kane's on ice contribution but, in general I believe that sports teams should try to honour trade requests. Within reason of course. Therefore I wanted to see Kane traded as soon as possible after it became clear he was not going to change his mind. The obvious time was after the '13 season when he had been on pace for a 2nd consecutive 30 goal season. Unfortunately the shrunken cap might have prevented that.

Bottom line for me is that it should have been done sooner but under the circumstances Chevy did very well. TBH I don't know if he ever could have done any better althkugh separate trades of Kane and Bogo might have netted more. Just speculating there though.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

That sounds exactly backwards. Those things coming available to him were beyond his control. Therefore - lucky.

My point was it his influence on that outcome was zero, therefor if there was luck in the outcome, it was no more Chevy's luck as it was Thompson's and Chipman's and Maurice's luck, and the fans and city of Winnipeg, as well as Manitoba, and throughout our country.

Lotsa lucky people that day!

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Is it still possible Kane has his charges dropped, ends up starting the season with Buffalo, and putting a solid season up, making his value rise a bit?

 

[CaptainChef]

Is it still possible Kane has his charges dropped, ends up starting the season with Buffalo, and putting a solid season up, making his value rise a bit?

Anything is possible, but with Kane his character just suggests it will just keep sliding downhill. Seems impossible for him to stay on track for more than a couple months & when he screws up, he screws up bad.

 

[Whileee]

Not only that but its been mentioned by others that they weren't adverse in any way to dumping Bogo as well. Just a win-win-win trade all the way.

But was he lucky -- indeed. There was only one Buffalo that had the motive and desire to trade for Kane. Even if he had to wait, there would not have been anything close to as favorable a deal to be had in the offseason.

It seems quite possible that Buffalo had wanted to deal for Kane for some time, but wanted to make the trade at the end of the season to maintain their lead in the McDavid tankfest. When the track suit incident occurred with Kane wanting to shut it down for the season with his injury the Jets perhaps decided to move earlier than planned.

 

[CorgisPer60]

It's not odd. It's actually incredibly common.

The trade is looking better and better, IMO. Some luck in terms of timing for a trade partner combined with a surprising amount of chutzpah on Chevy's part to put one of the biggest trades together of the last few years resulted in some very good looking pieces moving forward. Kane's inability to stay out of trouble is the icing on the cake for this trade. I loved watching him on the ice, but I'm glad he's someone else's problem now.

All of my this. I was amazed that Chevy got as much value as he did for Kane and Bogo, and recent events have swung the trade even more in his favour. It was a perfect storm to be sure, and if A: Tim Murray wasn't as aggressive as he is; B: Buffalo wasn't actively tanking for McEichel; and C: Kane was healthy, then I doubt we would have gotten as good as value as we otherwise would have. I do not envy Buffalo in dealing with Kane's shenanigans, and I am so glad we no longer have to put up with them.

That said, I don't take pleasure in Kane's recent activities. I really do want to see him turn it around and quit acting like he's a rock star that's above everyone else, because that's what gets him into trouble. It was fine 3-4 years ago when it was just moneyphone, YMCMB haircuts, flamboyant suits, and loads of swagger on and off the ice, but now it's becoming dangerous. This is his second consecutive summer in which he's had a run in with the law. The sexual assault claim last year proved absence of guilt, but that doesn't make him innocent. This year, it's more defined as to what he did. He needs to get himself back on track, quit hurting random people, and quit embarrassing his team, teammates, and fanbase. He can do this, but it's all on him to do it; no one else can force that change. If he doesn't smarten up, then he'll have a hard time finding a good job in the NHL. There will always be room for a middle-6 winger of his capabilities, so long as the distractions don't prove too liable. The ball's in his court now, as it always was.

 

[ps241]

So Kane now facing civil suit over his allegedl assault of the women in December in Buffalo:

http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/08012016/december-accuser-sues-evander-kane

Providing no further details of what happened in that room, Kuechle’s complaint alleges that Kane committed a “violent, offensive” ”battery” upon her, causing her to, “suffer bodily injury including lacerations, extensive bleeding requiring multiple surgeries and blood transfusions, and serious emotional trauma.” She goes on to bring causes of action against Kane for intentional infliction of extreme emotional distress, “unreasonably endangering” Kuechle, and negligence.

So this allegation on top of the current pending charges and also accusations from his former playboy model girlfriend who recently posted he was a brutal abuser.

At the end of the day he has yet to be convicted of a crime in a court of law and with a good lawyer he can probably keep at bay on most of these allegations but........? 35 points last season in Buffalo in 65 games and getting paid $6 million. So he has this season and next under contract and then it's time for a new deal. What is the over under on him making it to the next deal vs being in jail at this rate? 5 separate women 3 different events claiming abuse.

Court of law still says he's innocent currently but public opinion seems to be less forgiving since individuals are not burdened with the same restrictions and are free to form their own opinion. The track suit issue did not seem to get any message across to Kane? The baggage on this guy is becoming overwhelming.

Two years left before EK9 is unemployed and looking for a new contract and as always with the career it's still his move?

 

[Boxertim]

im pretty sure he doesnt care if he ever works again. he will have lots of money to spend and no pesky job to keep him from spending it at any rate he wants

 

[puck stoppa]

im pretty sure he doesnt care if he ever works again. he will have lots of money to spend and no pesky job to keep him from spending it at any rate he wants

He'll regret tossing away a long career when no one gives a **** about him once he's outve hockey [mod]

 

[Koonta]

So it appears Evander has picked up some real bad traits from another guy that wore #9 for the Jets.

Perhaps we need to keep an eye on Copp.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

im pretty sure he doesnt care if he ever works again. he will have lots of money to spend and no pesky job to keep him from spending it at any rate he wants

You might be surprised how fast a guy living that kind of lifestyle can blow through his millions.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

im pretty sure he doesnt care if he ever works again. he will have lots of money to spend and no pesky job to keep him from spending it at any rate he wants

I am pretty sure nothing could be further from the truth.

Doubt Evander could sustain his high level of being a dbag without maintaining his current rate of pay.

Evander is a loss cause. His moral compass is so screwed up, he believes his talent will somehow compensate for his bottom of the barrel character. I think he gets his guidance from the biggest dbag and woman hitter out there in Floyd Mayweather, but Kane fails to realize that Floyd is the best at what he does, and he is in a single person sport with no teammates relying on him to maintain his character.

He will probably be out of the NHL before his current contract expires. He will most likely have to head overseas to resurrect his career, but by that time he will be close to 30, his talent will have gone from slightly above average to below, and he will come to the harsh reality that he washed his career and potential earnings down the drain.

No team will be willing to invest again into an embarrassment like Kane. Its no surprise that Evander's true colors came flying out after he had inked his first big deal. He is not thinking about the contract after his current one, he has money in the bank, so he felt free to act like his true self. Most likely, his poor character will have cost him another multi year deal, big time $$, and there will come a time when the harsh reality will nail Kane right between the eyes.

Then there will be some special interview, Kane crying about his poor behavior, how he has learnt his lesson and is ready to be a stand up citizen. It will kinda be sad, because he will be washed up, and no one will care. But then you will realize he deserved every ounce of what he is getting.

 

[winnipegger]

To those who liked Kane's "on-ice" play: really? I found it to be pretty poor :/

 

[Sabadecade]

To those who liked Kane's "on-ice" play: really? I found it to be pretty poor :/

Dem stats tho...

 

[kylbaz]

To those who liked Kane's "on-ice" play: really? I found it to be pretty poor :/

I think Kane is a valuable player to have in your lineup and any GM would want him sitting in their top 6 or at least top 9. What Kane can do is hit people hard, and he can streak down the ice and score a goal every few games. What he can't do is make something out of nothing (like scheifele can). He isn't very creative out there. But if you had a team of creative guys they wouldn't get anything done! I think he plays his role well and that's all you can ask. Hoping he will develop into a player in the mold of Kessel but to be honest it kind of looks like this is the player he is and we should accept that.

Doesn't sound like you thought he was very poor a couple years ago.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

To those who liked Kane's "on-ice" play: really? I found it to be pretty poor :/

20-30 goal scorer who hits, fights, forecheck's hard, PK's, and always gives 100% on ice? Yeah, a lot to not like about that.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on his off-ice behaviour - that was obviously a mistake, but I still think he's a useful piece even given his hockey flaws, perhaps to help drive the scoring of a 3rd line.

 

[Aavco Cup]

EK9 is spending a lot of his $$$ on lawyers these days. That lawsuit will likely be settled and cost him more $$$$. He may soon not have enough left to make a money phone ever again.

He needs to smarten up.

 

[sully1410]

I wouldnt actually be surprised if it was true tbh. He seems like the type if you catch my meaning.

 

[ps241]

im pretty sure he doesnt care if he ever works again. he will have lots of money to spend and no pesky job to keep him from spending it at any rate he wants

The amount of pro atheletes that go bankrupt is staggering and Kane loves to live large. Easy to burn through $30 million pretax.