Confirmed with Link: Jets/Buffalo Blockbuster! part II (Kane and Bogo)

[KingBogo]

Kane and Stafford are very different. Kane was great on the forecheck and PK. His speed and physicality tilted the ice. He was very disappointing in his scoring. Stafford is pretty good in the O zone and converts his scoring chances well. Kane's youth is in his favour especially if he ever figures out how to score and how to complement linemates. Point is it isn't that lopsided. I like Staff and give him the edge at least in the short term.

Similar story with Myers/Bogo. Given Bogo's continuing injury problem Myers is clearly ahead but Bogo is very close if he can just stay healthy.

If Armia becomes a solid 3rd liner we have won. If 1 of Lemieux or Roslovic makes it we have a big win. I'm not in any rush to call it though.

I think the other piece that often gets lost is that Kane was done for the season last year and we were in a very tough playoff fight. Getting a player that could contribute nicely in the middle 6 and a slight upgrade on the backend was big for our playoff push.

 

[gbill2004*]

I think the other piece that often gets lost is that Kane was done for the season last year and we were in a very tough playoff fight. Getting a player that could contribute nicely in the middle 6 and a slight upgrade on the backend was big for our playoff push.

In addition, there was zero chance Kane was returning to the Jets once his contract was up, so the long term debate of Kane vs Stafford is irrelevant.

 

[KCjetsfan]

In addition, there was zero chance Kane was returning to the Jets once his contract was up, so the long term debate of Kane vs Stafford is irrelevant.

Same thing on the other end. Stafford wasn't going back to buffalo so all they gave up was two months of Stafford. People forget that when they talk of a fleecing. At least they get a few years of Kane.

I still maintain both teams should be happy with the trade in general.

 

[puck stoppa]

Same thing on the other end. Stafford wasn't going back to buffalo so all they gave up was two months of Stafford. People forget that when they talk of a fleecing. At least they get a few years of Kane.

I still maintain both teams should be happy with the trade in general.

I think your last sentence is correct......right now. When we revisit in two to three years we will then really know how this trade turned out, I think that's where the word fleeced will be rolled out regularly.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Same thing on the other end. Stafford wasn't going back to buffalo so all they gave up was two months of Stafford. People forget that when they talk of a fleecing. At least they get a few years of Kane.

I still maintain both teams should be happy with the trade in general.

I agree with this. The jets got a few months of Stafford's services as part of the trade. Nothing more. Yes, we were able to re-sign him with a moderate overpay but that deal was outside of the actual trade.

I think that it is possible that this deal could swing heavily in the Jets favor as the prospects develop. Armia is looking like a useful 4th liner which in itself is ok but not great. 4th liners are not exactly hard to come by. Look at some of the plugs that we regularly use as 4th liners. But Armia has good hands and decent head's up vision. He lacks finish right now. But if he can develop a bit more finish, he could turn out to be a decent middle sixer. If that happens the deal swings further in our favor, not to mention what happens with Lemieux / Roslovic.

 

[scelaton]

I think your last sentence is correct......right now. When we revisit in two to three years we will then really know how this trade turned out, I think that's where the word fleeced will be rolled out regularly.

I've thought the trade was a clear win from the beginning, in that we got the best player (Myers), the best contract (Myers) and the best futures. But, instead of looking at it as a Wpg vs Buffalo contest, I prefer to look at it as Jets with Kane and Bogo vs Jets with Stafford, Myers, Armia and futures.
No contest, in terms of team productivity, team harmony and my inner peace and harmony.

 

[FinJetster]

I've thought the trade was a clear win from the beginning, in that we got the best player (Myers), the best contract (Myers) and the best futures. But, instead of looking at it as a Wpg vs Buffalo contest, I prefer to look at it as Jets with Kane and Bogo vs Jets with Stafford, Myers, Armia and futures.
No contest, in terms of team productivity, team harmony and my inner peace and harmony.

This one right here.
It doesn't matter, actually, how well Kane and Bogo do in Buffalo. I also think we "won" anyway, as the move definately made our team better. Bogo is the only peace I sometimes miss, but even he has his downside in being injury prone and I actually like Myers more. Plus as a Finn, I just couldn't believe they threw in Armia also. And now people here are starting to see why, also .

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

This one right here.
It doesn't matter, actually, how well Kane and Bogo do in Buffalo. I also think we "won" anyway, as the move definately made our team better. Bogo is the only peace I sometimes miss, but even he has his downside in being injury prone and I actually like Myers more. Plus as a Finn, I just couldn't believe they threw in Armia also. And now people here are starting to see why, also .

See why? You mean because he has few nice flashes but Scoreburns it wide and get edged to the corners a lot while attacking or Because he has flashes and that he looks very promising and it's something the Jets might be able to develop for a future balanced attack?

 

[JetsFan815]

I had a dream last night where Kane was a Game of Thrones villain, he was made a minor Lord of some castle in the north by Ramsay, he tortured and murdered Sansa slowly by cutting off each part of her body once a day and sending it to Braavos to Arya as a taunt.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

The jets got a few months of Stafford's services as part of the trade. Nothing more. Yes, we were able to re-sign him with a moderate overpay but that deal was outside of the actual trade.
.

Stafford does not resign here had he not been traded here the season prior, and that contract is not an overpayment.

He could have signed that 2 year deal with several other teams but he chose Winnipeg. That only happens because of that trade, which is part of the value we received from that deal.

 

[JetsFan815]

Stafford does not resign here had he not been traded here the season prior, and that contract is not an overpayment.

He could have signed that 2 year deal with several other teams but he chose Winnipeg. That only happens because of that trade, which is part of the value we received from that deal.

We signed him after he had tested the market to see what else was out there. We only signed him because we overpaid relative to what the NHL was paying other forwards of his ilk who were going for anywhere between 800k-3million. You can bet that if we really wanted to sign him we would have been able to even if he was a Sabre at the end of the season, the market for forwards collapsed but we paid Stafford at the rate he would have made during last year's free agency

 

[Boxertim]

Even if we gave Stafford an overpayment relative to the league offer, he probably was more inclined to sign here due to the trade.

I think we have offered overpayments to other FAs and they did not all sign.

 

[10Ducky10]

Staf has been one of the most consistent players on the team this year and at 4.35 is worth it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the other piece that often gets lost is that Kane was done for the season last year and we were in a very tough playoff fight. Getting a player that could contribute nicely in the middle 6 and a slight upgrade on the backend was big for our playoff push.

Granted. Definitely a factor for both teams. Buffalo didn't want to risk their tank.

I think your last sentence is correct......right now. When we revisit in two to three years we will then really know how this trade turned out, I think that's where the word fleeced will be rolled out regularly.

Right now it looks good for us based only on Myers, Staff. In 2 years that may have changed. Or not. If 1 or 2 of the other pieces have turned out well though we are no worse than break even. If we are still winning based only on those 2 and 2 of 3 others are contributing that fleeced word will apply. A lot of ifs though so I will withhold judgement a little longer. 2 or 3 years is probably about right but maybe less if Armia starts scoring a little.

It is tempting, looking at Armia, Lemieux and Roslovic to declare the trade a massive win right now but things so often go sideways.

 

[KingBogo]

Granted. Definitely a factor for both teams. Buffalo didn't want to risk their tank.


Right now it looks good for us based only on Myers, Staff. In 2 years that may have changed. Or not. If 1 or 2 of the other pieces have turned out well though we are no worse than break even. If we are still winning based only on those 2 and 2 of 3 others are contributing that fleeced word will apply. A lot of ifs though so I will withhold judgement a little longer. 2 or 3 years is probably about right but maybe less if Armia starts scoring a little.

It is tempting, looking at Armia, Lemieux and Roslovic to declare the trade a massive win right now but things so often go sideways.

Agreed. I wouldn't call it a massive win yet, but there is that potential with Armia, Lemieux and Rosolvic. But year 1 of the trade definitely favours the Jets without even counting the futures.

To date Buffalo has got 84 games from Kane and Bogo for 10 goals, 21 assists, 31 points for a .37 PPG. Actual salary this season for both players $11.25 M.

To date Winnipeg has got 153 games from Stafford, Myers and Armia for 32 goals, 45 assists, 77 points for a .50 PPG. Actual salary for all 3 players $10.183 M.

A quick glance at the possession numbers for all players would suggest a strong advantage for the Jets as well. Bottom line it is a win now with the potential of a massive win in the future.

 

[ps241]

Agreed. I wouldn't call it a massive win yet, but there is that potential with Armia, Lemieux and Rosolvic. But year 1 of the trade definitely favours the Jets without even counting the futures.

To date Buffalo has got 84 games from Kane and Bogo for 10 goals, 21 assists, 31 points for a .37 PPG. Actual salary this season for both players $11.25 M.

To date Winnipeg has got 153 games from Stafford, Myers and Armia for 32 goals, 45 assists, 77 points for a .50 PPG. Actual salary for all 3 players $10.183 M.

A quick glance at the possession numbers for all players would suggest a strong advantage for the Jets as well. Bottom line it is a win now with the potential of a massive win in the future.

I guess the issue is less about us and currently a bit more about Buffalo. The Sabres gave up a big chunk of future with 2 x 1st's (Armia and Roslo) and a really early 2nd round asset for Kane. Now in fairness to Buffalo they might not have been sold on Joel and Lemieux's dad was talking about not signing with them so perhaps they felt that bundle with a late 1st was a fair price for EK9?

The problem is more in the early results. Kane is underachieving and on pace for a 40 point season and although the team is trending in the right direction I am guessing he has been a disappointment so far for Buffalo. The slow start may not be a huge issue since he is 24 but in comes the part that has always had me scratching my head, after this season Kane has two years left before he is a UFA?? Sorry but that gives you one more season and then a lame duck year. Time will tell and maybe next season EK rediscovers his 20 year old self but for now he is doing a crappy job post break up of making me jealous. Now, there will be nothing stopping the Sabres from overpaying Kane for more years but who wants to pay a malcontent 40 to 50 point a year diva huge money?

Never really got bringing a guy with 3 cost controlled seasons onto a team in Buffalo's position?

 

[GJF]

I guess the issue is less about us and currently a bit more about Buffalo. The Sabres gave up a big chunk of future with 2 x 1st's (Armia and Roslo) and a really early 2nd round asset for Kane. Now in fairness to Buffalo they might not have been sold on Joel and Lemieux's dad was talking about not signing with them so perhaps they felt that bundle with a late 1st was a fair price for EK9?

The problem is more in the early results. Kane is underachieving and on pace for a 40 point season and although the team is trending in the right direction I am guessing he has been a disappointment so far for Buffalo. The slow start may not be a huge issue since he is 24 but in comes the part that has always had me scratching my head, after this season Kane has two years left before he is a UFA?? Sorry but that gives you one more season and then a lame duck year. Time will tell and maybe next season EK rediscovers his 20 year old self but for now he is doing a crappy job post break up of making me jealous. Now, there will be nothing stopping the Sabres from overpaying Kane for more years but who wants to pay a malcontent 40 to 50 point a year diva huge money?

Never really got bringing a guy with 3 cost controlled seasons onto a team in Buffalo's position?

Well it does work... in theory. I'm sure the Sabres organization was hoping for EK to turn things around rather quickly. They had some good reasons why this would work: A new surrounding for EK with talented young guns and the projection to play alongside one out of Eichel or McDavid. The projection still exists but they'll probably start worrying about EK making the next step and getting back to a constant at least 30 goal scorer form he showed he COULD live up to. It didn't happen yet and there are other also very good reasons why it hasn't happend and won't happen magically next season. We all know what the problems in EK's game are and he doesn't seem to have adjusted much or at all.

So let's talk next season at this point. You're looking to have this trade look really bad if you decide to part with EK after the ASG or at the deadline. He'll only have one more season on his contract which will lower is value compared to last year A LOT and the league will have noticed that the change of scenary hasn't had helped him much. Why bother trading for him?

The next possibility would be to try and sign EK anyway because it would feel like less of a loss in retro-perspective, looking back at the trade with WPG. I think it is the most likeliest scenario actually. They'll have him playing on the 2nd line for another 3-5 years at about 5M on which he'll score 20 goals and 20 assists every season. Not bad at all but certainly not what they have hoped for.

 

[Gm0ney]

This was a deal that made pretty good sense for both teams in terms of what they gave up.

It hasn't turned out to be a win-win, but it was probably worth the risk for Buffalo.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I guess the issue is less about us and currently a bit more about Buffalo. The Sabres gave up a big chunk of future with 2 x 1st's (Armia and Roslo) and a really early 2nd round asset for Kane. Now in fairness to Buffalo they might not have been sold on Joel and Lemieux's dad was talking about not signing with them so perhaps they felt that bundle with a late 1st was a fair price for EK9?

The problem is more in the early results. Kane is underachieving and on pace for a 40 point season and although the team is trending in the right direction I am guessing he has been a disappointment so far for Buffalo. The slow start may not be a huge issue since he is 24 but in comes the part that has always had me scratching my head, after this season Kane has two years left before he is a UFA?? Sorry but that gives you one more season and then a lame duck year. Time will tell and maybe next season EK rediscovers his 20 year old self but for now he is doing a crappy job post break up of making me jealous. Now, there will be nothing stopping the Sabres from overpaying Kane for more years but who wants to pay a malcontent 40 to 50 point a year diva huge money?

Never really got bringing a guy with 3 cost controlled seasons onto a team in Buffalo's position?

Looking at the big picture we win by having cleared up the conflict within the team. If Kane starts to light it up and Bogo turns into 3rd OA pick, stud D that he was supposed to be it becomes a win/win. If just one of the 3 futures turns out well I will be satisfied with the trade regardless.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

We signed him after he had tested the market to see what else was out there. We only signed him because we overpaid relative to what the NHL was paying other forwards of his ilk who were going for anywhere between 800k-3million. You can bet that if we really wanted to sign him we would have been able to even if he was a Sabre at the end of the season, the market for forwards collapsed but we paid Stafford at the rate he would have made during last year's free agency

Nope, he only signed here because he felt comfortable with the organization, which only happened because he was traded here the year prior.

"It was an extremely easy choice," Stafford said Tuesday. " I'm extremely happy to be coming back. The bottom line is I'm coming back to an organization where I'm extremely comfortable. I love the city. The fans were unbelievable to me."

Term was an underpayment on the contract he signed, which we got because of the deal.

 

[KCjetsfan]

Nope, he only signed here because he felt comfortable with the organization, which only happened because he was traded here the year prior.




Term was an underpayment on the contract he signed, which we got because of the deal.

Your first point is pretty speculative particularly when presented as fact. I think it is safe to say that it was easier to sign him after he spent a few months here.

We'll see after the 2 years are up as to whether it is an underpayment. Right now maybe not but I've seen drew disappear for weeks at a time before and wouldn't be surprised if it happens here (again). He is/ has been the definition of streaky.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Your first point is pretty speculative particularly when presented as fact. I think it is safe to say that it was easier to sign him after he spent a few months here.

We'll see after the 2 years are up as to whether it is an underpayment. Right now maybe not but I've seen drew disappear for weeks at a time before and wouldn't be surprised if it happens here (again). He is/ has been the definition of streaky.

That was presented as fact, to match the quote that I was replying to, which stated "the only reason" we were able to resign Stafford was because we "overpaid" for him, as factual.

 

[JetsFan815]

Nope, he only signed here because he felt comfortable with the organization, which only happened because he was traded here the year prior.




Term was an underpayment on the contract he signed, which we got because of the deal.

Stafford tested Free Agency to see what else was out there before signing with the Jets. I'm not saying he didn't feel comfortable with the Jets but if he was going to sign with the Jets just cuz he felt good about them why would he go to free agency. Clearly he was looking for the highest pay and considering what the other forwards got, it's hard to imagine anyone offering Staff more than we did. If Staff had left Buffalo as a FA we'd have signed him if we offered the same amount.

 

[kylbaz]

Stafford tested Free Agency to see what else was out there before signing with the Jets. I'm not saying he didn't feel comfortable with the Jets but if he was going to sign with the Jets just cuz he felt good about them why would he go to free agency. Clearly he was looking for the highest pay and considering what the other forwards got, it's hard to imagine anyone offering Staff more than we did. If Staff had left Buffalo as a FA we'd have signed him if we offered the same amount.

We have no idea if someone would have offered more, and it's not a stretch to think someone would have. He's a pretty good player that wanted out of Buffalo it was pretty obvious. He was on pace for 28 goals after coming to Winnipeg, that wasn't just luck. I bet there were teams that were close in salary, maybe even more, but Stafford saw a lot of potential here and liked it here. You can see i nhis interviews last year he loved it here.

 

[folix]

We have no idea if someone would have offered more, and it's not a stretch to think someone would have. He's a pretty good player that wanted out of Buffalo it was pretty obvious. He was on pace for 28 goals after coming to Winnipeg, that wasn't just luck. I bet there were teams that were close in salary, maybe even more, but Stafford saw a lot of potential here and liked it here. You can see i nhis interviews last year he loved it here.

Yeah he said it numerous times that he if the Jets would have him he would love to resign with the club. Of course he agent sniffed around other teams, if your agent didnt do that to gauge market value, well he wouldnt nor shouldnt be your agent for long.