Post-Game Talk: Jets are a mess, lose 6-3

[Slimy Sculpin]

That Wheeler tweet is a bit disingenuous as MacKinnon was going to a 1 on 1 with the Jets defenceman so Wheeler wasn't responsible for busting over there. The unfortunate thing was that it was, A) Nathan MacKinnon, and B) the Jets defenceman was Nathan Beaulieu. A tale of 2 Nates.

Agree. I can be critical of Wheeler at times but it looked like he had his guy covered (near the boards)

 

[DRW204]

McIntyre championing Stanley and his +5 and implicating Morrissey and his -8, not only shows how utterly useless +/- is, it also shows how incredibly stupid he is. Not to mention his complete cherry picking of when he thinks it might be useful.

Some of the people who cover this team are just an embarrassment.

The guy called plus minus a modern stat. Lol what.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The Luongo/Schneider situation in Vancouver was weird though. That seemed like a one off because the move Schneider and keep Lu. Then Eddie Lack is coming up as well as Markstrom(is that where he was drafted) and they eventually get Lu out.

Bishop was moved out when Vasi took over in Tampa.

A lot of these situations you have someone knocking on the door and we don’t have anyone close right now.

Fluery was a shell of himself even at the time as a cap casualty. But the guy has always been inconsistent.

Trading Helle would be a huge risk. But a team like Edm might pay a huge price.

If we were to move him, we might spend years finding another starter. That's the risk. You don't go anywhere without adequate goaltending. Or we might pick one up cheap this off-season, or next. You just don't know with goalies.

Given his history, I would bet on Helle rebounding - and it isn't like he is all that bad this year, just not quite up to his usual standards. He is not on my shopping list but the thought of trading him comes up because he has not been quite so good this year and he is under contract for only 2 more years after this one. But it would take one very large offer to get him, and even then I would take the time to consider it carefully.

If we had a prospect looking very strong in the system, it might be different. But right now, we have no one.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Up 3-0, lose 6-3

This is the game you watch as a GM that forces you to do something drastic.

Do you mean like firing the coach?

 

[LowLefty]

you start with systems.... do you think boudreau just kept greens systems in place and told them to work harder... no, he changed the way they played...
keeping the same systems that haven't worked and expecting different results it just insanity...
I don't understand your pov at all... you say our system's are flawed but you think we need to fix the effort first, so at what point do you fix the system?
players go all out with effort only to get let down by coaching do you think they are going to continue to go all out?
why does it even have to be 1 or the other? why can't we get new systems while getting players to play harder? I feel like there might be more buy in with this team if they are trying something new rather then doing the same and expecting different results..

I know you don't understand -
Don't hold me responsible for that - we've been back and forth a several times and

You fix the systems when you have a coach in place that is capable of fixing this mess -
Right now, Lowry is not that guy - it's not hard to see that.
Again, he is now a place holder - the best they can expect from him at this point is to try and inject a little work ethic into their game.

Yes, normally you would start with systems - but this is an intern coach who is going to get them through the season but not much else.
Why do you not see any changes in systems? Because they are not asking him to make any.
The only change you might have seen is maybe asking the guys to add a little urgency in how they play - you see a bit of that on the PK - but that's about it.

This is my opinion - nothing more. If you feel Lowry should be working new systems into this teams game, I'm fine with that -

 

[gojetsgo]

I know you don't understand -
Don't hold me responsible for that - we've been back and forth a several times and

You fix the systems when you have a coach in place that is capable of fixing this mess -
Right now, Lowry is not that guy - it's not hard to see that.
Again, he is now a place holder - the best they can expect from him at this point is to try and inject a little work ethic into their game.

Yes, normally you would start with systems - but this is an intern coach who is going to get them through the season but not much else.
Why do you not see any changes in systems? Because they are not asking him to make any.
The only change you might have seen is maybe asking the guys to add a little urgency in how they play - you see a bit of that on the PK - but that's about it.

This is my opinion - nothing more. If you feel Lowry should be working new systems into this teams game, I'm fine with that -

what? you think they gave him the first opportunity to take the job and said for him to not make any changes to the team that's struggling? no, he had free reign to make the changes he felt necessary to win and he wasted his chance... like how can you honestly sit there and say they asked him not to change what they are doing after how much they invested into this season...

and again, you can work on work ethic while implementing new systems, it doesn't have to be either/or

 

[SUX2BU]

Scheifele and Wheeler.

scheifele has one upcoming March 1st

 

[SUX2BU]

Rumour has it...

Wheeler tried shooting the puck at a teammate's head but the shot was so weak the other player didn't notice.

the teammate must have been standing by the net

 

[LowLefty]

what? you think they gave him the first opportunity to take the job and said for him to not make any changes to the team that's struggling? no, he had free reign to make the changes he felt necessary to win and he wasted his chance... like how can you honestly sit there and say they asked him not to change what they are doing after how much they invested into this season...

No -
I am saying RIGHT NOW they do not intend to have him make system changes - it doesn't matter what they might have intended.
I'm sure the intention was to give him a shot - and if he made any headway with the team through changes, he might even end up as the perm head coach once the season ended.

But that didn't happen - he's not making any headway - so the plan has changed - he's a place holder.
I don't see any evidence of significant change on this team - do you?
So that leaves me believing he is not currently tasked with making significant game plan changes with this team.

I'll say it again:
Right now, he is a place holder - he's not reworking this teams systems - there is no evidence of that other than a slightly more aggressive PK.

At best, he is trying to get these guys to show a little emotion and add another gear to their game (speed, tenacity) - that is what he has been preaching for the last few weeks if you are listening to his post game pressers.

I'm repeating myself - and I honestly don't know how to make this any clearer.

 

[gojetsgo]

No -
I am saying RIGHT NOW they do not intend to have him make system changes - it doesn't matter what they might have intended.
I'm sure the intention was to give him a shot - and if he made any headway with the team through changes, he might even end up as the perm head coach once the season ended.

But that didn't happen - he's not making any headway - so the plan has changed - he's a place holder.
I don't see any evidence of significant change on this team - do you?
So that leaves me believing he is not currently tasked with making significant game plan changes with this team.

I'll say it again:
Right now, he is a place holder - he's not reworking this teams systems - there is no evidence of that other than a slightly more aggressive PK.

At best, he is trying to get these guys to show a little emotion and add another gear to their game (speed, tenacity) - that is what he has been preaching for the last few weeks if you are listening to his post game pressers.

I'm repeating myself - and I honestly don't know how to make this any clearer.

you could have started off by saying it's to late for lowry to make changes to the systems instead of saying he was told not to make changes.

what do we expect to learn from this team when we play the same way, the same lines, zero accountability, nothing has changed and you can't expect to be able to properly evaluate this team. if the system doesn't work you can't just tell people to work harder and expect different results... you must try something new.

 

[WolfHouse]

Curious to see what happened in other teams when coaches weee fired - do the assistants usually stay?

 

[gojetsgo]

Curious to see what happened in other teams when coaches weee fired - do the assistants usually stay?

every situation is different

 

[Larabee]

I know you don't understand -
Don't hold me responsible for that - we've been back and forth a several times and

You fix the systems when you have a coach in place that is capable of fixing this mess -
Right now, Lowry is not that guy - it's not hard to see that.
Again, he is now a place holder - the best they can expect from him at this point is to try and inject a little work ethic into their game.

Yes, normally you would start with systems - but this is an intern coach who is going to get them through the season but not much else.
Why do you not see any changes in systems? Because they are not asking him to make any.
The only change you might have seen is maybe asking the guys to add a little urgency in how they play - you see a bit of that on the PK - but that's about it.

This is my opinion - nothing more. If you feel Lowry should be working new systems into this teams game, I'm fine with that -

The PP for a while was a little more active, especially when Wheeler was out. Now that Wheeler is back, the PP has become static again.

 

[WolfHouse]

every situation is different

Do you have a source - I’d like to dig deeper into this analysis

 

[Larabee]

Curious to see what happened in other teams when coaches weee fired - do the assistants usually stay?

It’s hard to bring in a whole new coaching staff during the year. If the hc and all assistants are fired it would be during the off season. IIRC

 

[raideralex99]

If Wheeler ever came here to read some of these posts he would demand a trade.
Does anyone know his email?

 

[gojetsgo]

Do you have a source - I’d like to dig deeper into this analysis

do people really keep track of that? all I know is sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. if I had to guess it's probably happens if the new hc has someone they want to bring in

 

[tbcwpg]

Trading Helle would be a huge risk. But a team like Edm might pay a huge price.

If we were to move him, we might spend years finding another starter. That's the risk. You don't go anywhere without adequate goaltending. Or we might pick one up cheap this off-season, or next. You just don't know with goalies.

Given his history, I would bet on Helle rebounding - and it isn't like he is all that bad this year, just not quite up to his usual standards. He is not on my shopping list but the thought of trading him comes up because he has not been quite so good this year and he is under contract for only 2 more years after this one. But it would take one very large offer to get him, and even then I would take the time to consider it carefully.

If we had a prospect looking very strong in the system, it might be different. But right now, we have no one.

What on Earth would Edmonton have that they would trade to make moving Hellebuyck worthwhile?

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

If Wheeler ever came here to read some of these posts he would demand a trade.
Does anyone know his email?

Actually, I think he would create an account and berate us all for a while, then refuse to speak to us.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Jets have real gems with Dubois (with all due respect to Connor, Dubois is now our best player), Connor, Perfetti, Morrissey (playing the best hockey I've ever seen him play), Pionk (a step back from previous couple of seasons but still has the tools), Lowry (in context as a limited minutes guy) and that's about it. I am not including any of the young defensemen including Stanley or Heinola because they still require the guidance of the vets and somebody other than Charlie Huddy to help them.

Everybody else is trade bait as far as I'm concerned (and those who can't be traded will hopefully be replaced by some better depth signings). This includes Ehlers who was playing poorly before his injury. I've been waiting for him to elevate his game to the 30 goal, 70 point level for some time. While often showing all-star capabilities, he is just too inconsistent.

At the very least, send a message by stripping the C and A from Wheeler and Scheifele and give the C to Dubois and the A to either Lowry or Connor.

As far as Hellebuyck is concerned, I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water, but we need to start looking at some goaltending options at the draft table. He has looked awful this season. Hopefully it's just a blip, because he has proven that it took his Vezina Trophy form to bail out a horribly coached Jets team in the past, which hid so many sins.

Hellybuyck is an above average goalie...even this year. His save percentage is above the league average.

Jets, so far, have not proven to be able to draft a capable backup goalie for the NHL, let alone a starter. Comrie, right now, has not proven he is capable backup and was given the position by default.

Chevy has drafted something like 7 goalies so far. Berdin might have an outside shot as a backup. Holm is a disaster on a defensively sound Moose team. Maybe Moe turns into something, maybe not.

Right now, there is zero serious competition for Helly.

 

[surixon]

Curious to see what happened in other teams when coaches weee fired - do the assistants usually stay?

In most cases the head coach and one assistant that is axed or atleast that is what I've seen lately. Usually they wait to the offseason to make full scale assistant coach changes.

 

[Orrrules]

Hellybuyck is an above average goalie...even this year. His save percentage is above the league average.

Jets, so far, have not proven to be able to draft a capable backup goalie for the NHL, let alone a starter. Comrie, right now, has not proven he is capable backup and was given the position by default.

Chevy has drafted something like 7 goalies so far. Berdin might have an outside shot as a backup. Holm is a disaster on a defensively sound Moose team. Maybe Moe turns into something, maybe not.

Right now, there is zero serious competition for Helly.

Sell high buy low.

Both Helle and Schef are prime pieces, return now would be high.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Sell high buy low.

Both Helle and Schef are prime pieces, return now would be high.

No. There are no options.

 

[Orrrules]

No. There are no options.

There's always options.

 

[Ducky10]

Curious to see what happened in other teams when coaches weee fired - do the assistants usually stay?

It’s far more common to relieve the entire coaching staff, unless promoting the assistant. A new coach is typically going to want to hire his own staff, that’s what I’ve seen in 45 years of watching hockey that I can remember.

Maurice actually chose to keep Huddy, I don’t actually think it was foisted on him.

Edmonton most recently also fired Playfair when they let Tippett go.