Post-Game Talk: Jets 3- Ducks 2

[surixon]

If this is true then the Jets are really missing Perfetti!

The duo has outscored the opposition 19 to 9 when on the ice together.

Mark is 30 gf 41 GA without Cole.

Not saying Cole makes Mark but Perfetti and him read the play similarily in the offensive zone.

 

[kanadalainen]

The duo has outscored the opposition 19 to 9 when on the ice together.

Mark is 30 gf 41 GA without Cole.

Not saying Cole makes Mark but Perfetti and him read the play similarily in the offensive zone.

Cool - Perfetti is IMHO such a smart player. He sees the ice better than most.

 

[Channelcat]

Fell asleep after the second and was pumped when I checked .

I’m starting to think wheeler is getting played on what he gets paid . This has to be a Chipman choice .

Played better and loved Connor getting one .

If the top 6 starts playing like the bottom 6 we can make a run

There's no question. TNSE has always utilized players based on pay. Theyll ride a bad contract right into the ground. It's ridiculous.......but that's how they think.

 

[Jet]

There's no question. TNSE has always utilized players based on pay. Theyll ride a bad contract right into the ground. It's ridiculous.......but that's how they think.

I think that it's probably a semantics issue. I don't think that they use a player based on pay, I think they pay a player based on what they think their value and ability is. They play that player based on that perceived value, not on their salary.

I know it can be considered semantics, but it's an important differentiator.

If the Jets believe a player to be of a certain value, they are likely to utilize that player appropriately. I think the issue is if a player consistently shows that they are not of that value they have to be reassessed and utilized appropriately.

The real question is how much time does a player get to overcome natural dips in play? If you've made a high investment in a player (both in dollars and or draft capital) they will get a longer rope because they are of a higher investment - and by extension more likely to be valued higher because of their capabilities.

I'd say Pionk has reached the end of his rope in terms of utilization. A guy like Wheeler gets more because I think he showed even this season, before 'ballgate' that he could still execute at a high level.

I think with Pionk the worry is simply that no one can replace him at this moment, fighting for the playoffs. If they demote or scratch him they risk losing him completely - he does still make good plays and has good spells of play.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to find a way to move on from him in the offseason, though

 

[Jets 31]

I think that it's probably a semantics issue. I don't think that they use a player based on pay, I think they pay a player based on what they think their value and ability is. They play that player based on that perceived value, not on their salary.

I know it can be considered semantics, but it's an important differentiator.

If the Jets believe a player to be of a certain value, they are likely to utilize that player appropriately. I think the issue is if a player consistently shows that they are not of that value they have to be reassessed and utilized appropriately.

The real question is how much time does a player get to overcome natural dips in play? If you've made a high investment in a player (both in dollars and or draft capital) they will get a longer rope because they are of a higher investment - and by extension more likely to be valued higher because of their capabilities.

I'd say Pionk has reached the end of his rope in terms of utilization. A guy like Wheeler gets more because I think he showed even this season, before 'ballgate' that he could still execute at a high level.

I think with Pionk the worry is simply that no one can replace him at this moment, fighting for the playoffs. If they demote or scratch him they risk losing him completely - he does still make good plays and has good spells of play.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to find a way to move on from him in the offseason, though

I would hope we move on from Pionk or Schmidt , both make too much money for what they are bringing to the ice.

 

[Jet]

I would hope we move on from Pionk or Schmidt , both make too much money for what they are bringing to the ice.

Agreed. Especially if we manage to re-up 55 37 and 80 well need to economize on the back end.

Heinola Samberg and Capo should be able to fill the gaps with tree as a pb guy

 

[Channelcat]

I would hope we move on from Pionk or Schmidt , both make too much money for what they are bringing to the ice.

Its so weird that Pionk dissappeared right after signing that deal.....

 

[Jets 31]

Lowry's line looked great, particularly Appleton who was a difference maker last night. As such any thought of bumping Wheeler down to RW3 to replace isn't sound reasoning.

That was easily Appleton's best game of the season, would really help if he can keep playing like that.

 

[Jet]

Its so weird that Pionk dissappeared right after signing that deal.....

I don't think that's fair at all. I don't think anyone can honestly say that effort is lacking in Pionks game. I feel like he's trying really hard, it's not his fault that Chevy gave him that contract after one year of performance

 

[LowLefty]

I think that it's probably a semantics issue. I don't think that they use a player based on pay, I think they pay a player based on what they think their value and ability is. They play that player based on that perceived value, not on their salary.

I know it can be considered semantics, but it's an important differentiator.

If the Jets believe a player to be of a certain value, they are likely to utilize that player appropriately. I think the issue is if a player consistently shows that they are not of that value they have to be reassessed and utilized appropriately.

The real question is how much time does a player get to overcome natural dips in play? If you've made a high investment in a player (both in dollars and or draft capital) they will get a longer rope because they are of a higher investment - and by extension more likely to be valued higher because of their capabilities.

I'd say Pionk has reached the end of his rope in terms of utilization. A guy like Wheeler gets more because I think he showed even this season, before 'ballgate' that he could still execute at a high level.

I think with Pionk the worry is simply that no one can replace him at this moment, fighting for the playoffs. If they demote or scratch him they risk losing him completely - he does still make good plays and has good spells of play.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to find a way to move on from him in the offseason, though

IMO, Wheelers major issue is that he can't play top 6 minutes. He doesn't have the energy to engage and the most recent tell tale sign is that he is falling down a lot.
I have to assume he doesn't have a balance issue - so I have to assume he just doesn't have the legs anymore.

I'd move him down the lineup - 4th line preferably. He'd play 8 minutes a night and would probably be more effective in that short time on ice, versus trying to play minutes he simply can no longer play.

The argument has always been his production - and he knows that he gets the points based on his ability to pass the puck (because now he is over passing more than ever). But IMO, he's not really that creative or much of a playmaker - and what he is doing out there now (offensively) should be replaceable with a player that can pass the puck from A to B - that a basic skill most of these guy have and is all that we are really getting from Wheels at this point.

I don't care what he earns - I assume the org will move him after this season anyway - so just get him out of the top 6 - he can't handle the minutes. And this will only get worse as we move deeper into the season / PO's. - get someone else in there now.

I also get that Perfetti might be back in time and ready to go - but I would have a backup regardless. Perfetti may need more time that we think and I don't know how durable he'll be in a PO environment. IMO, he needs an offseason to bulk up a bit or he will be dealing with the same issues for awhile.

 

[Jet]

IMO, Wheelers major issue is that he can't play top 6 minutes. He doesn't have the energy to engage and the most recent tell tale sign is that he is falling down a lot.
I have to assume he doesn't have a balance issue - so I have to assume he just doesn't have the legs anymore.

I'd move him down the lineup - 4th line preferably. He'd play 8 minutes a night and would probably be more effective in that short time on ice, versus trying to play minutes he simply can no longer play.

The argument has always been his production - and he knows that he gets the points based on his ability to pass the puck (because now he is over passing more than ever). But IMO, he's not really that creative or much of a playmaker - and what he is doing out there now (offensively) should be replaceable with a player that can pass the puck from A to B - that a basic skill most of these guy have and is all that we are really getting from Wheels at this point.

I don't care what he earns - I assume the org will move him after this season anyway - so just get him out of the top 6 - he can't handle the minutes. And this will only get worse as we move deeper into the season / PO's. - get someone else in there now.

I also get that Perfetti might be back in time and ready to go - but I would have a backup regardless. Perfetti may need more time that we think and I don't know how durable he'll be in a PO environment. IMO, he needs an offseason to bulk up a bit or he will be dealing with the same issues for awhile.

I just think that Wheeler has shown, quite a bit last year, and again before the injury this year that he still has the ability to produce consistently. If we had a bunch of guys banging down the door that could produce like him then I'd be more in your mind of quickly moving him down. However, who do we have that can play RW and produce like him?

MAYBE Namestnikov but he hasn't shown he can consistently produce at that level.

I think that the team is hoping that Wheeler finds a groove again in time for the playoffs. It's really our only hope right now as even when Perfetti returns, he is not going to be at full speed, and he's never produced at the rate of Wheeler anyway.

I think the most logical thing to do is keep playing Wheeler in that role and hope he rediscovers some of his magic, and then decide what to do with him in the offseason.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Dominated most of the way - except when on PP.
Still can't score.
It was only against the Ducks though.
If they can play like that against the good teams, they will win more than they lose. Surely the puck will start going in more often. That is a big if. Remains to be seen.

The shots I saw of the crowd showed a lot of MT seats. Also a lot of Jets fans. Did they outnumber the Ducks fans?

So many Jets fans going south for the winter is another factor in selling tickets in Wpg.

 

[Channelcat]

I don't think that's fair at all. I don't think anyone can honestly say that effort is lacking in Pionks game. I feel like he's trying really hard, it's not his fault that Chevy gave him that contract after one year of performance

I'm usually a defender of Pionks play. I agree that he works hard 80%ish of the time, just that 6M each for him and Nate is just too much. That being said, I also realize we would be hooped without those two.

 

[ps241]

It's so funny because if that goes in on that pass people are singing his praises.

Wheeler used to routinely make passes like that, I know that hasn't been the case recently.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be on the 3rd line, and when Perfetti comes back that should absolutely happen

The problem with putting Blake on the 3rd line is the area where he has fallen off the planet is in his defensive play. Not sure what the optimal solution is for deployment.

 

[Ggg99]

Fell asleep after the second and was pumped when I checked .

I’m starting to think wheeler is getting played on what he gets paid . This has to be a Chipman choice .

Played better and loved Connor getting one .

If the top 6 starts playing like the bottom 6 we can make a run

I believe the bolded is a huge factor in Wheeler's ice time a PP usage.

And the loyalty factor. Chipman obviously is very loyal to those close to him and Wheeler is in that circle. Maurice recognized it and his instincts were highly tuned as well as his ability to understand the politics for how to survive long term as an NHL coach. Hence Wheeler's long leash and ability to pretty much dictate his linemates, ice time, PP usage, the room culture..... All under the pretense of "some guys don't need coaching".

It looked like that would change under Bones when he stripped the "C" but not much else has changed with regard to Wheeler's ice time, PP usage and place in the top 6. Even as he regresses at an alarming rate on the ice which is killing us especially on the PP and is obvious to even the casual fan.

So I think Bones can read the tea leaves, maybe not as well as Maurice but you gotta believe he feels the pressure from above, maybe all the way up to Chipman, to keep Wheeler and his salary on ice, in the top 6 and on the PP.

But I didn't think job security as HC of the Jets would mean nearly as much to Bones as it did to Maurice. Don't think Bones was looking to turn this into a long term gig and would be less influenced by the guys upstairs. So demote Wheeler already.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We're in a playoff push with 9 games left. Potential White Out incoming

It should be fun to be a Jets fan right now. If you're pissed about X, Y, or Z right now... I'm not sure what to say

Let go and enjoy the ride

Sure. WTH, why not?

 

[voyageur]

I don't think that's fair at all. I don't think anyone can honestly say that effort is lacking in Pionks game. I feel like he's trying really hard, it's not his fault that Chevy gave him that contract after one year of performance

2 years. I mean Pionk carried Forbort a lot in that 2nd year, where Forbort would get attacked off the edge. And that pairing was probably the most consistent the Jets had, including a solid performance against the Oilers, to get to the 2nd round. For 2 years it was clear the Jets only had 2 top defensemen and they were Morrissey and Pionk.

Last season Spezza kneeing him in the head probably didn't help his career. Those hurt, I can tell you as someone who got targeted with headshots. And he came back like nothing happened.

But he hasn't been the same player since...

I think a lot of Bones facial expressions come from Neal Pionk shifts. I wonder if the two can healthily coexist for much longer. He's still one of the better skaters on the defense. But he's not one of the better defenders anymore. Probably still the 2nd best puck mover on the team, but bad puck movement is an issue too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The good news is we continue to find ways to win games. The team has a lot of talent and potential to be a dominate team for years to come if all players remain on the same page and actually buy in.

For those who missed it here is a video of one of Wheelers flubs tonight

Yeah, poor Wheeler. By my eye-test, time has caught up with him. He hasn't been the same since his injury. (lol, who would be?)
Its been coming gradually for 2-3 years and now I think it has arrived. At least time to cut his TOI, take him off the PP.

Coach really can't complain with that effort. They played well and stuck to the game plan of get it up high and crash the net. Retrieval and ozone possesion were much better.

Happy Conner finally got one. Dubois looked a lot better as well. Everyone else played well.

Ehlers with Scheif and Connor with PLD has to help.

 

[WolfHouse]

The duo has outscored the opposition 19 to 9 when on the ice together.

Mark is 30 gf 41 GA without Cole.

Not saying Cole makes Mark but Perfetti and him read the play similarily in the offensive zone.

Interesting stat - but I'd also wager that most of Scheif's time with Perfetti was earlier in the season when Scheif was actually committed to playing team D instead of worrying about his own stats

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So the Flames need 7 extra points in the last 9 games to overtake us. They probably need to run the table now and even that might not be enough.

If the Flames run the table Jets need 12 points in the remaining 9 games. 6-3 might be asking for a bit much from these Jets. OTOH, 9-0 is way too much for these Flames.

 

[Inanna]

I believe the bolded is a huge factor in Wheeler's ice time a PP usage.

And the loyalty factor. Chipman obviously is very loyal to those close to him and Wheeler is in that circle. Maurice recognized it and his instincts were highly tuned as well as his ability to understand the politics for how to survive long term as an NHL coach. Hence Wheeler's long leash and ability to pretty much dictate his linemates, ice time, PP usage, the room culture..... All under the pretense of "some guys don't need coaching".

It looked like that would change under Bones when he stripped the "C" but not much else has changed with regard to Wheeler's ice time, PP usage and place in the top 6. Even as he regresses at an alarming rate on the ice which is killing us especially on the PP and is obvious to even the casual fan.

So I think Bones can read the tea leaves, maybe not as well as Maurice but you gotta believe he feels the pressure from above, maybe all the way up to Chipman, to keep Wheeler and his salary on ice, in the top 6 and on the PP.

But I didn't think job security as HC of the Jets would mean nearly as much to Bones as it did to Maurice. Don't think Bones was looking to turn this into a long term gig and would be less influenced by the guys upstairs. So demote Wheeler already.

When somebody writes "you gotta believe", my sensors go off. When I'm told more than once that something is "obvious", I get suspicious that I'm being sold something.

Just saying.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Small cushion over the Flames. There is no cushion with Preds having games in hand. Would all boil down to last Jets vs Preds game.

That is assuming Preds win the games in hand. They have a heavy schedule the rest of the way. Lets see what happens with those in hand games first.

 

[LowLefty]

I just think that Wheeler has shown, quite a bit last year, and again before the injury this year that he still has the ability to produce consistently. If we had a bunch of guys banging down the door that could produce like him then I'd be more in your mind of quickly moving him down. However, who do we have that can play RW and produce like him?

MAYBE Namestnikov but he hasn't shown he can consistently produce at that level.

I think that the team is hoping that Wheeler finds a groove again in time for the playoffs. It's really our only hope right now as even when Perfetti returns, he is not going to be at full speed, and he's never produced at the rate of Wheeler anyway.

I think the most logical thing to do is keep playing Wheeler in that role and hope he rediscovers some of his magic, and then decide what to do with him in the offseason.

I get your point - he is a skilled player

But my main point is that he is simply unable to play the minutes - and I worry about what he will be able to handle as we progress.
Replacing his skill wouldn't be easy - but I don't think he has the legs to even show us the skill at this point. When a player is falling down, losing pucks, completely unable to engage physically, and standing around as much as he is right now, I don't see where he will have an opportunity to show us his skill.
I can see someone with less skill and a ton more energy, making that line a lot more effective.

At this point, all I see from Wheels is the odd decent pass - it's damage control at this point for me - I think he is done.

 

[Jets 31]

When somebody writes "you gotta believe", my sensors go off. When I'm told more than once that something is "obvious", I get suspicious that I'm being sold something.

Just saying.

You gotta believe the Jets are making the playoffs and it's obvious they are winning the Cup .

 

[Adam da bomb]

I just think that Wheeler has shown, quite a bit last year, and again before the injury this year that he still has the ability to produce consistently. If we had a bunch of guys banging down the door that could produce like him then I'd be more in your mind of quickly moving him down. However, who do we have that can play RW and produce like him?

MAYBE Namestnikov but he hasn't shown he can consistently produce at that level.

I think that the team is hoping that Wheeler finds a groove again in time for the playoffs. It's really our only hope right now as even when Perfetti returns, he is not going to be at full speed, and he's never produced at the rate of Wheeler anyway.

I think the most logical thing to do is keep playing Wheeler in that role and hope he rediscovers some of his magic, and then decide what to do with him in the offseason.

Is Perfetti’s points and production really less if you take away pp and empty net opportunities?