Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi | His Mouth Contain His Tongue Only When He Eats Pizza

[frag2]

JP just turned 20 guys... His raw tools are awesome and he isn't a liability defensively. Give him some time ffs...

"Upside" to him not playing "well", if you want to call it an upside, is that it wont affect our cap as much. Downside is that we kind of need him to do well ASAP lol

 

[GameChanger]

Jokinen was a good candidate for a bounce back season, which clearly didn’t happen

Yeah it actually could've happened, as he finished his season well in Vancouver (10 points/+7 in 14 games).

Jokinen was a disappointment, but at that time he wasn't the only disappointment of the team. In fact there were quite a few players who got more responsibility but didn't score any better. IMO TM failed to prepare the team for the season, which naturally doesn't take the players' responsibility away.

 

[Drivesaitl]

JP just turned 20 guys... His raw tools are awesome and he isn't a liability defensively. Give him some time ffs...

His not doing well already resulted in one year of the team missing the playoffs and with one of the most obvious deficits being winger production depth.

With Lucic and Puljujarvi being the most apparent deficits in 17-18 play. So that this is a resultant and cost already experienced. We aren't getting that season back, nor the beneficial experience of a club making the playoffs and learning what is required every season. Instead we get a less confident squad this season more subject to ups and downs than being steadfastly confident in its ability to prevail.

NOBODY is saying its over with Pulju or its done. Many are saying this org, with this lineup, needs far more out of him and its reasonable to think he should deliver more.

but will he be much better? He'll be better, I think that's a given. But will he be good enough to fill what the team requires him to be in this lineup?

 

[MoneyGuy]

His not doing well already resulted in one year of the team missing the playoffs and with one of the most obvious deficits being winger production depth.

With Lucic and Puljujarvi being the most apparent deficits in 17-18 play. So that this is a resultant and cost already experienced. We aren't getting that season back, nor the beneficial experience of a club making the playoffs and learning what is required every season. Instead we get a less confident squad this season more subject to ups and downs than being steadfastly confident in its ability to prevail.

NOBODY is saying its over with Pulju or its done. Many are saying this org, with this lineup, needs far more out of him and its reasonable to think he should deliver more.

but will he be much better? He'll be better, I think that's a given. But will he be good enough to fill what the team requires him to be in this lineup?

Sure, Pulju was the reason we missed the playoffs. C'mon.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sure, Pulju was the reason we missed the playoffs. C'mon.

That isn't what I stated, in fairness, I stated that the absence of Winger production, and with Pulju and Lucic being the wingers that were supposed to produce was an obvious deficit and as even Chia mentions because he banked on those to be the production wingers in this lineup. Neither performed close to expectation.

There is nothing unreasonable in that assessment. Indeed it was the gameplan for winger depth for this season.

The other obvious deficits were D depth and quality lacking, with a salient amount of that being due to injury, but also do to having no elite D, or PMD to move things along.

Goaltending, yeah, to an extent a concern but too much made of this. Few teams are ever winning a lot on a constant diet of 0, 1, 2 goal run support that was happening a lot in first half of season. Talbot will be fine. Goaltending should not be an issue.

 

[harpoon]

Bit premature to read some of the stuff I’m seeing posted here about Puljujärvi. He’s one of a handful of young players the team is going to dress next season who has some legit upside. Granted he didn’t cover himself with glory last season, but he wasn’t nearly as bad as some of these posts suggest. I think it would be nice if the board would hold off on making sweeping pronouncements about the kid. Still lots of time for him to grow into a role on this club.

 

[McFlyingV]

That isn't what I stated, in fairness, I stated that the absence of Winger production, and with Pulju and Lucic being the wingers that were supposed to produce was an obvious deficit and as even Chia mentions because he banked on those to be the production wingers in this lineup. Neither performed close to expectation.

There is nothing unreasonable in that assessment. Indeed it was the gameplan for winger depth for this season.

The other obvious deficits were D depth and quality lacking, with a salient amount of that being due to injury, but also do to having no elite D, or PMD to move things along.

Goaltending, yeah, to an extent a concern but too much made of this. Few teams are ever winning a lot on a constant diet of 0, 1, 2 goal run support that was happening a lot in first half of season. Talbot will be fine. Goaltending should not be an issue.

Citing Puljujarvi and Lucic as winger problems in the first half of the year isn't actually correct though. By the end of the 41 game mark Lucic had 9-18-27 in 41GP and Puljujarvi had 8-3-11 in 24GP. Those two were far from the problem in the first half of the year.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Bit premature to read some of the stuff I’m seeing posted here about Puljujärvi. He’s one of a handful of young players the team is going to dress next season who has some legit upside. Granted he didn’t cover himself with glory last season, but he wasn’t nearly as bad as some of these posts suggest. I think it would be nice if the board would hold off on making sweeping pronouncements about the kid. Still lots of time for him to grow into a role on this club.

What "sweeping pronouncements" are these. I'm not seeing any posters saying this is done. Just that he hasn't delivered, which is not even debatable.

What I do see a lot of, on this and other threads, is attempts to strawman arguments, one of which just occurred above from Moneyguy.

 

[McFlyingV]

Bit premature to read some of the stuff I’m seeing posted here about Puljujärvi. He’s one of a handful of young players the team is going to dress next season who has some legit upside. Granted he didn’t cover himself with glory last season, but he wasn’t nearly as bad as some of these posts suggest. I think it would be nice if the board would hold off on making sweeping pronouncements about the kid. Still lots of time for him to grow into a role on this club.

Agreed. He showed several flashes of the player he could become, and he was 19 for every single game he played last season. Yeah he was inconsistent, and yeah he tailed off as the year progressed, but the hyperbole surrounding his play is a bit too much.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Citing Puljujarvi and Lucic as winger problems in the first half of the year isn't actually correct though. By the end of the 41 game mark Lucic had 9-18-27 in 41GP and Puljujarvi had 8-3-11 in 24GP. Those two were far from the problem in the first half of the year.

With Lucic this is more reasonable reply because his production was somewhat more consistent. With Pulju the most of it occurred in a string of games around 45 games ago in which a light appeared to possibly potentially go on. But which also was annoted by me as taking place against mostly some awful opponent performances and multiple with backup or questionable goaltending. The real concern is that most of Puljus production occurred in basically opponent folded nights. Which happens occasionally enough in 82 game seasons, but not enough to eke out an NHL production living.

The concern for me has to do with recency vs primacy. to me Pulju looked better at the start of the past two seasons and deteriorated from there in both seasons. With the latter season him being not very good for the last 45GP. Not an inconsiderable amount.

Yes the standard development isn't linear applies but success requires consistent hard work out on the ice we just weren't getting that kind of commitment most nights and most shifts from Pulju. Its disturbing that I can even state most months and be able to defend the statement.

 

[fireantz]

Can someone explain the achievements that Pulj has to hit for any bonus to kick in.

 

[McNuge]

His not doing well already resulted in one year of the team missing the playoffs and with one of the most obvious deficits being winger production depth.

With Lucic and Puljujarvi being the most apparent deficits in 17-18 play. So that this is a resultant and cost already experienced. We aren't getting that season back, nor the beneficial experience of a club making the playoffs and learning what is required every season. Instead we get a less confident squad this season more subject to ups and downs than being steadfastly confident in its ability to prevail.

NOBODY is saying its over with Pulju or its done. Many are saying this org, with this lineup, needs far more out of him and its reasonable to think he should deliver more.

but will he be much better? He'll be better, I think that's a given. But will he be good enough to fill what the team requires him to be in this lineup?

I don't disagree with any of that, I'm just sick of reading how much of a bust he is. He does need to be better, but at the end of the day he only turned 20 in May.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't disagree with any of that, I'm just sick of reading how much of a bust he is. He does need to be better, but at the end of the day he only turned 20 in May.

Because I literally only read around 3-4 threads here at any given time I don't see any of these comments. Are they actually occurring here or somewhere?

Proclamations of bust at this point are obviously premature, are not reasonable comments, and easy enough to ignore.. heh

 

[McFlyingV]

With Lucic this is more reasonable reply because his production was somewhat more consistent. With Pulju the most of it occurred in a string of games around 45 games ago in which a light appeared to possibly potentially go on. But which also was annoted by me as taking place against mostly some awful opponent performances and multiple with backup or questionable goaltending. The real concern is that most of Puljus production occurred in basically opponent folded nights. Which happens occasionally enough in 82 game seasons, but not enough to eke out an NHL production living.

The concern for me has to do with recency vs primacy. to me Pulju looked better at the start of the past two seasons and deteriorated from there in both seasons. With the latter season him being not very good for the last 45GP. Not an inconsiderable amount.

Yes the standard development isn't linear applies but success requires consistent hard work out on the ice we just weren't getting that kind of commitment most nights and most shifts from Pulju. Its disturbing that I can even state most months and be able to defend the statement.

I think you're being incredibly cynical to try and cherry pick his good stretch of games as "folded nights and backup goalies". The only games over that stretch where he recorded points and a backup goalie started the game were Chicago and Minnesota. He shouldn't be penalized for coming out with a great performance and chasing starting goalies. You're really reaching, and you lose all credibility with me if you criticize Puljujarvi's play over that stretch of games.

I don't disagree that his play declined after that point because it did and he needs to handle the ups and downs of the NHL better. He also needs to be put in a better position to succeed, and playing 2nd PP as a net front presence (in the little PP time he got) was not a great way to utilize him. Sticking him on the 3rd line to try and get the bottom 6 going when he was playing well also wasn't a great coaching choice as it quite clearly killed his confidence and quality of play.

Jesse has some work to do and some maturing to do. He needs to continue getting used to that massive frame of his working on his coordination and puck skills (not uncommon for a young kid who grew a ton over the past 3 years), and he needs to get stronger in that frame. He also needs to be more consistently engaged in games. I just think its silly to try and downplay his year as if it was all bad. It was ok for a 19 year old, and had its share of ups and downs. It was far from being all bad as you're suggesting, all things considered.

 

[McNuge]

Because I literally only read around 3-4 threads here at any given time I don't see any of these comments. Are they actually occurring here or somewhere?

Proclamations of bust at this point are obviously premature, are not reasonable comments, and easy enough to ignore.. heh

More so on the mains (surprise surprise) but I have seen some on the Oilers board being a bit more than critical of him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think you're being incredibly cynical to try and cherry pick his good stretch of games as "folded nights and backup goalies". The only games over that stretch where he recorded points and a backup goalie started the game were Chicago and Minnesota. He shouldn't be penalized for coming out with a great performance and chasing starting goalies. You're really reaching, and you lose all credibility with me if you criticize Puljujarvi's play over that stretch of games.

I don't disagree that his play declined after that point because it did and he needs to handle the ups and downs of the NHL better. He also needs to be put in a better position to succeed, and playing 2nd PP as a net front presence (in the little PP time he got) was not a great way to utilize him. Sticking him on the 3rd line to try and get the bottom 6 going when he was playing well also wasn't a great coaching choice as it quite clearly killed his confidence and quality of play.

Jesse has some work to do and some maturing to do. He needs to continue getting used to that massive frame of his working on his coordination and puck skills (not uncommon for a young kid who grew a ton over the past 3 years), and he needs to get stronger in that frame. He also needs to be more consistently engaged in games. I just think its silly to try and downplay his year as if it was all bad. It was ok for a 19 year old, and had its share of ups and downs. It was far from being all bad as you're suggesting, all things considered.

I'm not critiquing his better games, just giving some context. Nor is it aberrant to do so. Analytics for instance even tracking score metrics, behind, ahead, how many goals ahead etc. Score effects are real, padding against weak opponent performance is real and occurs. I can name multiple games where this occurred when I have some more time. That is not being critical of the performances its givng some background. Strome benefitted from the same.

We need more players on this team to be more consistent and of course through the season. We agree that a 45 game stretch of hardly any production is abysmal.

 

[harpoon]

What "sweeping pronouncements" are these. I'm not seeing any posters saying this is done. Just that he hasn't delivered, which is not even debatable.

I dunno. I see a lot of "Jesse sucks' type comments, not singling anyone out deliberately by not quoting anyone. Those are unfair, and/or premature in my opinion, be they present, past or future tense.

You wanna know who sucked? Caggiula. He had the same point totals as Puljujarvi and a lot more opportunity - and he's older and been playing North American hockey his whole life. Coach didn't use Puljujarvi correctly last season at all.

I've made my criticisms of JP in earlier versions of this thread. I think he was a bit too casual. I think he should have started learning English a lot sooner. And I wonder that most of his goals (to my memory) were created by using his long reach in front of the net to get at a loose puck (as opposed to the howitzer variety). Those aren't very big criticisms to have for a young kid looking to find his place on an extremely dysfunctional team - where guys like Lucic and Caggiula inexplicably get PP time and JP gets none, and the coach doesn't seem to know how to fill in a lineup card.

Let me ask you, 'legit upside' - who has it on this squad outside of JP? Lets cheer for the kid shall we?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I dunno. I see a lot of "Jesse sucks' type comments, not singling anyone out deliberately by not quoting anyone. Those are unfair, and/or premature in my opinion, be they present, past or future tense.

You wanna know who sucked? Caggiula. He had the same point totals as Puljujarvi and a lot more opportunity - and he's older and been playing North American hockey his whole life. Coach didn't use Puljujarvi correctly last season at all.

I've made my criticisms of JP in earlier versions of this thread. I think he was a bit too casual. I think he should have started learning English a lot sooner. And I wonder that most of his goals (to my memory) were created by using his long reach in front of the net to get at a loose puck (as opposed to the howitzer variety). Those aren't very big criticisms to have for a young kid looking to find his place on an extremely dysfunctional team - where guys like Lucic and Caggiula inexplicably get PP time and JP gets none, and the coach doesn't seem to know how to fill in a lineup card.

Let me ask you, 'legit upside' - who has it on this squad outside of JP? Lets cheer for the kid shall we?

Yeah.

Plus you know my opinion of Cagg not being worth the price/pound of liver. I know Pulju has at least potential upside, just that we haven't seen hardly any of it.

 

[nabob]

Sure, Pulju was the reason we missed the playoffs. C'mon.

Can’t believe posters are stopping to this level of stupidity. Yeah it’s the youngest player in the leagues fault that his team doesn’t have good winger depth. Then it’s his fault last year that their depth was even worse and he was very poorly utilized by his coach.

If you want to be upset at players not showing up there is a list ahead of Puljujarvi to rag on
- Lucic
- Kassian
- Slepy
- Cags
- Strome (when he played wing)
- Drai didn’t live up to expectations or his contract
- Hell Yamamoto is only a few months older than Puljujarvi can we rag on him too for us missing the playoffs? Or can we realize that our goaltending and defense combined with our special teams all sucked. None of which Jesse was a real part of at all.

 

[MoneyGuy]

That isn't what I stated, in fairness, I stated that the absence of Winger production, and with Pulju and Lucic being the wingers that were supposed to produce was an obvious deficit and as even Chia mentions because he banked on those to be the production wingers in this lineup. Neither performed close to expectation.

There is nothing unreasonable in that assessment. Indeed it was the gameplan for winger depth for this season.

The other obvious deficits were D depth and quality lacking, with a salient amount of that being due to injury, but also do to having no elite D, or PMD to move things along.

Goaltending, yeah, to an extent a concern but too much made of this. Few teams are ever winning a lot on a constant diet of 0, 1, 2 goal run support that was happening a lot in first half of season. Talbot will be fine. Goaltending should not be an issue.

“His not playing well already resulted in one year of the team missing the playoffs....”

Yeah, you went on and on but that part is pretty clear, unless you’re backing down from that statement. It’s ok if you are.

 

[Drivesaitl]

“His not playing well already resulted in one year of the team missing the playoffs....”

Yeah, you went on and on but that part is pretty clear, unless you’re backing down from that statement. It’s ok if you are.

That isn't even the original context, you quoted that entirely out of the context of the response to another poster.

Obviously Lucic and Pulju were part of the problem as the team expected them to be production wingers, they were not.

Go back to esks thread and fall asleep there.

 

[Zenos]

Can’t believe posters are stopping to this level of stupidity. Yeah it’s the youngest player in the leagues fault that his team doesn’t have good winger depth. Then it’s his fault last year that their depth was even worse and he was very poorly utilized by his coach.

If you want to be upset at players not showing up there is a list ahead of Puljujarvi to rag on
- Lucic
- Kassian
- Slepy
- Cags
- Strome (when he played wing)
- Drai didn’t live up to expectations or his contract
- Hell Yamamoto is only a few months older than Puljujarvi can we rag on him too for us missing the playoffs? Or can we realize that our goaltending and defense combined with our special teams all sucked. None of which Jesse was a real part of at all.

Of course, the laundry-list of poor performances was long last season. Seriously, one could argue that only McDavid, Nurse, RNH, and then Draisaitl, Khaira, and Russel had good seasons, (compared to expectations/potential). Everyone else took a step backwards or treaded-water.

But Jesse, being a third overall pick in his second NA pro season didn't exactly light the leauge on fire. I don't see any unfair criticism in here (unless you want to cherry-pick certain sentences without comprehending the rest of the message's context) and certainly nobody is calling him a bust....
Just that we expect/hope for more. He's young and shown some glimpses, so I think he's still a safe bet. No need for panic. But we don't need to shelter / coddle him either.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Throw Pulju into the fire. Give him every opportunity to show what he has by playing him with one of our two elite centres. I believe that we’ll find a solid second liner with higher potential in the guy.

 

[nabob]

Of course, the laundry-list of poor performances was long last season. Seriously, one could argue that only McDavid, Nurse, RNH, and then Draisaitl, Khaira, and Russel had good seasons, (compared to expectations/potential). Everyone else took a step backwards or treaded-water.

But Jesse, being a third overall pick in his second NA pro season didn't exactly light the leauge on fire. I don't see any unfair criticism in here (unless you want to cherry-pick certain sentences without comprehending the rest of the message's context) and certainly nobody is calling him a bust....
Just that we expect/hope for more. He's young and shown some glimpses, so I think he's still a safe bet. No need for panic. But we don't need to shelter / coddle him either.

If you want to cherry pick certain parts of posts from posters who have dedicated hours to slagging Jesse then yeah you wouldn’t see any unfair criticism.

The problem is that he has been sheltered and coddled too much. He’s amongst the team leader in a lot of stats for wingers including g/60 and scoring chances created/60 as well as scoring chances given up/60. He backcheck hard and plays a sound 200ft game yet he gets the Yakupov treatment, except he doesn’t get the PP time Yak got.

I hope for more from Jesse, but it’s hard to expect much more given the lack of opportunity for success.

 

[Dan Kelly]

A good point was made this afternoon by Studs on Gregor's TSN radio show about how the Oilers were surprised that Pool was still there at #4 and just took the BPA but never really did much scouting on this kid because they didn't expect him to be there. I'm thinking this is true, that maybe Columbus passed on him because they sensed that the hockey sense just wasn't there?

Very painful to hear this because Struds also mentioned the same thing we all pretty much knew, that the Oilers were interested in taking d-man Sergachev at #4. *sigh*....