Are the Panthers' issues over?

[SImpelton]

One swallow does not a summer make.

It's great and all that the Panthers won the Cup, and it's certainly going to help their quest to get better established in South Florida, but I'm kinda wondering how long the honeymoon's gonna be.

The Cup more or less guarantees that the Panthers aren't going anywhere for at least the next several seasons, but if Sunrise goes back to anemic attendance going forward we could be right back to where we have been with the franchise with Canadian towns that have no business in the NHL eyeing them hungrily because they still think it's 1960 when the gate was king and ticket revenues funded a franchise's entire operation.

Reason I'm asking is because of the Canes. 2006 was the start of the Canes getting comfortable in Carolina but it didn't end their issues as such. Until the current young, hungry core came into being in Raleigh the franchise was starting to fade again and the usual suspects were tying their bibs on and sharpening their carving knives. They've proven they do have some staying power but it took a lot of consistent hard work, which goes to show that the newer markets can't afford to grow complacent.

At the very least I hope that the success of the Panthers puts paid to the idea that they're the perfect "Team X to Quebec City" candidate for the time being, and that we can go on to other speculative teams from nontraditional markets to move to QC instead. But because like 2/3 of the content in this subforum is about moving a team to Quebec City, I doubt we'll ever be entirely out of the woods.

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[HisIceness]

They'll be in good hands for 5 years or so. They have Tkachuk, Barkov, Bob, Forsling, etc under contract for awhile. New practice facility, have been building towards contender, have created a rivalry with Tampa, etc. All of these things are attractive to potential new customers. Being in Florida also has perks.

Carolinas problem was after 2006, only making one playoff appearance for the next 13 years. As such, apathy set in and the ignorant know-nothings started spewing their bullshit about Quebec. 2006 was only year 6 in being in Raleigh, still new-ish. The Panthers just completed year 30 and now have a generation of fans.

 

[jkrdevil]

I think the Panthers will be able to build on this. The team competing sky isn’t going away. The 2006 Hurricanes in retrospect were a one off story. They missed in 2004 before the lockout and then missed the two seasons after 2006. The Panthers have been an elite team the least three years and there isn’t a reason to think that will suddenly stop.

The attendance has been increasing each of the past few years. That is going to continue. I don’t think the team will be a sellout every night team because the geographical nature of the market of it being very spread out and the arena being on the outer edges. But they’ll probably fall into the Dallas zone.

 

[Clint]

Holy shit we literally just won the Stanley Cup and you people want to revive the dark ages of zero attendance and persistent relocation rumors. Just let us have our moment, Jesus.

 

[dj4aces]

I'd say "the end of Florida's problems" started when the team changed owners. With a good owner and good management comes good things. It's really as simple as that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

We won't know the answer to this until the day comes where the Panthers suck again.

will attendance stay strong or will the building be empty again?

How many real fans are there?

 

[Bucky_Hoyt]

No franchises issues are ever 'over.'. Probably ok for a while but in the end of the century there may be no market to play in unless hockey merges with snorkeling.

 

[joelef]

We won't know the answer to this until the day comes where the Panthers suck again.

will attendance stay strong or will the building be empty again?

How many real fans are there?

You could say the same for Winnipeg

 

[BMN]

Holy shit we literally just won the Stanley Cup and you people want to revive the dark ages of zero attendance and persistent relocation rumors. Just let us have our moment, Jesus.

Don't come to the Business of Hockey forum to have a moment about anything.

 

[tucker3434]

Hope is important. Management needs to prove that this wasn't a fluke. From 2000 to 2020, the fans had almost nothing to cheer for. If they end up with another two decades of that, I'm sure attendance will plummet. Not many markets would look good with type of prolonged failure. If their next two decades are more normal/average, they should be fine.

 

[Last Rat Standing]

Living in Florida, I know first-hand that the market had been poor due to a variety of factors. However, most Southern markets with the exception of Arizona and to a recent extent, Anaheim have been successful over the past 10 years. Carolina won in 06 and only made the playoffs once in 13 years afterward. Not a recipe for franchise sustainability. However, Tampa, Dallas, Nashville and Vegas have all been successful both on the ice and the market since 2014. All have made deep playoff runs with Cup wins or appearances. There hasn't been much of a recent comparison of other markets because they've been successful and what may be seen once/if they fall from grace in the coming years

I'm hoping that the Panthers can mimic Tampas level of success.

 

[joelef]

This exactly what I’m talking about when I go after Canadian fans . Literally right after they when the cup people are calling for them to move.

 

[Yukon Joe]

This exactly what I’m talking about when I go after Canadian fans . Literally right after they when the cup people are calling for them to move.

If you use your reading comprehension skills you will see that absolutely no one is calling for the Panthers to move.

So the one negative I will say - when you watched game 7 - if you looked closely at the stands there had to be 40-50% Oilers fans. So that meant you had season ticket holders selling tickets rather than watch their team win game 7 at home.

But yes, since Viola took over the Panthers have been on a definite upswing. Winning the Stanley Cup will only increase that success. They have a huge advantage over many teams by being in a beautiful warm city and a state with no income tax. There's many reasons to be positive about the Panthers success going forward on and off the ice.

I used to say the Panthers were a pretty obvious relocation target once their lease expired in 2028. I'm no longer saying that. Stronger ownership willing to invest in the team plus stronger on-ice success which led to much better attendance means I don't consider it a relocation candidate any time soon.

Longer term - who knows? Miami is still a city with tons of other things to do than see a hockey game. If the team goes through a prolonged multi-year slump will the bad attendance return?

https://thehockeynews.com/news/panthers-staying-in-florida-until-at-least-2023-receive-86-million-from-county

So right now Broward County is subsidizing the Panthers to the tune of just over $10 million per year, paid through sales taxes. Panthers do in return have to pay some things but the Panthers get the better end of the deal.

So you can speculate - by 2028 the arena will be 30 years old. Will Viola try to push for a new arena, perhaps as part of a multi-use development project? Will Broward County pull a Glendale and refuse to subsidize the team? What's the succession plan for Viola (who is in his late 60s)?

Who knows. I would tend to think the Panthers are going to be fine, but those are the things to look out for long-term.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

So the one negative I will say - when you watched game 7 - if you looked closely at the stands there had to be 40-50% Oilers fans.

Please don't be ridiculous. There were fewer away fans there than we saw when the Rangers were in town (worst case scenario) and that was like maybe 15%.

They like to cluster in the club red (or whatever they call it now) seats behind the benches. The upper deck, club sections, and lower bowl near side were a sea of red.

This is dumber than when people said there was no one at the arena watch party beacuse the only camera on the ESPN feed was showing a tight-in shot. They had to start charging for watch party tickets (were initially free) because there was way too much demand and they couldn't seat everyone and had to open up a second watch party at the War Memorial. That was during historic flooding in West Broward, btw.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Please don't be ridiculous. There were fewer away fans there than we saw when the Rangers were in town (worst case scenario) and that was like maybe 15%.

They like to cluster in the club red (or whatever they call it now) seats behind the benches. The upper deck, club sections, and lower bowl near side were a sea of red.

This is dumber than when people said there was no one at the arena watch party beacuse the only camera on the ESPN feed was showing a tight-in shot. They had to start charging for watch party tickets (were initially free) because there was way too much demand and they couldn't seat everyone and had to open up a second watch party at the War Memorial. That was during historic flooding in West Broward, btw.

With respect I don't think so.

The one thing I'll grant you is we didn't get shots of the upper bowl. So maybe that was 100% Panthers fans - I can't say.

But I saw multiple shots in the lower bowl and there were huge numbers of blue-and-orange jerseys. During the opening anthems the fans sung "Oh Canada" loud and clear (which is very much an Edmonton tradition). Give props to the Panthers fans they responded with a strong singing of Star Spangled Banner. The Edmonton goal got a very loud crown pop.

And you picked the one negative thing I said, and left out all the other positive things I said about the Panthers.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

With respect I don't think so.

With respect, I go to the games.

If you think there were 50% Oilers fans in attendance, you are completely deluded.

 

[Yukon Joe]

With respect, I go to the games.

If you think there were 50% Oilers fans in attendance, you are completely deluded.

Were you in attendance for Game 7?

I didn't say that was true for the other games of the series. Edmonton to Florida is rough travel. But once Oilers fans felt like they had the chance to see their team win the cup an awful lot travelled down. Lots of social media posts of people in Oilers jerseys on planes or in bars/restaurants near the arena.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Were you in attendance for Game 7?

lmfao

My buddies were there and I've got plenty of videos from inside the rink. I was also at one of those Rangers games that were claimed to be "40% Rangers fans," which was another laughable take.

If you think the arena was 50% Oilers fans, you are reading the worst propaganda Canada has to offer and swallowing it wholesale. Wild that I even have to respond to this.

In a few years you guys will be claiming it was 100% Oilers fans inside the arena for game 7.

 

[Yukon Joe]

With respect, I go to the games.

Were you in attendance for Game 7?

lmfao

My buddies were there and I've got plenty of videos from inside the rink.

So the answer is no.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

The answer is: the arena was not even close to 50% Oilers fans. It was not even 25% Oilers fans. It was not even 15% Oilers fans. When you can be that grossly wrong about basic math, it's tough to make much hay out of the rest of your arguments. For more information:

Understanding Fractions • Understanding Fractions, Percent, and Decimals

Meaning of fractions, writing and using fractions, finding common denominators, add, subtract, multiply, and divide fractions, computing with percent, converting fractions to decimals

www.criticalthinking.com

 

[Salsero1]

Were you in attendance for Game 7?

I didn't say that was true for the other games of the series. Edmonton to Florida is rough travel. But once Oilers fans felt like they had the chance to see their team win the cup an awful lot travelled down. Lots of social media posts of people in Oilers jerseys on planes or in bars/restaurants near the arena.

Were you there for game 7? Why is heresy from oiler fan SM valid but OPs friends' not valid?

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Oh, he's an Oilers fan. NVM, should have known better. Have a nice summer.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

But I saw multiple shots in the lower bowl and there were huge numbers of blue-and-orange jerseys. During the opening anthems the fans sung "Oh Canada" loud and clear (which is very much an Edmonton tradition). Give props to the Panthers fans they responded with a strong singing of Star Spangled Banner. The Edmonton goal got a very loud crown pop.

I dunno...I have pics on my phone from a friend that was there (happy to share, but they usually show up HUGE on the site) and in the lower bowl I see a major see of red and white with a speckle of blue.

Overall...this thread is ridiculous.

 

[Look Up]

Oh, he's an Oilers fan. NVM, should have known better. Have a nice summer.

/thread

 

[Yukon Joe]

Oh, he's an Oilers fan. NVM, should have known better. Have a nice summer.

First of all - f*** the Oilers. The Oilers losing brought me joy. I'm a Jets fan. I just live here.

@Salsero1, @WaitingForThatCab clearly meant to imply he was at the game, but when confronted tried to wriggle out. If he was at the game - that would be an appeal to authority that has some value. If neither of us are - it becomes a more open question.

I just remember seeing a picture on Twitter on Monday from the game. Now - Orange and red look pretty similar from a distance (and blue isn't as visible). But when you zoomed in I was going "Holy Shit look how many Oilers jerseys there are". I can't find that picture now of course. Plus of course just the crown noise sounded pretty balanced.

And it's just so HFBoards where I say a whole bunch of nice things about the Panthers and their organization, and get jumped on for the one negative.