Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 20 - Second line centre edition?

[Heffyhoof]

Exactly. I still think he is salvageable, however, and that he can still become a useful player. But won't ever be a 1C, that is blatantly obvious by now, if it wasn't already. Him being a 1C was always a pipe-dream.

Your take on him is then that he is not a useful player at the NHL level currently? If not what did you mean by useful?

 

[Habby4Life]

Exactly. I still think he is salvageable, however, and that he can still become a useful player. But won't ever be a 1C, that is blatantly obvious by now, if it wasn't already. Him being a 1C was always a pipe-dream.

I don’t even see 2c. No significant improvement from yr 1. THey drafted a flimsy Eller

NS is 1000 miles ahead of this guy. In fact, if Evans was given all the same chances he too would be miles better.

Kk is where offense goes to die! If he’s there 2 they have zero chance of playoffs, unless NS plays 40 minutes a night.

 

[canucklover123]

KK does get the right amount of TOI and quite often, more than often the leftover wingers............
The kid has not been afforded the proper chance, pretty simple.
His development has been somewhat hindered by his own coaches, at times....makes you wonder if he had played his first three years at the NHL level, with better wingers, like Gally and Tatar what might have happened?
You make some good points about his progression....but that's not the total story....

kk has been paired up with Tyler Toffoli and/or Anderson as his most used wingers this year...... not sure why you say leftover

one of those is our best winger this year

 

[Habs Icing]

Regarding KK at 2C, this is somewhat of a transition year for the Habs where missing the playoffs would not be tragedy whatsoever. Looking at the current roster and prospects situation, the Habs cup window should begin in the 2023-2024 season if everything goes well as Suzuki and Caufield would be in their prime, Romanov being more seasoned, key vets still under contract and Guhle/Norlinder hopefully beginning to make an impact

For that window to happen, we need to see what we have in Kotkaniemi and if he can become that physical 2-way second center

As such, I would give him the full responsibilities of the 2-way center that the Habs need him to become and assess what we have in him next season. We can actually afford to miss the playoffs next year, the Atlantic is going to be a bloodbath and several metro teams added. What we need to see is development of the next core: Suzuki, Caufield, Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Romanov and try to make the playoffs with them and a nice cast of veteran support on the wings and on defence

If we get 40-45 points and good 2-way play in a full season out of KK, I would be satisfied

Name me contenders that have 40-45 point 2nd line centers. When you can do that then your satisfaction can be justified.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I don’t even see 2c. No significant improvement from yr 1. THey drafted a flimsy Eller

NS is 1000 miles ahead of this guy. In fact, if Evans was given all the same chances he too would be miles better.

Kk is where offense goes to die! If he’s there 2 they have zero chance of playoffs, unless NS plays 40 minutes a night.

I honestly don't blame you for being skeptical of 2C upside at this point either. The hopes for that too are certainly dwindling. I think there's still a chance for 2C, but just as big a chance that he stagnates as the pseudo-3C he is currently or ends up going back to Finland in the next few years.

 

[Habs Icing]

Yeah idk, KK still couldn't outscore "The Ghost of Staalsy Past" and I saw Staal make some defensive plays throughout the playoffs that are just beyond KK at this point in time. Staal also brings leadership and experience, and was playing a bottom-6 role. KK isn't suited for a bottom-6 role, and wasn't good enough to play in the top-6. That was probably the coaches' rational. Kind of makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, if you put aside the "OMG he was a 3rd overall pick; he needs to play!!!!!!!" argument...

You forgot the "he has an angelic smile" argument.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Name me contenders that have 40-45 point 2nd line centers. When you can do that then your satisfaction can be justified.

Not that it surprises me but Kotkaniemi playing at around a 0.5 ppg pace and being a good 2-way center while doing it next season isn't good enough?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Not that it surprises me but Kotkaniemi playing at around a 0.5 ppg pace and being a good 2-way center while doing it next season isn't good enough?

...that only counts for Danault playing #1C...

 

[Habs Icing]

"Hot take"? I don't think you even know what that means. We are talking about 3 years here. There has been ZERO progress from KK in 3 years. He is the EXACT same player that showed up at rookie camp 3 years ago. Tell me what you claim he has improved?

I'm a big KK detractor and I see an improvement. His skating went from "oh my god what idiot thought this was an NHL player" to "meh"

 

[Habs Icing]

Not that it surprises me but Kotkaniemi playing at around a 0.5 ppg pace and being a good 2-way center while doing it next season isn't good enough?

Not as a 2nd line center it isn't.

 

[Apfel Struble]

Name me contenders that have 40-45 point 2nd line centers. When you can do that then your satisfaction can be justified.

EDIT: It came way too rude sorry

I meant it I would be satisfied for next season, not in the long run obviously

 

[Garbageyuk]

You forgot the "he has an angelic smile" argument.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm a big KK detractor and I see an improvement. His skating went from "oh my god what idiot thought this was an NHL player" to "meh"

He went from Bambi on skates to being on par with Pinocchio's flimsy wooden legs

 

[Habs Icing]

EDIT: It came way too rude sorry

I meant it I would be satisfied for next season, not in the long run obviously

No, you didn't come off as rude, I was just trying to make a dramatic point. Even this for this up coming year those are not good numbers considering he'll be used as a #2 and he'll get the third and fourth-best wingers on the team plus regular PP minutes.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

kk has been paired up with Tyler Toffoli and/or Anderson as his most used wingers this year...... not sure why you say leftover

one of those is our best winger this year

He was fine with Toffoli, he produced at a 0.51 ppg after 37 games, during his awful stretch of 1 points in 19 games, he played mostly with Anderson and he hardly, if ever played with Toffoli at 5 on 5. During that span Anderson had 4 points.

Edit: Never mind, my message has nothing to do with your conversation.

 

[Heffyhoof]

...that only counts for Danault playing #1C...

The double standard is so blatant I can't help but laugh. Good enough for one player to be a #1 C but not good enough for another to even be the #2 C.

 

[BLONG7]

kk has been paired up with Tyler Toffoli and/or Anderson as his most used wingers this year...... not sure why you say leftover

one of those is our best winger this year

Not very much with those two
As compared to the Byrons and Let's
They even stuck him with Drouin for a couple of games

 

[Zorba]

I'm a big KK detractor and I see an improvement. His skating went from "oh my god what idiot thought this was an NHL player" to "meh"

Meh isn’t exactly great after 3 years. He needs to gain lower body strength. This isn’t as easy as posters think it is

 

[417]

I'm a KK fan and believe he'll be a good NHL'er going forward but he has to start putting up points this year. He doesn't need to be a 60 point guy right now but 40 should be accomplished, especially if he stays in that #2 hole with PP time.

He hasn’t really been put in a position or relied upon to produce points so far.

 

[417]

I think KK will be a very good top 6 forward but the question is a matter of when. His development path is not like Suzuki or Caufield. He's got a big frame that he needs to fill into. Different type of player than the other two

The question of when is when…Will be answered when the Habs actually want to give him that opportunity.

So far, they haven’t wanted or needed him too.

 

[Canadienna]

What does an 8 year contract cost for Kotkaniemi?

Obviously he's not dumb and would likely would prefer a shorter term deal, but just hypothetically what would it cost to get him to agree to 8 years?

5-6m? More?

We've got the cap space...

 

[Gravity]

What does an 8 year contract cost for Kotkaniemi?

Obviously he's not dumb and would likely would prefer a shorter term deal, but just hypothetically what would it cost to get him to agree to 8 years?

5-6m? More?

We've got the cap space...

Nah. Better off with the bridge.

 

[Gravity]

I have a bad feeling he'll be traded for Beauvillier.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I have a bad feeling he'll be traded for Beauvillier.

You can relax; NYI say no.

 

[Garbageyuk]

What does an 8 year contract cost for Kotkaniemi?

Obviously he's not dumb and would likely would prefer a shorter term deal, but just hypothetically what would it cost to get him to agree to 8 years?

5-6m? More?

We've got the cap space...

Lol wow.