Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - agreed to 8 x 8.25 aav

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[Cronuss]

Imagine not having one single full season as the #1 goalie in your entire career, and demanding more than $8M over 8 years. Dude just got a dream contract that is honestly a huge risk for Boston... and it's not good enough? Perhaps time to move on from this distraction.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

No? So basically the only teammate Swayman is allowed to compare himself to salary wise is his fellow Bruins goalies?

Within dressing rooms players don't think that way. These are competitive guys and they compare themselves to each other in terms of their importance or pecking order on the team. Position does not matter. Heck if anything, goalies who perform well are placed on a pedistal within the dressing room. Aren't goalies the most important player on the ice?

Part of this whole negotiation is appealing to the ego of the athlete. Why the &^%^ should Jeremy Swayman accept making the same amount of money as Elias Lindholm over the next 7 years? What's Elias Lindholm ever done for the Bruins franchise? Up to this point, absolutely nothing. We aren't comparing Swayman to Patrice Bergeron here.

This falls on Sweeney IMO. He set the precedent with the McAvoy contract in October 2021. He added fuel to the fire with Hampus Lindholm, Elias Lindholm, even Nikita Zadorov. You can't expect your young franchise players to take less just because you overpaid guys in the 2nd tier of your roster, or in McAvoy's case, pay them more on their future projection than what they've actually done at the NHL level. It's not like McAvoy had a bunch of Norris trophies when he signed his big deal.

People talk about internal salary caps all the time, not letting player B/C/D/E make more than player A. Well it works both ways.

Anything over $8.5M puts him above Hellebuyck and $9.5M gets him to Vasilevskiy. Yea, a bit of inflation. But - again, as an RFA - still a huge leap given his career, especially when you look at Saros and Sorokin.

You are campaigning for Swayman to completely upend how goalies are treated while at the same time wanting to ignore his RFA status. And that’s fine. But this is a completely new dynamic you’re proposing - and may quite possibly be where the Swayman camp is pushing.

How many teams do you think would come to the table to negotiate a trade if they first had to agree to 8x$9.5M with Swayman? Or even $9M?

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

You have to wonder how long 8x8 has been on the table though. If BOS has been at 8x8 since day 1 and Swayman as been at 8x9.5 since day 1, then shame on both of them for making ZERO progress all summer long.

I doubt the Bruins were at 8x8 on day 1. Friedman put out they were "in the sixes" on an 8 year deal, but it sounded like it was very early and where they started at. 8x8 could have been on the table for a few weeks now or since the start of camp.

Sounds a lot more like Swayman is still sticking at 9.5x8 to me. I'd think if Swayman had budged some and they were close (under 1M apart) to a deal that Neely holds back on his comment today.

 

[Scotto74]

No? So basically the only teammate Swayman is allowed to compare himself to salary wise is his fellow Bruins goalies?

Within dressing rooms players don't think that way. These are competitive guys and they compare themselves to each other in terms of their importance or pecking order on the team. Position does not matter. Heck if anything, goalies who perform well are placed on a pedistal within the dressing room. Aren't goalies the most important player on the ice?

Part of this whole negotiation is appealing to the ego of the athlete. Why the &^%^ should Jeremy Swayman accept making the same amount of money as Elias Lindholm over the next 7 years? What's Elias Lindholm ever done for the Bruins franchise? Up to this point, absolutely nothing. We aren't comparing Swayman to Patrice Bergeron here.

This falls on Sweeney IMO. He set the precedent with the McAvoy contract in October 2021. He added fuel to the fire with Hampus Lindholm, Elias Lindholm, even Nikita Zadorov. You can't expect your young franchise players to take less just because you overpaid guys in the 2nd tier of your roster, or in McAvoy's case, pay them more on their future projection than what they've actually done at the NHL level. It's not like McAvoy had a bunch of Norris trophies when he signed his big deal.

People talk about internal salary caps all the time, not letting player B/C/D/E make more than player A. Well it works both ways.

If swayman sees himself as comparable to other position players inside and outside the org. why then did he admit he was trying to set a precedent for the Goalie market in the NHL for future goaltenders that will be in the position he is currently in himself? that is what he actually said anyway. unless somehow you know even though he said that he wants to set the goalie market he really compares himself to position players in his mind.

 

[lopey]

Swayman, Ryder, and a 1st for Crosby...

Not most Bruins fans that I know...and I know quite a few.

He throws untruths out there as facts

 

[Byron Bitz]

If he holds out for an entire season what will his contract status be next off season? UFA?

 

[UncleRico]

If swayman sees himself as comparable to other position players inside and outside the org. why then did he admit he was trying to set a precedent for the Goalie market in the NHL for future goaltenders that will be in the position he is currently in himself? that is what he actually said anyway. unless somehow you know even though he said that he wants to set the goalie market he really compares himself to position players in his mind.

Because he never said that and you misinterpreted his words

 

[TD Charlie]

I doubt the Bruins were at 8x8 on day 1. Friedman put out they were "in the sixes" on an 8 year deal, but it sounded like it was very early and where they started at. 8x8 could have been on the table for a few weeks now or since the start of camp.

Sounds a lot more like Swayman is still sticking at 9.5x8 to me. I'd think if Swayman had budged some and they were close (under 1M apart) to a deal that Neely holds back on his comment today.

Agreed. Clearly I don't know for sure, I just cant imagine Neely being a smart ass like that if they were on the precipice of an agreement.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

If he holds out for an entire season what will his contract status be next off season? UFA?

no change. he'll still have 2 RFA years to go

 

[TD Charlie]

If he holds out for an entire season what will his contract status be next off season? UFA?

Still very much restricted

 

[lopey]

You have to wonder how long 8x8 has been on the table though. If BOS has been at 8x8 since day 1 and Swayman as been at 8x9.5 since day 1, then shame on both of them for making ZERO progress all summer long.

I don’t understand this argument. Bruins likely low balled out of the gate and Swaymen likely went high. Usually thats what happens in negotiations. All that matters is that the bruins are now at 8x8 and i highly doubt Neely would say a thing about numbers if the offer was not turned down

 

[Scotto74]

Because he never said that and you misinterpreted his words

“The answer I’m gonna give you this year, is that I’ve educated myself, and I understand the business side of it all. It’s given me a complete new mindset of understanding the business and how to react to it. I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can’t ruin the goalie market for guys that are gonna be in my shoes down the line. I went to the school of Business for the university of Maine, and I love the business side of it all.”

he is referring to his comparables in the goalie market. No goalie brings in compariables that don't play goalie.

he says "How I can't ruin the goalie market" goalie's compared to each other

 

[since76]

It’s time to look what bruins can get for him.
If it is good for the team move forward, if not send him home for season.
Tired of crying baby milionnaires.

 

[TD Charlie]

“The answer I’m gonna give you this year, is that I’ve educated myself, and I understand the business side of it all. It’s given me a complete new mindset of understanding the business and how to react to it. I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can’t ruin the goalie market for guys that are gonna be in my shoes down the line. I went to the school of Business for the university of Maine, and I love the business side of it all.”

he is referring to his comparables in the goalie market. No goalie brings in compariables that don't play goalie.

I cant believe we are still saying this, but

Can't ruin =/= Reset

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

Swayman, Ryder, and a 1st for Crosby...

Do the Pens need 2 goaltenders?

 

[lopey]

I really think the union and sways agent are pushing for a bigger deal Goalies right or wrong are not valued as high as centres or d men. Union wants to change that an want Sway to be the poster bou

 

[Scotto74]

I cant believe we are still saying this, but

Can't ruin =/= Reset

fine but the point we are discussing is who he is using as compariables and he says he can't ruin the goalie market for guys that will be in his position. If he didn't compare himself to other goalies but all players why would he say the "goalie market" is what he can ruin and not the RFA market in general.

 

[TD Charlie]

fine but the point we are discussing is how he is using as compariables and he says he can't ruin the goalie market for guys that will be in his position. If he didn't compare himself to other goalies but all players why would he say the "goalie market" is what he can ruin and not the RFA market in general.

IDK, ask him that

I'm just looking at what he literally said.

His actions might prove something different, but what he said is something vastly different than what so many posters are littering the internet with

EDIT: Now that I think of it, of course he would say the goalie market...why compare himself to a left wing? With goalies he can go stat for stat on a comparison.

 

[Scotto74]

IDK, ask him that

I'm just looking at what he literally said.

His actions might prove something different, but what he said is something vastly different than what so many posters are littering the internet with

I am also looking at what he literally said and posted the quote. I will take back the reset the goalie market comment as that was not what i was debating. I was debating the point of him comparing himself to other positional players. if that was what he was doing he would not have said he can ruin the goalie market. he would have said he can ruin the RFA market or the market in general but he literally said the "Goalie market" . his literal words.

 

[BruinDust]

Anything over $8.5M puts him above Hellebuyck and $9.5M gets him to Vasilevskiy. Yea, a bit of inflation. But - again, as an RFA - still a huge leap given his career, especially when you look at Saros and Sorokin.

You are campaigning for Swayman to completely upend how goalies are treated while at the same time wanting to ignore his RFA status. And that’s fine. But this is a completely new dynamic you’re proposing - and may quite possibly be where the Swayman camp is pushing.

How many teams do you think would come to the table to negotiate a trade if they first had to agree to 8x$9.5M with Swayman? Or even $9M?

To a certain degree, yes I am.

Connor Hellebuyck signed that contract at 30 years old. And let's be honest, his playoff record is very suspect. He insists on playing 60+ games every year and it shoots him and his team square in the foot every time.

Saros is 29. Still has never won a playoff series. That being said I felt he took less than he should but factor in no state tax and his own desire to stay in Nashville (I assume), that isn't Swayman's problem IMO.

Andrei Vasilievsky was 25 when he signed his current deal max deal and he signed it Summer 2019 before he ever won a cup or Conn Smythe. He wasn't that far beyond Swayman when he inked that deal. A shade over 200 games played and coming off a disasterous playoff in 2019. Then factor in what the cap was then, what is is right now, and where it is expected to be going, 9.5 per for Swayman is starting to look light in comparison. Oh and there is also the no state tax thing there as well.

That's the issue here all summer. There is no goaltender currently under contract that is a true comparable. In every case there are factors that don't line up. Whether it's age, their track record, when they signed, what the cap was, where the cap went, etc. etc. His real comparables are Shesterkin, Oettinger, when healthy I'd add Demko. But they are still on their bridge deals and unfortunately for the Bruins and their fans, someone has to go first among that group and it's Swayman.

Personally I think the numbers of teams who would sign him to 9-9.5 over a 8 year deal are numerous.

 

[UncleRico]

“The answer I’m gonna give you this year, is that I’ve educated myself, and I understand the business side of it all. It’s given me a complete new mindset of understanding the business and how to react to it. I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can’t ruin the goalie market for guys that are gonna be in my shoes down the line. I went to the school of Business for the university of Maine, and I love the business side of it all.”

he is referring to his comparables in the goalie market. No goalie brings in compariables that don't play goalie.

he says "How I can't ruin the goalie market" goalie's compared to each other

Ruin does not mean set the goalie market.

In this context he is talking about not wanting to take a hometown discount so other teams can’t use him as an example with their goalies to get them to take less.

 

[JRull86]

I really think the union and sways agent are pushing for a bigger deal Goalies right or wrong are not valued as high as centres or d men. Union wants to change that an want Sway to be the poster bou

There's probably some validity to this, but that's more of a battle stance to take with UFA Shesterkin than RFA Swayman

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Why can't Swayman use the same thought process as Matthews? Why can't any star player use that sort of thinking. Some guys want security, some want to bet on themselves more.

And why is it a win or lose scenario. The Bruins gets quality netminding for the next 5 years. Swayman can negotiate his next contract sooner. The best contracts are those where both parties win.

Here's the other thing, if the Bruins want to walk away after 5 years and go in a different direction, now they can. They gain flexibility. If they want to trade him in year 5, you'll get more in return than trying to trade him in year 8 at 33 years old.


In your opinion. I don't agree.

Short term can be a win win. Adding even more money on top of the long term version's offer seems like the Bruins only lose from the cap management/asset management aspect of it.

More years could be higher $ although offering more than 8 seems a stretch. Remembering Swayman has only ever been the starter one time and even then it was a heavy emphasis on tandem.

Had he been a natural starter from the beginning there would be no debate, give Swayman what he wants for how long he wants. He has not yet gotten there aside from a single Toronto playoff series.

 

[UncleRico]

I doubt the Bruins were at 8x8 on day 1. Friedman put out they were "in the sixes" on an 8 year deal, but it sounded like it was very early and where they started at. 8x8 could have been on the table for a few weeks now or since the start of camp.

Sounds a lot more like Swayman is still sticking at 9.5x8 to me. I'd think if Swayman had budged some and they were close (under 1M apart) to a deal that Neely holds back on his comment today.

Purely speculation and opinion on my part… but

I think the lowball offer was in the 6s.

I think the 8x8 was offered two weeks ago when all the rumors of a deal being done was being reported and someone in the organization jumped the gun saying there was a deal because they felt swayman would agree.

Obviously didn’t happen and now management looks bad and they are voicing their anger in this press conference.

Purely uninformed speculation though on my part

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Price started 70 games as a 23 year old. That is the definition of franchise talent.

Swayman could get there but he thinks he is worth being the gamble a team takes but no team is going to be comfortable with the risk.

Shorter bridge contract around 5 years, around 6 million.

Or the 8 year 8 million. Both are good and neither is a "discount" so Swayman need not fear hurting future goalies.

While the ego mindset is commendable on the ice it does not fir well with the alleged team culture set in place since 2008 or so.