Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -VI President Cam Speaks: Monty, Donny, & Charlie too!

[Gee Wally]

Mod edit: @smithformeragent

As this situation continues to drag on:

Please keep the conversation pertinent to the topic and avoid making it personal.

Debate about the management of the salary cap and the performance of the general manager fits into the context of the conversation, but we’ll avoid dividing fans into camps like “pro-player” and “team apologist”.

Thanks!

Continue if you must. No flaming!

Click to read more...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Well considering both players were universally considered replacement players with awful contracts I would assume doing nothing in both cases would have been prudent.

So you would have preferred playing Ian Mitchell or Kevin Shattenkirk instead of Peeke?

And Korpisalo was part of a bigger deal. It wasn't like the Bruins wanted him over cheaper alternatives. They had to take him to move Ullmark and get a first-round pick (and Kastelic).

 

[DKH]

This is getting silly. When Swayman signs, (I have little doubt that he will sign) all this nonsense will quickly fade away.

Yup and I think Swayman is ready

I can’t see him going the Nylander route who’s father not only made millions as a player but is on the staff of Lewis Gross sports agency lol

 

[TheReal13Linseman]

Regardless of what was said beforehand, Sweeney knew it would be a risk if he traded Ullmark without having Swayman signed.

Clearly he was willing to take that risk to get something for Ullmark.

Hey, Swayman: Fark you.

To quote Talking Tina: I’m beginning to not like you.

You’re not a $9M goalie, let alone $10M and you might not even be an $8M. Get over yourself.

Don’t care if we trade him at this point.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Hey, Swayman: Fark you.

To quote Talking Tina: I’m beginning to not like you.

You’re not a $9M goalie, let alone $10M and you might not even be an $8M. Get over yourself.

Don’t care if we trade him at this point.

 

[Dellstrom]

This is getting silly. When Swayman signs, (I have little doubt that he will sign) all this nonsense will quickly fade away.

Same stuff a few years back with Pasta. Granted, Pasta signed much earlier in the process than Sway eventually will, but same chatter was going on here and around the league.

It'll end up something that's a bit rich today, but if he continues to grow as he has every year he's been here, will turn into a beautiful deal as the cap goes up. Just secure having your elite forward, D, and G locked up for 7-8 years.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Hey, Swayman: Fark you.

To quote Talking Tina: I’m beginning to not like you.

You’re not a $9M goalie, let alone $10M and you might not even be an $8M. Get over yourself.

Don’t care if we trade him at this point.

From Swayman\Ullmark to Korpisalo, Kastelic and prospects in 5 months. Do wonders for the room.

 

[Absurdity]

Between 2013-2023, 61.9% of players that filed for arbitration and awarded a contract by an arbitrator or during the arbitration process (team and player negotiate a contract before arbitrator makes a ruling) ended up playing no more than 2 seasons with the team they ended up signing with.


I used "*year* Salary Arbitration Tracker NHL" to find results on Google

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Between 2013-2023, 61.9% of players that filed for arbitration and awarded a contract by an arbitrator or during the arbitration process (team and player negotiate a contract before arbitrator makes a ruling) ended up playing no more than 2 seasons with the team they ended up signing with.


I used "*year* Salary Arbitration Tracker NHL" to find results on Google

Interesting. Of course a good percentage of player who fit this criteria are 2 years or less from UFA when they file for arbitratior

It is interesting data, but would actually need to see the control set etc, to really see if that number is concerning

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

Between 2013-2023, 61.9% of players that filed for arbitration and awarded a contract by an arbitrator or during the arbitration process (team and player negotiate a contract before arbitrator makes a ruling) ended up playing no more than 2 seasons with the team they ended up signing with.


I used "*year* Salary Arbitration Tracker NHL" to find results on Google

How does that % change when you look at the contract award value? Like if you looked at the players who signed under or over $3M/yr, is there a difference?

 

[Absurdity]

Interesting. Of course a good percentage of player who fit this criteria are 2 years or less from UFA when they file for arbitratior

It is interesting data, but would actually need to see the control set etc, to really see if that number is concerning

How does that % change when you look at the contract award value? Like if you looked at the players who signed under or over $3M/yr, is there a difference?

Looks like I missed 3 more players ! Added more details below with sources. New percentage (I may have missed some) is 54% (13/24).

At @Bruins4Lifer if we look strictly at those who were awarded more than $3M by an arbitrator or by reaching a deal beforehand (this changed in the CBA in recent years), and ended up playing no more than 2 seasons with the team they signed with, that percentage is 50% (5/10). Again, I may have missed one or two since it's late in the night, early morning, but all of the numbers are below.

2013 - all 21 players who filed reached deals beforehand.
2014 - P.K. Subban signs an 8x9M contract after the arbitration case was heard but before the ruling came down. He was traded to Nashville in 2016.
2015 -
Lance Bouma (Calgary)
2014-15 salary: $775,000
Arbitration date: July 22
Post-arbitration settlement: 3 years, $6.6 million. He was traded during the last year of his contract to Chicago.

Erik Haula (Minnesota)
2014-15 salary: $900,000
Arbitration date: July 31
Post-arbitration settlement: Two years, $2 million. Was a RFA and left exposed in the expansion draft, Vegas claims him.

Craig Smith (Nashville)
2014-15 salary: $2 million
Arbitration date: July 20
Settlement: Five years, $21.25 million. Signs with Boston in 2020

Alex Chiasson (Ottawa)
2014-15 salary: $900,000
Arbitration date: July 23
Arbitration ruling: One year, $1.2 million. Traded to Calgary the year later as a RFA.

Mike Hoffman (Ottawa)
2014-15 salary: $750,000
Arbitration date: July 30
Arbitration ruling: One year, $2 million. Hoffman became a restricted free agent at the end of the 2015-2016 season. On July 27, 2016, he re-signed with the Senators to a four-year, $20.75M deal. Traded to Florida in 2018.

Braden Holtby (Washington)
2014-15 salary: $2 million
Arbitration date: July 23
Post-hearing settlement: 5 years, $30.5 million. Ends up an UFA in 2020 and signs with Vancouver.

Marcus Johansson (Washington)
2014-15 salary: $2.175 million
Arbitration date: July 29
Arbitration ruling: 1 year, $3.75 million. Signs a 3-year $13.75M as a RFA with Washington and then gets traded to New Jersey in 2017.

2016 -
Tyson Barrie (Colorado)
2015-16 salary: $3.2 million
Post-arbitration settlement: The Avalanche signed Barrie to a four-year, $22-million deal. The sides did go through a hearing but reached a longer-term deal instead of waiting on the arbitrator’s ruling. Gets traded to Toronto in 2019 on the last year of his deal.

2017 -
Nate Schmidt (Vegas)
2016-17 salary: $875,000
Arbitration ruling: Two years at $2.25 million. Extends in 2019 for a six-year, $35.8 million extension. Gets traded to Vancouver in 2020.

2018 -
Brett Kulak (Calgary)
2017-18 salary: $650,000
Arbitration award: Following his July 23 hearing, Kulak was awarded a $900,000 salary for 2018-19. Traded to Montreal on October 1st of that year.

Gemel Smith (Dallas)
2017-18 salary: $650,000
Arbitration award: Smith was awarded a one-year, one-way deal worth $720,000. Traded to Boston later that year.

Cody Ceci (Ottawa)
2017-18 salary: $2.8 million
Arbitration award: The arbitrator awarded Ceci a $4.3-million salary for the upcoming season. Traded to Toronto as a RFA the next season.

Jacob Trouba (Winnipeg)
2017-18 salary: $2.812 million
Arbitration award: The arbitrator awarded Trouba a one-year, $5.5 contract on July 22. Traded to the Rangers in 2019 as a RFA.

2019 - Two sources used, here and here
Linus Ullmark (Buffalo)
2018-19 salary: $750,000
Post-arbitration settlement: Sabres and Ullmark went to arbitration on Aug. 2, but agreed to a one-year, $1.325 million contract before the arbitrator made a ruling. He signs with the Bruins as a UFA in 2021.

MacKenzie Weegar (Florida)
2018-19 salary: $900,000
Arbitration award: Weegar was awarded a one-year contract in arbitration on July 25 for 1 year $1.6M. He would get traded to Calgary in the Tkachuk deal in 2022.

Rocco Grimaldi (Nashville)
2018-19 salary: $650,000
Arbitration award: One year, $1 million. Stays with Nashville.

Joel Edmundson (St. Louis)
2018-19 salary: $3,000,000
Arbitration award: One year, $3.1 million. Traded to Carolina right after signing.

Christian Djoos (Washington)
2018-19 salary: $1,300,000
Arbitration award: One-year, $1.25 million. Traded to Anaheim mid-season.

2020 -
Tyler Bertuzzi (Detroit)
2019-20 salary: $2,800,000
Arbitration Status: Arbitrator awards Bertuzzi $3.5M. Bertuzzi spends 2.5 seasons with Detroit before being traded to Boston at the 2022 trade deadline.

2021 - no hearings

2022 -
Yakov Trenin (Nashville)
2021-22 Salary: $1.45M
Arbitration award: 2 years, $1.7MM AAV. Traded to Colorado at the 2023 trade deadline.

2023 -
Jeremy Swayman (Boston)
2022-23 Salary: 3 years, $1,050,000 AAV
Arbitration result: 1 year, $3.475 million

Philipp Kurashev (Chicago)
2022-23 Salary: 1 year, $750,000 AAV
Arbitration result: 2 years, $2.25 million AAV

Ilya Samsonov (Toronto)
Toronto Maple Leafs
2022-23 Salary: 1 year, $1,800,000 AAV
Arbitration result: 1 year, $3.55 million. Toronto let him walk.

 

[Dr Quincy]

The only way they could make a deal for Ullmark was to take Korpisalo back.

Zadorov filled a need. Signing Swayman has nothing to do with signing Zadorov.

So much presupposition there.

1)That they had to trade Ullmark
2) That OTT was the ONLY team they could trade him to.
3) That they had to give in to OTT's demands. Sweeney is ok negotiating and holding the line on Swayman but apparently caved wasily to OTT.

Also "Zadorov filled a need" is hysterical... Who fills a bigger need Zadorov or Swayman?

Finally your contention that signing one has nothing to do with signing another may be correct. But if that's true, that one large signing doesn't affect future signings is true, then people should stop saying that we shouldn't sign Sway to 8m because that means they can't sign others in the future. Either that argument works for Zad's signing too, or it doesn't work for Swayman.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

So you would have preferred playing Ian Mitchell or Kevin Shattenkirk instead of Peeke?

And Korpisalo was part of a bigger deal. It wasn't like the Bruins wanted him over cheaper alternatives. They had to take him to move Ullmark and get a first-round pick (and Kastelic).

No would have acquired Colin Miller for the 3rd or the 4th he went for and would not have traded Ullmark for that package. 26th ov while taking on a terrible contract is not worth dumping my goalie

 

[KillerMillerTime]

No would have acquired Colin Miller for the 3rd or the 4th he went for and would not have traded Ullmark for that package. 26th ov while taking on a terrible contract is not worth dumping my goalie

I said 2 months before the trade that Sweeney will be able to deflect criticism on the trade since people will need to consider what Letourneau becomes. Of course that was based on signing Swayman offseason

 

[DKH]

Hey, Swayman: Fark you.

To quote Talking Tina: I’m beginning to not like you.

You’re not a $9M goalie, let alone $10M and you might not even be an $8M. Get over yourself.

Don’t care if we trade him at this point.

See this is what his agent brought

It’s not just you I was out with friends and they were saying the same thing

If his agent doesn’t use the media and ‘the Bruins offered 4/25 and Whitney goes off they are cheap’….we aren’t getting Rich Keefe’s $10 M AAV report that Swayman is a greedy prick.

Add in his unfortunate comments about arbitration and school taking business classes

This is Boston not Florida or San Jose. People don’t want to hear Mac Jones whine even if he had a reason or Roger Clemens complain about carrying your luggage.

 

[analyser]

I wish this whole f***en issue would get resolved, sign or trade him. Management is not going to cave in to Sway's hefty demands and they are not going to give him a blank check and say fill in the amount.

On the other hand I can see Sway's being insulted with DS's latest probably low ball offer.

Things do not look promising and it has been such a dragged out affair.

 

[HustleB]

See this is what his agent brought

It’s not just you I was out with friends and they were saying the same thing

If his agent doesn’t use the media and ‘the Bruins offered 4/25 and Whitney goes off they are cheap’….we aren’t getting Rich Keefe’s $10 M AAV report that Swayman is a greedy prick.

Add in his unfortunate comments about arbitration and school taking business classes

This is Boston not Florida or San Jose. People don’t want to hear Mac Jones whine even if he had a reason or Roger Clemens complain about carrying your luggage.

Are you suggesting that the Bruins leaked the 10M per year, and your cool with it because "Johnny Did It First Ma!"

If the Bruins are part of the leaks we are seeing then they are as responsible as Swayman's team for the fan sentiment it creates.

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

Just trade him at this point, I like the kid but if an RFA is giving this much trouble it's time for a different player or GM.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Are you suggesting that the Bruins leaked the 10M per year, and your cool with it because "Johnny Did It First Ma!"

If the Bruins are part of the leaks we are seeing then they are as responsible as Swayman's team for the fan sentiment it creates.

Bruins and Swayman are guaranteed to be equal parties in this. No one should let Sweeney play the victim if he tries.

They will resolve this in the end, similar to Pastrnak and every RFA before.

 

[DKH]

Are you suggesting that the Bruins leaked the 10M per year, and your cool with it because "Johnny Did It First Ma!"

If the Bruins are part of the leaks we are seeing then they are as responsible as Swayman's team for the fan sentiment it creates.

Hell yeh

And it worked

 

[BTO]

You can love Swayman and slam him

I think he’s going to be a star but if he wants 9 M AAV (I’m told he doesn’t) he’s a greedy prick

And STFU about arbitration ~ you sound like a whiney freakin bitch

I would sign him 8/64 or 6/50 tonight both exceed Saros who’s every bit as good and has a resume

He’s going to sign and be better for the experience but his agent brought all this on

I’d fire his ass if he represented me - he’s a media whore obvious to anyone who followed the Nylander saga

The Bruins responded with the 10 M AVV using a radio non-hockey talk show host that hit a bullseye and I’m sure caught Swayman off guard since he knows it’s BS

Gross thought he could throw mud while wearing a new suit - sorry dude this ain’t the Greendale CC human beings they are going up against

If you were told that he doesn’t want 9 then what were you told he does want (unironically please, if possible)?

And again, and for the record, we don’t (really) know either the ask or the offer, and we don’t know who it is that’s refusing to budge. Because that determines who’s more at fault here.

For example, if Swayman doesn’t want 9 but wants 8.5 and Sweeney refuses to budge from 6.2, then this whole clusterf*** is on Sweeney. But if Swayman’s ask was 9.5-10 and Sweeney moved up from 6.2 to, say, 8+ and Swayman won’t budge then it’s on Swayman. Or maybe both moved but just not enough.

But until and unless we know the initial ask and offer, and who moved and who didn’t, then we don’t really know who’s to blame. Could be one, could be the other, could be both or could be neither. We just don’t know and are just pulling shit out of our asses. All but DKH, of course, who’s told things.

 

[KrejciMVP]

See this is what his agent brought

It’s not just you I was out with friends and they were saying the same thing

If his agent doesn’t use the media and ‘the Bruins offered 4/25 and Whitney goes off they are cheap’….we aren’t getting Rich Keefe’s $10 M AAV report that Swayman is a greedy prick.

Add in his unfortunate comments about arbitration and school taking business classes

This is Boston not Florida or San Jose. People don’t want to hear Mac Jones whine even if he had a reason or Roger Clemens complain about carrying your luggage.

I think bringing up his business resume instead of just saying he wants to play hockey and help the Bruins sealed his fate with negotiations. Better to not air that out when seeking a big contract

 

[LSCII]

So, do you think they should have spent less and got players inferior to Zadorov, Peeke and Korpisalo? That doesn't really make for a better team, does it?

I guess it all depends on whether you think any of that collective is worth signing. TBH, bottom of the roster spots should be filled on the cheap and with internal options instead of paying premiums in free agency or trade for those slots, imo.

None of those players is what I’d consider a must have. They’re all complimentary depth types. Overpaying those guys but nickel and diming your starting goalie is really really f***ing stupid.

 

[smithformeragent]

What does everyone want to have happen here?

Anyone curious to see this drag out past October 8th?

 

[Scotto74]

What does everyone want to have happen here?

Anyone curious to see this drag out past October 8th?

I want both sides to get their heads out of the asses and get a deal done somewhere in the $7-$7.5M range.

Today

 

[EverettMike]

What does everyone want to have happen here?

Anyone curious to see this drag out past October 8th?

Jeremy Swayman demands a trade which ultimately leads to the firing of Don Sweeney and the hiring of a new general manager with no ties to the organization followed by the Montreal Canadiens organization being relegated to the AHL for all eternity.