Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -V - all still silent

[SwayHeyKid]

He should have fired after the arbitration hearing last year. Regardless of how you feel about the process. It seems Swayman was completely unprepared for what would happen , and that is on his agent.

He knew he would be beat up. Doesn’t mean he had to be ok with it. Maybe he holds grudges. So be it. Swayman paid the price for the cap management the past couple years. Swayman also remember was the odd man out when Tuukka wanted to come back. Everyone can say what they want about Gross and I’m sure it’s warranted but let’s not pretend Bruins management hasn’t been douche canoes either

 

[PlayMakers]

He actually didn't lose anything. The contract was pro rated, meaning he made 10M in the first year. Another way Leafs management pampered the star players

View attachment 909598

Pro-rated means part of the whole, i.e. he did lose money for every day he was out. If his salary was $10m and he sat out a quarter of the season then he was only paid $7.5m.

Now, if he was paid the entire first year as a bonus, then that would not have been pro-rated, bonuses are paid in lump-sums, so he would have gotten all his money.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

He knew he would be beat up. Doesn’t mean he had to be ok with it. Maybe he holds grudges. So be it. Swayman paid the price for the cap management the past couple years. Swayman also remember was the odd man out when Tuukka wanted to come back. Everyone can say what they want about Gross and I’m sure it’s warranted but let’s not pretend Bruins management hasn’t been douche canoes either

“Odd man out” - the young goalie who didn’t require waivers got sent down versus the more experienced goalie who was lights out and would have been claimed in a heartbeat?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

It's amazing to me how many people on this board dismiss or devalue the Bruins' win over the Leafs in last year's playoffs, even though most of us agree Swayman was arguably the biggest reason - can you imagine the reaction on this board now if they would have lost?!?

Swayman has a winning record against Carolina in the PO also (3-2). Wouldn't have been a 7th game against Carolina without Swayman.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

“Odd man out” - the young goalie who didn’t require waivers got sent down versus the more experienced goalie who was lights out and would have been claimed in a heartbeat?

That’s not my point. They felt Rask was a better choice then. What is Rask did play well and Swayman spent the rest of the season in the minors. He’s looking out for number 1, just like you or I would in our careers

 

[EverettMike]

Thought exercise only (aka please don't rehash the RFA vs FA thing, we all know they're different and that's not what I am asking):

If Nikita Zadorov is worth X to the Bruins, what do you think Jeremy Swayman is worth and why?

Also X?
X times 1.5?
X times 2?
More? Less?

 

[KrejciMVP]

Holding out bc you are unable to set the goalie market is a horrible career move

 

[EverettMike]

Holding out bc you are unable to set the goalie market is a horrible career move

Lying about what a player has said is a horrible posting move

 

[Pia8988]

Thought exercise only (aka please don't rehash the RFA vs FA thing, we all know they're different and that's not what I am asking):

If Nikita Zadorov is worth X to the Bruins, what do you think Jeremy Swayman is worth and why?

Also X?
X times 1.5?
X times 2?
More? Less?

One sets fear in his opponents. The other will be traded away in 4 years as a dump

 

[Lobster57]

One sets fear in his opponents. The other will be traded away in 4 years as a dump

who's going to want a 33 year old #6 dman making $5M a year?

 

[PB37]

Thought exercise only (aka please don't rehash the RFA vs FA thing, we all know they're different and that's not what I am asking):

If Nikita Zadorov is worth X to the Bruins, what do you think Jeremy Swayman is worth and why?

Also X?
X times 1.5?
X times 2?
More? Less?

Bruins have been in the market for LHD with size for the past few seasons, so I think it's definitely a check list item for them that they finally have. And while I'm not comparing the two results wise, I think the Bruins see the value in Zadorov in how he has similar attributes as Chara and miss that component in their defensive structure - a huge guy that can physically dominant, intimidate, and hit some booming shots in for goals. How that's quantified on paper, I'm not sure.

With Swayman, there may be some hubris involved in thinking that with elite level coaching and defense first teams, they've been able to turn Rask, Thomas, and Ullmark into Vezina winners ( most Vezina wins in the league since 09 I think ) so they may feel that Swayman is benefiting from the system and is set to do so again with a long term deal.

 

[EverettMike]

Bruins have been in the market for LHD with size for the past few seasons, so I think it's definitely a check list item for them that they finally have. And while I'm not comparing the two results wise, I think the Bruins see the value in Zadorov in how he has similar attributes as Chara and miss that component in their defensive structure - a huge guy that can physically dominant, intimidate, and hit some booming shots in for goals. How that's quantified on paper, I'm not sure.

With Swayman, there may be some hubris involved in thinking that with elite level coaching and defense first teams, they've been able to turn Rask, Thomas, and Ullmark into Vezina winners ( most Vezina wins in the league since 09 I think ) so they may feel that Swayman is benefiting from the system and is set to do so again with a long term deal.

Okay, sure, but what about the question I asked? I'm looking for what people think they are worth to the Bruins in terms of actual dollars. I just think it's an interesting way to think about it.

 

[VanIsle]

Lewis Gross is the agent for Swayman. . .

Lewis Gross NHL Contracts by Agent | Puckpedia

See the active player contracts and client list for Lewis Gross at Sports Professional Management Inc. on PuckPedia.

puckpedia.com

He got $11.5 for Nylander, $6.5 for Krug . . .

Just thought it was kind of interesting and you can search agents by player in the top left. . . .

 

[Eddie Munson]

Okay, sure, but what about the question I asked? I'm looking for what people think they are worth to the Bruins in terms of actual dollars. I just think it's an interesting way to think about it.

Mike, I'd say that it's an impossible thought experiment. You can't just say ignore RFA versus UFA, ignore the leagues valuation on certain positions, ignore age, stats, etc.

If you asked me if Zadarov should make the same amount as Jacob Markstrom for instance, my answer is no. I think Markstrom impacts the game more than Zadarov. But Markstrom is worth X due to the league's valuation on the goalie market versus Zadarov being worth Y because of their valuation of the defenseman market.

Similar thought experiment would be: Hypothetically, the Bruins value Swayman and Pastrnak evenly, who would get a better trade offer at age 25 if they were available? It's Pastrnak. That's why as we talk about positions we need to discuss goalie comps for Swayman because it's more of an apples to apples comparison. Trying to cross positions, eras, and sports always tends to be a fools errand as there are too many variables you can't account for.

So I apreciate what you're trying to accomplish with this but I'm not sure it's doable.

 

[Dr Hook]

Okay, sure, but what about the question I asked? I'm looking for what people think they are worth to the Bruins in terms of actual dollars. I just think it's an interesting way to think about it.

For me that's tough to answer because we have yet to see Zadorov as a Bruin. Zado fills a massive need for the team that for me transcends the standard 5-6 d man role that might suggest he is overpaid. But we will know soon enough if the contract is worthwhile. That said, if Zado is as advertised and fits well here and does what he was signed to do, I don't think Swayman is that much more valuable in dollars. It is kind of apples to oranges in what you are asking for from each player. For me Zado at 5 right now is perfectly fine, and Swayman as a #1 goalie with his skills is good at 6.5-7. Market forces dictate some of that and it's hard to quantify this way, but you are right, it is an interesing way to think about it.

 

[PaulD]

It's amazing to me how many people on this board dismiss or devalue the Bruins' win over the Leafs in last year's playoffs, even though most of us agree Swayman was arguably the biggest reason - can you imagine the reaction on this board now if they would have lost?!?

I'm not diminishing. Bruins won a hard fought if not boring series. Swayman was very good. Pastrnak was the man. Then they went 6 with Panthers.
Swayman was not nearly as good in that round.
He should have signed by now. If he's holding out for Bobrovsky like money he's crazy.
8 mill tops.

 

[Tragedy]

Korpisalo has spent his entire career playing behind terrible Columbus and Ottawa teams.

He has played in the playoffs twice during his nine year career, putting up a .922 sv% across 14 games played.

Maybe he's finally in a situation to put up good numbers behind a strong defensive team with elite goalie coaching.

/end cope

If you ever need to come back to earth on Korpi just watch the 4th goal he gives up in the season opener vs Carolina last season. He tried to reach cross body with his glove and misses the puck on a shot from the blue line instead of just using his blocker. I knew at that moment we were probably in trouble

 

[Therick67]

who's going to want a 33 year old #6 dman making $5M a year?

Donny will have to pony up a first round pick and a prospect...

 

[EverettMike]

Mike, I'd say that it's an impossible thought experiment. You can't just say ignore RFA versus UFA, ignore the leagues valuation on certain positions, ignore age, stats, etc.

If you asked me if Zadarov should make the same amount as Jacob Markstrom for instance, my answer is no. I think Markstrom impacts the game more than Zadarov. But Markstrom is worth X due to the league's valuation on the goalie market versus Zadarov being worth Y because of their valuation of the defenseman market.

Similar thought experiment would be: Hypothetically, the Bruins value Swayman and Pastrnak evenly, who would get a better trade offer at age 25 if they were available? It's Pastrnak. That's why as we talk about positions we need to discuss goalie comps for Swayman because it's more of an apples to apples comparison. Trying to cross positions, eras, and sports always tends to be a fools errand as there are too many variables you can't account for.

So I apreciate what you're trying to accomplish with this but I'm not sure it's doable.

I think in a vacuum Jeremy Swayman is easily worth at least three times what Nikita Zadorov is. Obvioulsy in no way will their contracts reflect it, but I don't think it's even close. I'm actually giving the lowest possible number I can.

See how easy that was?

 

[Seidenbergy]

If you ever need to come back to earth on Korpi just watch the 4th goal he gives up in the season opener vs Carolina last season. He tried to reach cross body with his glove and misses the puck on a shot from the blue line instead of just using his blocker. I knew at that moment we were probably in trouble

The next goalie to never let up a soft goal will be the first.

 

[PlayMakers]

Holding out bc you are unable to set the goalie market is a horrible career move

Quoted because this needs to be repeated.

 

[EverettMike]

Not sure I've ever been so frustrated* by genuinely thoughtful, well-written responses!

*Not really, just academically

 

[EverettMike]

Quoted because this needs to be repeated.

Why do we need to repeat a thoroughly debunked lie?

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Quoted because this needs to be repeated.

Repeated because it has no merit? He's probably holding out because the Bruins haven't offered him a fair deal in his eyes?

I love this place.

Swayman wants 9.5 mil just like McAvoy, "what a loser, guys can't start 60 plus games, what a greedy prick"

Sweeney offers 6.5 mil "OMGGGGSZZZZZZZZ that's not true the Bruins never leak anything"

 

[Dr Hook]

Not sure I've ever been so frustrated* by genuinely thoughtful, well-written responses!

*Not really, just academically

Maybe it's my own tendency to overthink, but I saw you mention above "in a vacuum." If that's what you are really asking, I have to say I don't know what that means in this case. Are you meaning purely based on their technical skill sets compared to their peers in their respective positions? Because if so, I can't argue with Zadorov being worth a 1/3 of Swayman. But then I can't help but think of something like Paul Coffey vs Chris Pronger. How would you do that because all the skill sets are relative to context. Or that isn't what you are asking at all, and I am just engaging in work-avoidant behavior because this is more enjoyable?

Repeated because it has no merit? He's probably holding out because the Bruins haven't offered him a fair deal in his eyes?

I love this place.

Swayman wants 9.5 mil just like McAvoy, "what a loser, guys can't start 60 plus games, what a greedy prick"

Sweeney offers 6.5 mil "OMGGGGSZZZZZZZZ that's not true the Bruins never leak anything"

Genuine question because I am not a part of the pissing match going on here: what number do you believe the Bruins should have started with for Swayman to consider it a "fair offer," and vice-versa?