Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

[Machinehead]

@Amazing Kreiderman

Personally, I think Gorton is a complete moron and I may be alone in thinking this but this retool/ rebuild BS is completely unwarranted IMO.

He had one of the best cores in the NHL and instead of supplementing that core he “Retooled”.

After the “Retool” failed miserably, he decided to blow it up.

This clown is his own worst enemy.

He did absolutely nothing when it’s been more than obvious that the team needs a new coach, system and voice in the room.

Instead, he trades the teams #1C/ #2D without an adequate replacement and still thinks he’s gonna go for it.

OK..You want to trade Step and G because they lost a step?
Fine, but then he goes and signs Shattenkirk and Smith to deals to a team that can’t hold onto leads.

It’s not like they had a problem with offense.

He’s then put players in positions/roles that are way over their head and that they couldn’t ever possibly be successful in.

So now we’re beyond the wrong system and wrong personnel and his retool failing miserably, he decides let’s blow it up.

He sells the farm and then gets mediocre talent in return all while not getting a single “above average” roster ready player back in trades.

Names for Miller?

Are you kidding me??

If I was Miller and got jerked around by AV half as much as he did I’d have an attitude too, all while still improving his points totals each year.
Even Lundqvist has made public remarks about structure which is clearly a shot at AV.

OK but let’s trade him for beans too.

All of this could’ve been avoided had he did what any other GM would’ve done and that’s supplement your roster if they’re successful.

If you need a change or you’re looking to get younger, fine, replace each piece as needed and maintain a winning culture on the ice and in the locker room.

This isn’t a ****ing expansion team!

This clown has made mistake after mistake and then blew it up.
On top of that, the team has progressively gotten worse year after year since he’s taken over.

Wrong coach, wrong personnel, WRONG GM!

This prick is going to set this team back years and much like all his other failed moves, it’s beyond predictable.

I can hardly wait to see how this turns out...

Rant over

Got through the whole thing without once mentioning Zibanejad. I'm impressed.

 

[NYR]

Got through the whole thing without once mentioning Zibanejad. I'm impressed.

Lol..I said it a thousand times.
It's not Zib.
He was put in a position he doesn't belong in.
Plain and simple..

 

[NYR]

PS.. To think this guy is actually smug enough to think he can look at what Shanahan and Lamoriello are doing in Toronto and say..Errr, Yeah..We're gonna do that!
What a fkn clown..

 

[haveandare]

PS.. To think this guy is actually smug enough to think he can look at what Shanahan and Lamoriello are doing in Toronto and say..Errr, Yeah..We're gonna do that!
What a fkn clown..

I think he’s fine and you’re being extremely reactionary to a situation that isn’t even close to being done yet.

We never had one of the best cores in the NHL imo. And Toronto hasn’t accomplished a single thing yet despite being handed Matthews based on dumb luck.

 

[Miamipuck]

I put this part in the UDFA thread, it probably belongs here:

I am honestly not sure how I feel about Clark and Gorton. They have been both good and bad. The one thing I will say is they were saddled with a dearth of picks and now they have a wealth of them. I most certainly prefer the latter.

Gorton was part of the management team that hamstrung the future and saddled us with this rebuild. I would love to place the blame on Sather as that would help me sleep better at night as a Rangers fan but I don't think that would be accurate.

So basically I am in wait and see mode watching how Gorton digs himself out of this mess that was partially his fault, to what extent I am not sure.. Like most I think he started out the TDL really well but I am not so sure of the McD trade. I highly doubt he didn't take the best offer but was it really the right thing to do if that's the case. That trade had a lot of moving parts and will take years to accurately critique.

 

[Irishguy42]

I put this part in the UDFA thread, it probably belongs here:

I am honestly not sure how I feel about Clark and Gorton. They have been both good and bad. The one thing I will say is they were saddled with a dearth of picks and now they have a wealth of them. I most certainly prefer the latter.

Every team makes good and bad moves. There is no GM/team management that only makes good moves.

With Gorton and Clark, I feel like in their respective positions, they have done more good than bad. This offseason will be huge for both of them, considering that we're now officially headed into a rebuild.

 

[Miamipuck]

Every team makes good and bad moves. There is no GM/team management that only makes good moves.

With Gorton and Clark, I feel like in their respective positions, they have done more good than bad. This offseason will be huge for both of them, considering that we're now officially headed into a rebuild.

Of course man, my central point was, I just didn't know how much of this season and the prior state of the Rangers is/was his own making. We all like to blame a lot of it on Sather. So I am taking a tempered view of Gorton. He was part of breaking it, can he fix it?

 

[Rongomania]

Of course man, my central point was, I just didn't know how much of this season and the prior state of the Rangers is/was his own making. We all like to blame a lot of it on Sather. So I am taking a tempered view of Gorton. He was part of breaking it, can he fix it?

If we don’t win top three or so, he’s going to go balls-to-the-wall at that draft table. In either one of these two scenarios, we’re more than likely getting two extremely talented kids - at least.

He has so much prep time, time to send all of our scouts all over the world - double the normal amount. I like what he’s doing.

Can you imagine if we got rid of McD at next years deadline.... yikes....

Miller - what if something serious was going on behind the scenes here and that came out in the papers and destroyed his value?

I am fine with what we got, as the pieces he acquired this deadline will be the supporting cast and maybe more of our new, high draft picks.

I’m into it. The core we had did not need to be supplemented, we had many swings and we missed, not a karlsson or a Tavares in the world was making this team win.

This is my favorite team in all of sports, my only team which I have never watched win a championship as an adult man (31yrs).

This s*** all truly breaks my heart to say, but with just one TDL, I have serious optimism going into the 28th and beyond.

Let’s f***ing do this.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I put this part in the UDFA thread, it probably belongs here:

I am honestly not sure how I feel about Clark and Gorton. They have been both good and bad. The one thing I will say is they were saddled with a dearth of picks and now they have a wealth of them. I most certainly prefer the latter.

Gorton was part of the management team that hamstrung the future and saddled us with this rebuild. I would love to place the blame on Sather as that would help me sleep better at night as a Rangers fan but I don't think that would be accurate.

So basically I am in wait and see mode watching how Gorton digs himself out of this mess that was partially his fault, to what extent I am not sure.. Like most I think he started out the TDL really well but I am not so sure of the McD trade. I highly doubt he didn't take the best offer but was it really the right thing to do if that's the case. That trade had a lot of moving parts and will take years to accurately critique.

Although that is true, I don't think it is fair to place any of the blame on him. Sather was in charge as both the GM and President. I'm guessing Gorton's options were "follow me until I retire and the job is yours or get out of the way".

 

[GordonGecko]

Personally, I think Gorton is a complete moron
...
This clown has made mistake after mistake and then blew it up.
...
can hardly wait to see how this turns out...

And the Garth Snows / Marc Bergevins / Peter Chiarellis are geniuses? Never ceases to amaze me how myopic some people are

I would bet real money that Gorton wins NHL GM of the year within the next 5 seasons

 

[NYR]

I think he’s fine and you’re being extremely reactionary to a situation that isn’t even close to being done yet.

We never had one of the best cores in the NHL imo. And Toronto hasn’t accomplished a single thing yet despite being handed Matthews based on dumb luck.

My reaction is 3 years in the making but I'm going to try and be more patient until the draft because that's going to dictate where things are heading.
In which case I'm not as confident as you seem to be that he makes the right picks/ trades.
I can't find the article but JG, when asked about the rebuild, he referred to Toronto being a model of how he'd like to do things.
You're right about things not even remotely close to being done but I have news to those that are claiming things are going be turned around in 2 years.
This is a 5 year plan IMO.
Unless of course he wants to throw stupid money at UFA's like the NYR of old.
I completely disagree about the core.
If you aren't happy with that core and what they've accomplished then I have a hard time believing you will be happy with any other.

 

[NYR]

And the Garth Snows / Marc Bergevins / Peter Chiarellis are geniuses? Never ceases to amaze me how myopic some people are

I would bet real money that Gorton wins NHL GM of the year within the next 5 seasons

Myopic?

I'm just not oblivious as to the actual reality that's going on around me.

What do those GM's have to do with what's going on in the NYR orginization?

GM of the year?

In what world?

What would give you any inclination that he's ever done anything that, that would even be relevant?

That is the difference between reality and pure fantasy.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm in the wait and see mode, but I have to agree with SOME of the stuff the naysayers are saying.

Mostly, I too believe they tried to rebuild on the fly and failed. In that process they made some poor player evaluations in terms of who could play in what roles. I am having trouble figuring out who they have been and still are including in the choices they make, AV, Sather or is this all Gorton?

I think it's possible they(whoever they are) realized they were forever going to be a dreaded middle team after the rebuild on the fly plan looked to be going poorly and tried to do something proactive at the deadline, but if so I don't think they went far enough to avoid that outcome. I mean they pretty much are still ending this season in the dreaded middle.

What they do from here, the wait and see part, I don't know, that is why teams do not want to be in the middle to begin with but they have still have a plethora of opportunities to be creative.

 

[haveandare]

My reaction is 3 years in the making but I'm going to try and be more patient until the draft because that's going to dictate where things are heading.
In which case I'm not as confident as you seem to be that he makes the right picks/ trades.
I can't find the article but JG, when asked about the rebuild, he referred to Toronto being a model of how he'd like to do things.
You're right about things not even remotely close to being done but I have news to those that are claiming things are going be turned around in 2 years.
This is a 5 year plan IMO.
Unless of course he wants to throw stupid money at UFA's like the NYR of old.
I completely disagree about the core.
If you aren't happy with that core and what they've accomplished then I have a hard time believing you will be happy with any other.

Toronto isn’t a success until they succeed - they’ve done next to nothing when it counts so far, and that’s with the luck of getting 1OA and getting it in a year with a very clear and high level player in that spot.

And I’m very happy with what that core accomplished because they were never a truly top a core imo. They made it work and had a lot of success anyway which is great and which I was very happy to watch. But think about it, no dependable goal scorer who could be counted on for 30 goals, no clear 1C, only a year or two of a clear two way 1D - that’s not one of the best cores in the league. They had a lot of depth at times and had very solid goaltending, but they weren’t a top core on paper imo.

 

[NYR]

Toronto isn’t a success until they succeed - they’ve done next to nothing when it counts so far, and that’s with the luck of getting 1OA and getting it in a year with a very clear and high level player in that spot.

I agree 100% on Toronto.
I’m just repeating what JG said when asked about the rebuild and a possible turn around.
His reply, not mine:

“If you look at what Toronto has done there’s no reason to think we can’t turn this around fairly quickly?

And I’m very happy with what that core accomplished because they were never a truly top a core imo. They made it work and had a lot of success anyway which is great and which I was very happy to watch. But think about it, no dependable goal scorer who could be counted on for 30 goals, no clear 1C, only a year or two of a clear two way 1D - that’s not one of the best cores in the league. They had a lot of depth at times and had very solid goaltending, but they weren’t a top core on paper imo.

Who's job is it to bring in/supplement/replace what's needed??

So what happens if this rebuild fails in 2 years?

Is he going to supplement or replace what's needed or is he just going to sell the farm and start all over again??

Same difference IMO..

 

[NYR]

I'm in the wait and see mode, but I have to agree with SOME of the stuff the naysayers are saying.

Mostly, I too believe they tried to rebuild on the fly and failed. In that process they made some poor player evaluations in terms of who could play in what roles. I am having trouble figuring out who they have been and still are including in the choices they make, AV, Sather or is this all Gorton?

I think it's possible they(whoever they are) realized they were forever going to be a dreaded middle team after the rebuild on the fly plan looked to be going poorly and tried to do something proactive at the deadline, but if so I don't think they went far enough to avoid that outcome. I mean they pretty much are still ending this season in the dreaded middle.

What they do from here, the wait and see part, I don't know, that is why teams do not want to be in the middle to begin with but they have still have a plethora of opportunities to be creative.

Bingo!
And not to sound like a know it all but I called this a bubble team since last summer.
It was beyond predictable..

 

[Off Sides]

Bingo!
And not to sound like a know it all but I called this a bubble team since last summer.
It was beyond predictable..

I too said the same in the before the season started prediction thread, but I was not saying they should try to improve it, my take was if they were going to move Stepan for futures, buy out Girardi why stop there, and then why add Shattenkirk and such, the moves conflicted with one another regardless if they were being made towards either rebuilding or competing.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I have a lot of faith in Gorton.

But, all of it would cease to exist if AV is here by the draft.

 

[NYR]

I too said the same in the before the season started prediction thread, but I was not saying they should try to improve it, my take was if they were going to move Stepan for futures, buy out Girardi why stop there, and then why add Shattenkirk and such, the moves conflicted with one another regardless if they were being made towards either rebuilding or competing.

This was setup for failure before it even began.
I got into all sorts of shit with the stat guys.
It was pretty comical lol

 

[True Blue]

He had one of the best cores in the NHL and instead of supplementing that core he “Retooled”.

After the “Retool” failed miserably, he decided to blow it up.

This core was winning absolutely nothing . Gorton will be judged on the trades and the draft results. Not a fan of loosing Miller, but he did the right thing on the trades

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

What gives me faith in Gorton for now is he acknowledged 2 things, which are almost never acknowledged let alone acted upon in Rangerworld:

1. That the current core of the team wasn't cutting it like they were in 2014/2015 and needed a big shake up

2. That the cupboard was bare after years of chasing the title and needed to be addressed immediately

Where he guides the team from here on out will be the ultimate judgment on his job performance - but if you've been a Ranger fan long enough, and you've been fed lines that the Rangers were just a player or two away no matter the actual circumstances, you have to like a GM who finally confronted stared reality in the face and acted upon it.

 

[True Blue]

I too said the same in the before the season started prediction thread, but I was not saying they should try to improve it, my take was if they were going to move Stepan for futures, buy out Girardi why stop there, and then why add Shattenkirk and such, the moves conflicted with one another regardless if they were being made towards either rebuilding or competing.

Let's call a spade a spade here. Management made the wrong call. The belief was that what they had would make for a playoff contender. Which is why the signings of Smith and Shattenkirk occurred. Now who is to blame for the wrong decisions? That is all speculation. I believe that all share in it. AV was just extended. Sather likes his pond hockey. AV stated his case about the signings that he needs to improve the team. Sather signed off. Gorton made them. Who was the bigger influence? That we do not know.

What we do know however, was that AV was not in favor of the tear down. In that aspect, I believe that Gorton won Sather over. Sather signed off. Gorton made the moves. Now there is no going back. Gorton will be judged by his trades, his drafting and what he does in the off season.

We have a lot of speculation. This will take a few years to fairly judge.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I too said the same in the before the season started prediction thread, but I was not saying they should try to improve it, my take was if they were going to move Stepan for futures, buy out Girardi why stop there, and then why add Shattenkirk and such, the moves conflicted with one another regardless if they were being made towards either rebuilding or competing.

You missed the ‘rebuild on the fly’ rhetoric? Shattenkirk was part of the idea that the Rangers could turn over the roster and still be competitive.

And, frankly, even the trade off at the deadline really wasn’t straying that far from that philosophy. They dealt the UFAs and sold early on McDonagh (like they did with Brassard and Stepan). Miller got dealt because they 1) didn’t want pay his coming price tag and 2) didn’t feel comfortable with him in a young locker room. The McDonagh price was market value. Gorton likely undersold on Miller.

 

[Thirty One]

Myopic?

It means short-sighted.

 

[haveandare]

I agree 100% on Toronto.
I’m just repeating what JG said when asked about the rebuild and a possible turn around.
His reply, not mine:

“If you look at what Toronto has done there’s no reason to think we can’t turn this around fairly quickly?



Who's job is it to bring in/supplement/replace what's needed??

So what happens if this rebuild fails in 2 years?

Is he going to supplement or replace what's needed or is he just going to sell the farm and start all over again??

Same difference IMO..

A 1C and 1D aren't pieces you bring in to "supplement" a team. They are and should be absolutely foundational pieces. We didn't have them. The guys we had who were playing in those spots passably for the most part, Stepan and McD, have faded significantly from their peaks when they were briefly and arguably that level of player. Where do you think Gorton would go out and just pick up a 1C and 1D? That's not possible, hence the position we're in.

I don't think this rebuild will be a success or failure in as little as 2 years, neither do you according to your own comment a few posts ago. If we have the core pieces in place you need to have a top team and complimentary pieces are missing, he'll likely grab those kinds of pieces. If the necessary foundational pieces are still missing, it'll depend on who is out there and available for what.