Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Absolutely. He is dealing with a salary cap hell cap situation that Sather left behind. He is dealing with the worst farm system in the NHL, also largely due to what Sather left behind. And he is dealing with contracts that are all but impossible to move. And if bought out, create a painful dead cap space. Also left behind by Sather.

Look, I like to kill Sather as much as the next guy—probably more, actually. But if I can put my distaste for Sather aside, I can view those moves as moves most GMs who feel they're close make to put the team over the top.

Like you, I do not believe that he should be fired. But he does need to be judged by what happens over the next several years. And giving AV his extension this past year was just stupid.

Of course he should. I was reacting to any thought that he is on short leash or somehow has had ample time to right the ship.

You and I don't agree on the coach. But the only way I fire the coach is if sizable player changes are made, too.

 

[True Blue]

But the only way I fire the coach is if sizable player changes are made, too.

Agreed. Right now the team is build to play AV's East West, passive aggressive game. The team needs an attitude adjustment in personnel. Which would go counter to what AV wants. Which means that next year, we are more than likely at looking at more of the same.

 

[offdacrossbar]

didn't do enough with this roster before the deadline.

smith was the only addition to the roster. didn't address the pp point nor add anyone who could hit the water from the beach.

too much belief in this aging group. they weren't good enough nor was the coach able to utilize them properly.

AV needs to go.

younger, better, faster, cheaper

 

[GordonGecko]

Gorton did pretty good at the deadline with Smith, now lets see if he can sign him to a reasonable deal. There was nothing he could have done at the deadline to fix the problems that befell the Rangers against Ottawa, which IMO were mostly coaching based.

He can really earn his keep by moving / buying out Staal & Girardi

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Agreed. Right now the team is build to play AV's East West, passive aggressive game. The team needs an attitude adjustment in personnel. Which would go counter to what AV wants. Which means that next year, we are more than likely at looking at more of the same.

My point is on a higher level. The teams needs to be changed. It can't be a fire the coach (which I don't think they will do) and then go at it again thing. The core is now stale. Mix it up. And that, to me, means everyone is available.

 

[Ail]

Doesn't this fall in the "easier said than done" category?

Yes but he absolutely has to find a way and if game 1 comes around with both of them on the opening night roster, and god forbid, Tanner re-inked, he failed.

If he can only buyout 1 guy, and does then maybe I buy into the Girardi and Staal are unmovable stuff, but even that is stretching it. AV thinks these guys are still 20 minutes a night in crucial situation defensemen. I sincerely doubt he's the only one and I refuse to believe there is not a deal out there for one, or both of these guys. Even if it does come down to offloading them on a young inexperienced team like Vegas will be, and paying a pick or middle-tier prospect to do it. Get creative and find a way to move them.

Not moving one or both of them is unacceptable.

 

[Inferno]

i have not really seen much from Galchenyuk that would make me want to acquire him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

i have not really seen much from Galchenyuk that would make me want to acquire him.

He has a 30 goal season in his pocket and put up 44 in 61 this year.

If the Habs are that desperate for a C, I'd send Stepan there in an instant and try to drag a pretty high pick out of them as well.

 

[silverfish]

i have not really seen much from Galchenyuk that would make me want to acquire him.

It's honestly amazing that the people bashing Stepan want to trade him for Galchenyuk. These "eye-test" truthers are looking at Galch's age and slash-stats and nothing else. Watch the game, nerds.

If Galchenyuk isn't scoring, he's hurting you because he's not great defensively. He can't PK.

If Stepan isn't scoring, he's still driving play for you in all three zones, and playing in all situations.

I can't say enough times how people need to chill the **** out, and stop using this 12 game sample size to make ridiculous, preposterous, roster moves.

Y'all need to chhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllll.

 

[Bluenote13]

The core built by his predecessor had their run and he's now putting his stamp on things. Personally, I think he's in a good spot. There's much less pressure on him than Stars, Panthers, Jets, Canes, Habs, Wild, Blues and possibly Ducks and Cap. There are also very green GMs on Avs and now Kings. He should use this to his advantage. Lot of desperate GMs out there, and desperate GMs make desperate moves (Gomez for McD? Forsberg for Erat?). Combine that with an upcoming expansion draft, and it creates a LOT of opportunity.

I think he can retool this team right under the league's nose.

Two 'desperate moves' examples in almost a decade? Not very convincing....

GM's don't panic with trades, they panic when it comes to free agency.

And giving AV his extension this past year was just stupid.

It shows that management is on the same page with the coach. There's always this hearsay of management not being on board with the coaches moves, yet he was resigned, they obviously like what he's done overall.

didn't do enough with this roster before the deadline.

smith was the only addition to the roster. didn't address the pp point nor add anyone who could hit the water from the beach.

too much belief in this aging group. they weren't good enough nor was the coach able to utilize them properly.

AV needs to go.

younger, better, faster, cheaper

Not too many teams that don't want to get younger, 'better', faster, cheaper. Unless your Edmonton who scraped the bottom and collected young guys for a decade, your always looking to do this to your club.

Brendan Smith WAS a nice player for us, but was he worth throwing away two more future assets to make it to the 2nd round? Oh right, he's going to resign here.....


Gorton has done an okay job giving what he was handed. But make no mistake, his fingerprints are on this team going back as assistant GM, lets not act like he wasn't responsible for some of what was here when he was handed the job. He needs to start putting a bigger stamp on things, be outfront instead of behind the curtains ala Sather, who hid behind the scenes and went on hunting and fishing trips to banff while smoking a thousand cigars. Talk about a fat cat

 

[xsniper11x]

Can only use the data that is available, and based on that (admittedly limited set of) data during his time in Boston and NY, Gorton has shown he is an excellent GM. Almost every single move he has made during those periods has shown an ability to shop for value, or acquire a talent that was being underutilized (Smith, Grabner, Zibby, Rask). Not to mention the ability to attract UDFAs and foreign talent.

The jury is obviously still out at such an early stage of his career, but there is a lot of reason to have faith.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's honestly amazing that the people bashing Stepan want to trade him for Galchenyuk. These "eye-test" truthers are looking at Galch's age and slash-stats and nothing else. Watch the game, nerds.

If Galchenyuk isn't scoring, he's hurting you because he's not great defensively. He can't PK.

If Stepan isn't scoring, he's still driving play for you in all three zones, and playing in all situations.

I can't say enough times how people need to chill the **** out, and stop using this 12 game sample size to make ridiculous, preposterous, roster moves.

Y'all need to chhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllll.

He's younger, bigger, faster, doesn't suck at the PP and will be better than he has been once he gets out of Montreal (no matter where that is.)

Theres also the fact that his best hockey has still yet to come. Stepan is a steddy eddy and I don't expect him to fall off a cliff anytime soon, but we know what we get from him.

It hasn't been good enough. At the very least, it would be wise to explore what he could return in a trade.

I'd rather it be for another player, preferably a D, but they could do much, much worse than Galchenyuk. I don't really see how its any different than the Brass for Zibanejad trade except Galchenyuk has put up a 30 goal season and would be younger at the time of acquisition.

 

[xsniper11x]

Bluenote, I provided two. That doesn't mean there have been only two. Seguin and Spezza were traded for very little, Silfverberg was traded for Ryan. Turris was traded for a bag of pucks. There are plenty of examples of these that I'm sure posters smarter than myself could list all day.

 

[JimmyG89]

Yes but he absolutely has to find a way and if game 1 comes around with both of them on the opening night roster, and god forbid, Tanner re-inked, he failed.

If he can only buyout 1 guy, and does then maybe I buy into the Girardi and Staal are unmovable stuff, but even that is stretching it. AV thinks these guys are still 20 minutes a night in crucial situation defensemen. I sincerely doubt he's the only one and I refuse to believe there is not a deal out there for one, or both of these guys. Even if it does come down to offloading them on a young inexperienced team like Vegas will be, and paying a pick or middle-tier prospect to do it. Get creative and find a way to move them.

Not moving one or both of them is unacceptable.

I believe this is more possible this time around. We have more assets a year later in the system than we did last year. We also have more viable replacements available. With the signings and development of others (Skjei, Graves), it's much more possible.

More prospects, prospects also a year further into development. It's possible to get a trade done if they have to add something to it.

If they didn't want to buyout Girardi last season because it would have been too long, it won't happen to Staal. He'd have to be the one traded.

Gorton can get creative and have it done, all while keeping the forward group in tact (Although I want Hayes gone to protect Lindberg).

 

[CHGoalie27]

I don't think the team should blow up, had they not let certain players just walk in on net and stopped throwing checks every chance they could, we would have swept this team. We completely had in hand and blew 3 games and half the team is either hurt or just didn't even show up yesterday.

Shame on anyone blaming our goaltender.

I'm all for minor tweaks, but don't do anything drastic.

 

[silverfish]

He's younger, bigger, faster, doesn't suck at the PP and will be better than he has been once he gets out of Montreal (no matter where that is.)

Theres also the fact that his best hockey has still yet to come. Stepan is a steddy eddy and I don't expect him to fall off a cliff anytime soon, but we know what we get from him.

It hasn't been good enough. At the very least, it would be wise to explore what he could return in a trade.

I'd rather it be for another player, preferably a D, but they could do much, much worse than Galchenyuk. I don't really see how its any different than the Brass for Zibanejad trade except Galchenyuk has put up a 30 goal season and would be younger at the time of acquisition.

"We know what we get from him"

Yeah. 55 points. Successful play in all three zones. Plays in all game strengths and situations. Drives possession for our team.

Consider me against trading that player in a swap for a worse (albeit younger) player.

You don't make decisions like this based off of 12 games.

 

[Ail]

"We know what we get from him"

Yeah. 55 points. Successful play in all three zones. Plays in all game strengths and situations. Drives possession for our team.

Consider me against trading that player in a swap for a worse (albeit younger) player.

You don't make decisions like this based off of 12 games.

I wouldn't trade Stepan for him, but I would trade Hayes for him. UNDOUBTEDLY.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

"We know what we get from him"

Yeah. 55 points. Successful play in all three zones. Plays in all game strengths and situations. Drives possession for our team.

Consider me against trading that player in a swap for a worse (albeit younger) player.

You don't make decisions like this based off of 12 games.

It's not a decision based off the last 12 games.

It's one based off of the last 2 seasons.

He is far from the biggest issue with this team (Staal, G, AV) but they haven't gotten it done with him at C. Those legs which are already slow are going to get even slower from here on out, I'd rather roll the dice with the currently "worse" player who projects to be better in the near future.

This isn't an inditement on Stepan, I don't want to just give him away, but you're underselling what Galchenyuk has done, he's the more talented player and I'm confident that the gap in their offensive game will be big enough to offset all the other things that Stepan does well (and AG is a young player, it's not like can't or won't improve in these areas. We went through the same thing last summer with Brass/Zibanejad.)

But again, I'd move him or Zucc for a D rather than another F. Forwards are an easier hole to fill.

 

[Ghost of jas]

"We know what we get from him"

Yeah. 55 points. Successful play in all three zones. Plays in all game strengths and situations. Drives possession for our team.

Consider me against trading that player in a swap for a worse (albeit younger) player.

You don't make decisions like this based off of 12 games.

Yes, Stepan is the better player right now, but will that be the case a year from now? Based on your argument, Gorton shouldn't have traded Brass for Zib. Looking at that deal a year later, IMO, he made the right choice. That's why you make that kind of deal.

 

[silverfish]

Yes, Stepan is the better player right now, but will that be the case a year from now? Based on your argument, Gorton shouldn't have traded Brass for Zib. Looking at that deal a year later, IMO, he made the right choice. That's why you make that kind of deal.

Except Brassard was 28 about to be 29 when we traded him for a 23 year-old.

This is a 26 going to be 27 year old for a 23 year old.

I also believe that Stepan > Brassard, and Zibanejad > Galchenyuk.

So while, yes, these are comparable deals as it's the older center for the younger center, it's not the right deal.

 

[Bluenote13]

Bluenote, I provided two. That doesn't mean there have been only two. Seguin and Spezza were traded for very little, Silfverberg was traded for Ryan. Turris was traded for a bag of pucks. There are plenty of examples of these that I'm sure posters smarter than myself could list all day.

I don't agree that those players were dealt for 'very little', and the ones that were like Seguin were because of disciplinary problem. Silverberg for Ryan, no steal there. Turris was an under performing prospect traded for another under performing prospect, by an incompetent management in AZ.

You also have to have assets to trade that teams want, also have to get lucky with timing and who's available.

I would love to see a 'list all day' of steals this past decade, I just don't think that exists.

 

[CHGoalie27]

...and after what we just saw a couple weeks ago, the only MTL Canadian players we really need to discuss are Gallagher and Radulov.

 

[True Blue]

My point is on a higher level. The teams needs to be changed. It can't be a fire the coach (which I don't think they will do) and then go at it again thing. The core is now stale. Mix it up. And that, to me, means everyone is available.

Save for a few players, I would agree. I still do not believe in trading Krieder, Miller or Hayes (whom a new coach could do something with possibly). I would add Vesey to the equation.

 

[True Blue]

It shows that management is on the same page with the coach. There's always this hearsay of management not being on board with the coaches moves, yet he was resigned, they obviously like what he's done overall.

I do not disagree. Since we both agree that AV is not going anywhere, the question becomes how does management and AV adapt to what is clearly not working on the ice? Can they?

 

[JimmyG89]

Except Brassard was 28 about to be 29 when we traded him for a 23 year-old.

This is a 26 going to be 27 year old for a 23 year old.

I also believe that Stepan > Brassard, and Zibanejad > Galchenyuk.

So while, yes, these are comparable deals as it's the older center for the younger center, it's not the right deal.

Agreed. They would need to ask for something bigger for Stepan. I'd want a top pairing D for him.

Still would rather move Hayes for a RHD with top 4 potential. Protect Lindberg at that point. He's you're 3C next season.