Player Discussion Jay Beagle

[Lindgren]

he is 32. he will turn 33 at the beginning of the season but he won't turn 37 until after his contract ends.

Ah, I see. My math problem again. So the poster agrees that he's likely to be playing for the Canucks through the last year of his contract. That'll be good.

 

[alternate]

I don't agree with the mindset that one defensively competent center is adequate. For that reason I like this signing, despite it being a year or two too long. I mean even when we had Malhotra getting 70+% defensive zone starts (or whatever it was) we still had Kesler who was near-Selke level + Burrows who was one of the top defensive wingers in the league. Yes Manny freed up Kesler so he didn't have to take the heavy matchups, but we still had multiple defensively competent options.

Compare that to last season, where our 2nd best option was Bo. Bo was our best offensive center and playing with our best offensive weapon. Bo is also not a great defensive player (improving every season but not even on Sutter's level yet, never mind prime Kesler or Manny). Going into the offseason I felt adding another bottom 6 center to *share* the heavy lifting with Sutter was a priority. Leaving contracts out of the equation Beagle was one of the better options available. Contract isn't great, but he should help stabilize play in our zone.

I also don't think this means Sutter will now be deployed as an offensive player. They complement each other re: handedness so they'll probably see DZ starts depending on which side the faceoffs are on. Sure Benning was spit balling about possibly Sutter seeing more offensive zone starts, but he also said that would be Green's call, and Green used Sutter correctly imo last season. Simply having another good option will likely mean Sutter will see less defensive starts, and this team needs him to get back up around 20 goals like he typically does so tjat should help. But imo it doesn't mean Sutter is no longer needed for match ups or defensive starts.

Bottom line, I don't agree at all that this signing makes Sutter redundant, but rather better rounds out the bottom half of the roster to let the youth focus on offense.

 

[arttk]

I don't agree with the mindset that one defensively competent center is adequate. For that reason I like this signing, despite it being a year or two too long. I mean even when we had Malhotra getting 70+% defensive zone starts (or whatever it was) we still had Kesler who was near-Selke level + Burrows who was one of the top defensive wingers in the league. Yes Manny freed up Kesler so he didn't have to take the heavy matchups, but we still had multiple defensively competent options.

Compare that to last season, where our 2nd best option was Bo. Bo was our best offensive center and playing with our best offensive weapon. Bo is also not a great defensive player (improving every season but not even on Sutter's level yet, never mind prime Kesler or Manny). Going into the offseason I felt adding another bottom 6 center to *share* the heavy lifting with Sutter was a priority. Leaving contracts out of the equation Beagle was one of the better options available. Contract isn't great, but he should help stabilize play in our zone.

I also don't think this means Sutter will now be deployed as an offensive player. They complement each other re: handedness so they'll probably see DZ starts depending on which side the faceoffs are on. Sure Benning was spit balling about possibly Sutter seeing more offensive zone starts, but he also said that would be Green's call, and Green used Sutter correctly imo last season. Simply having another good option will likely mean Sutter will see less defensive starts, and this team needs him to get back up around 20 goals like he typically does so tjat should help. But imo it doesn't mean Sutter is no longer needed for match ups or defensive starts.

Bottom line, I don't agree at all that this signing makes Sutter redundant, but rather better rounds out the bottom half of the roster to let the youth focus on offense.

Uhhh they signed Schaller to be the 4th line C and Beagle as the 3rd line C. Sutter is going to be the 2nd line C, like it or not.

 

[Lindgren]

I don't agree with the mindset that one defensively competent center is adequate. For that reason I like this signing, despite it being a year or two too long. I mean even when we had Malhotra getting 70+% defensive zone starts (or whatever it was) we still had Kesler who was near-Selke level + Burrows who was one of the top defensive wingers in the league. Yes Manny freed up Kesler so he didn't have to take the heavy matchups, but we still had multiple defensively competent options.

Compare that to last season, where our 2nd best option was Bo. Bo was our best offensive center and playing with our best offensive weapon. Bo is also not a great defensive player (improving every season but not even on Sutter's level yet, never mind prime Kesler or Manny). Going into the offseason I felt adding another bottom 6 center to *share* the heavy lifting with Sutter was a priority. Leaving contracts out of the equation Beagle was one of the better options available. Contract isn't great, but he should help stabilize play in our zone.

I also don't think this means Sutter will now be deployed as an offensive player. They complement each other re: handedness so they'll probably see DZ starts depending on which side the faceoffs are on. Sure Benning was spit balling about possibly Sutter seeing more offensive zone starts, but he also said that would be Green's call, and Green used Sutter correctly imo last season. Simply having another good option will likely mean Sutter will see less defensive starts, and this team needs him to get back up around 20 goals like he typically does so tjat should help. But imo it doesn't mean Sutter is no longer needed for match ups or defensive starts.

Bottom line, I don't agree at all that this signing makes Sutter redundant, but rather better rounds out the bottom half of the roster to let the youth focus on offense.

Kesler could produce offence. He's had multiple seasons with more than twenty and more than thirty assists, and yet his reputation was that he wasn't much of a playmaker.

Sutter has never broken twenty assists. He's also not "typically" good for around twenty goals. More like sixteen.

Perhaps we'll see a line with Pettersson in the middle, flanked by Eriksson and Virtanen, and they'll get to focus on offence. I'd like to see that.

(Pettersson and Virtanen are the only "youth" I can project on the team at forward, without any trades between now and the season's start, as the three UFA signings don't leave room for more. The rest of the youth will do their developing in Utica.)

 

[alternate]

Uhhh they signed Schaller to be the 4th line C and Beagle as the 3rd line C. Sutter is going to be the 2nd line C, like it or not.

Doubt it. Sutter will be one of the higher minute forwards because I expect him to srill be the top match up option. He'll continue to be used in the traditional "3rd line" way.

Beagle will center a 4th line that actually gets regular ice time, heavily slanted to defensive zone starts and PK (I expect).

Schaller is versatile depth who will probably play with Beagle, unless Beagle and Sutter play together.

Only way I see Sutter being used on an offensive line is if it's something like Goldoblin-Sutter-Pettersen where Sutter is the defensive conscious and retrieves pucks, defers to his linemates and goes to the net. This would let Goldy and EP handle the puck while on the attack. I don't expect this to happen, unless either the line just clicks in preseason, or there's no other acquisitions and Gagne/Gaudette/EP fail to grab the 2C slot.

 

[Lindgren]

Uhhh they signed Schaller to be the 4th line C and Beagle as the 3rd line C. Sutter is going to be the 2nd line C, like it or not.

Did Benning or someone else with the Canucks say that today? I missed it if they did.

 

[sting101]

I don't agree with the mindset that one defensively competent center is adequate. For that reason I like this signing, despite it being a year or two too long. I mean even when we had Malhotra getting 70+% defensive zone starts (or whatever it was) we still had Kesler who was near-Selke level + Burrows who was one of the top defensive wingers in the league. Yes Manny freed up Kesler so he didn't have to take the heavy matchups, but we still had multiple defensively competent options.

Compare that to last season, where our 2nd best option was Bo. Bo was our best offensive center and playing with our best offensive weapon. Bo is also not a great defensive player (improving every season but not even on Sutter's level yet, never mind prime Kesler or Manny). Going into the offseason I felt adding another bottom 6 center to *share* the heavy lifting with Sutter was a priority. Leaving contracts out of the equation Beagle was one of the better options available. Contract isn't great, but he should help stabilize play in our zone.

I also don't think this means Sutter will now be deployed as an offensive player. They complement each other re: handedness so they'll probably see DZ starts depending on which side the faceoffs are on. Sure Benning was spit balling about possibly Sutter seeing more offensive zone starts, but he also said that would be Green's call, and Green used Sutter correctly imo last season. Simply having another good option will likely mean Sutter will see less defensive starts, and this team needs him to get back up around 20 goals like he typically does so tjat should help. But imo it doesn't mean Sutter is no longer needed for match ups or defensive starts.

Bottom line, I don't agree at all that this signing makes Sutter redundant, but rather better rounds out the bottom half of the roster to let the youth focus on offense.

Good post alternate.
I really like what Beagle brings to this team. In terms of the signing i can't endiorse it but i certainly wont be unhappy having his character and play on the team. Beagle and Lars Eller on Washingtons bottom 6 was pretty exceptional. Sutter and him can be really good suppporting Pettersson and Horvat and his ability to play RW may help Gaudette when he's ready.

 

[Kryten]

Uhhh they signed Schaller to be the 4th line C and Beagle as the 3rd line C. Sutter is going to be the 2nd line C, like it or not.

Thats how I see it right now. No Gaudette, no Pettersson unless theres injuries either. Enjoy Gagner as the 2nd line RW everyone, its been a blast

 

[Melvin]

I canot believe so many people don't realize that we are literally doing the same thing we did three off-seasons ago. Jay Beagle is Brandon Prust.

 

[Hit the post]

I canot believe so many people don't realize that we are literally doing the same thing we did three off-seasons ago. Jay Beagle is Brandon Prust.

Prust was pure trash. At least Beagle is a decent 4C.

 

[alternate]

Kesler could produce offence. He's had multiple seasons with more than twenty and more than thirty assists, and yet his reputation was that he wasn't much of a playmaker.

Sutter has never broken twenty assists. He's also not "typically" good for around twenty goals. More like sixteen.

Perhaps we'll see a line with Pettersson in the middle, flanked by Eriksson and Virtanen, and they'll get to focus on offence. I'd like to see that.

(Pettersson and Virtanen are the only "youth" I can project on the team at forward, without any trades between now and the season's start, as the three UFA signings don't leave room for more. The rest of the youth will do their developing in Utica.)

Not sure what Kesler's offence has to do with anything, only referenced him to show we had more than Manny when it came to defensively capable centers.

Re: Sutter's goal scoring, his last 4 seasons he has scored: 21 in 80 games; 5 in 20 (20 goal pace); 17 in 81 games; and 11 in 61. So yeah, I expect 15-20, likely closer to 20. If he gets that while still be our top matchup center, that's a useful piece.

Your Pettersen line I also like. My hope/expectation is that we will go with more of a top 6/bottom 6 this season, with the top 6 heavily slanted to OZ starts. Sutter will hopefully provide 15-20 goals, and Beagle 10+. Decent start for the bottom 6.

 

[DL44]

I am serious. You say he won't be playing games for the Canucks. What do you think he'll be doing?

You obviously don't understand his contract with us expires when he's 36.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Beagle seems like a quality guy and he does bring good intangibles to the team. He got more money and term than I would like, but I'm pulling for him to show he was worth both of those things.

 

[Lindgren]

You obviously don't understand his contract with us expires when he's 36.

Someone beat you to it. More importantly, what sort of contribution do you see him making in the final year of his contract?

 

[Lindgren]

Not sure what Kesler's offence has to do with anything, only referenced him to show we had more than Manny when it came to defensively capable centers.

Re: Sutter's goal scoring, his last 4 seasons he has scored: 21 in 80 games; 5 in 20 (20 goal pace); 17 in 81 games; and 11 in 61. So yeah, I expect 15-20, likely closer to 20. If he gets that while still be our top matchup center, that's a useful piece.

Your Pettersen line I also like. My hope/expectation is that we will go with more of a top 6/bottom 6 this season, with the top 6 heavily slanted to OZ starts. Sutter will hopefully provide 15-20 goals, and Beagle 10+. Decent start for the bottom 6.

You were the one who brought up Kesler. The problem that people see with Beagle, obviously, is not that he's good defensively but that, like Sutter, he offers so little offensively. The Canucks don't need another centre who produces so little in attack.

A friendly wager, with nothing at stake: I say Sutter won't score more than 16 goals in 18/19. You're saying, what, 18 or more? Injuries void the bet, of course.

I'll also say that yet again he'll have fewer than 20 assists.

 

[Laterade]

 

[Canucks1096]

I am hoping with this signing Horvat will get easier Matchup and a lot more offensive zone starts and less PK time if any. Since Horvat came to the nhl Canucks are trying turn him into a 2 way Selke center. That was never really his game. He is just solid defensively and not elite. He is not really great at killing penalties as well.

 

[turkulad]

Beagle is much more of a Malhotra than a Prust. The term and NTC are disappointing but probably necessary to land him.

Roussel is a pill much harder to swallow. Beagle actually fits a need, rebuilding team or not.

 

[alternate]

You were the one who brought up Kesler. The problem that people see with Beagle, obviously, is not that he's good defensively but that, like Sutter, he offers so little offensively. The Canucks don't need another centre who produces so little in attack.

A friendly wager, with nothing at stake: I say Sutter won't score more than 16 goals in 18/19. You're saying, what, 18 or more? Injuries void the bet, of course.

I'll also say that yet again he'll have fewer than 20 assists.

I agree with the assists, and I will take the bet but I want something to be at stake. 16 goals or less, I owe you 3 likes; 18 or more, you owe me 3. 17 goals or <75 games played, bets a push.

Beagle's offense has to be measured against the player he replaces. He will be a 4th liner. That's 10ish minutes a night give or take PK time. That's not a role that's going to provide much scoring, especially when those minutes will be skewed to the defensive side of the ice. Replacing the Dowds/Gaunces/Archibalds of the lineup with the ~10 goals/20 points Beagles should provide won't hurt our offense. Heck, it's probably an improvement from what we've had on the 4th line lately.

Improved scoring needs to come from the continued maturing of Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi, Virtanen and Goldoblin; the emergence of Petterson and Gaudette; and the blueline. If Sutter can put up 18 from the "3rd" and Beagles can put up 10 from the "4th" (assuming no significant PP time) then our scoring from the bottom 6 will probably be adequate.

 

[Lindgren]

I agree with the assists, and I will take the bet but I want something to be at stake. 16 goals or less, I owe you 3 likes; 18 or more, you owe me 3. 17 goals or <75 games played, bets a push.

Beagle's offense has to be measured against the player he replaces. He will be a 4th liner. That's 10ish minutes a night give or take PK time. That's not a role that's going to provide much scoring, especially when those minutes will be skewed to the defensive side of the ice. Replacing the Dowds/Gaunces/Archibalds of the lineup with the ~10 goals/20 points Beagles should provide won't hurt our offense. Heck, it's probably an improvement from what we've had on the 4th line lately.

Improved scoring needs to come from the continued maturing of Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi, Virtanen and Goldoblin; the emergence of Petterson and Gaudette; and the blueline. If Sutter can put up 18 from the "3rd" and Beagles can put up 10 from the "4th" (assuming no significant PP time) then our scoring from the bottom 6 will probably be adequate.

It's a bet. You have to be the one who remembers.

 

[arttk]

I agree with the assists, and I will take the bet but I want something to be at stake. 16 goals or less, I owe you 3 likes; 18 or more, you owe me 3. 17 goals or <75 games played, bets a push.

Beagle's offense has to be measured against the player he replaces. He will be a 4th liner. That's 10ish minutes a night give or take PK time. That's not a role that's going to provide much scoring, especially when those minutes will be skewed to the defensive side of the ice. Replacing the Dowds/Gaunces/Archibalds of the lineup with the ~10 goals/20 points Beagles should provide won't hurt our offense. Heck, it's probably an improvement from what we've had on the 4th line lately.

Improved scoring needs to come from the continued maturing of Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi, Virtanen and Goldoblin; the emergence of Petterson and Gaudette; and the blueline. If Sutter can put up 18 from the "3rd" and Beagles can put up 10 from the "4th" (assuming no significant PP time) then our scoring from the bottom 6 will probably be adequate.

I am willing to bet that Beagle will be the 3rd line C by default (not because of injuries) and he is going to get around 15 minutes per game.

 

[Fire Benning]

Oh god, I had a dream last night that the Canucks committed 12 million dollars over 4 years to a 33 year old 4th line center with a limited no-trade clause. Thank god there’s no way that actually could’ve happened though.

 

[Cogburn]

Man, Benning could have signed a life time contract at league minimum with Tavares, and some of you people would still be hating.

The guys a terrible manager, but Beagle fills a need, and only cost us a resource we still have in abundance. Y'all need to chill out. The world hasn't ended.

 

[Love]

So not a bad deal i suppose and this must mean Sutter on his way out which is needed

You really think Benning would trade a guy who he thinks is one of our most valuable assets? There's absolutely no way, for two reasons:

1) Benning sees Sutter as "foundational." He's a part of the plan, the future, the core. Benning wants him around the young guys and thinks he's a key member of this team's identity.

2) Because of reason #1, Benning WAY overvalues Sutter. How the hell could he trade a guy who he has a completely unrealistic evaluation of? Benning would ask for a tremendous overpayment and other teams would laugh, knowing Sutter's true value is minimal.

 

[Melvin]

I predict that Beagle will be far worse than everyone is expecting, and we will want to buy him out after his first season but be unable to because of his asinine bonus-laden contract.